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In reply to the discussion: Is "rape culture" responsible for child rape, incest and pedophilia? [View all]Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)149. Does this help?:
Here's what Dr. Allen Frances had to say on the topic. He was the overall editor of DSM-IV and IV-TR:
Am J Psychiatry 165:10, October 2008
Issues for DSM-V: Unintended Consequences of Small Changes: The Case of Paraphilias
Allen Frances
Although DSM-IV-TR includes many close judgment calls, it contains only one out- right mistake: in criterion A of the paraphilia section. The unintended consequences following what we thought was a small wording change provide a cautionary tale for DSM-V. The mistake arose from the decision to add the following criterion to most disorders in DSM-IV: the disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. This was a reminder that the symptom criteria alone are insufficient to define mental disorder (1). In the paraphilia section, the new wording replaced DSM-III-R criterion B, which had set the significance threshold based on either acting on the urges or experiencing distress (see Table 1 for pedophilia criteria). Furthermore, criterion A was amended (by adding behavior along with fantasies and urges) to emphasize that it is behavior that most typically brings individuals to clinical attention.
The reworded definition resulted in two unanticipated problems. First, conservative religious groups mistakenly worried that the change meant DSM-IV did not recognize pedophilia as a mental disorder unless it caused dis- tress (24). To eliminate this misinterpretation, the original DSM-III-R criterion B was reinstated in DSM-IV-TR for those paraphilias involving nonconsenting victims (i.e., pedophilia, voyeurism, exhibitionism, frotteurism, and sexual sadism) (5).
The minor adjustment in criterion A caused more serious problems. The addition of or behaviors led some forensic evaluators to conclude that sexual offenders might qualify as having a mental disorder based only on their having committed sexual offenses (e.g., rape). In many states with sexually violent predator statutes, the diagnosis of mental disorder is necessary to trigger indefinite civil psychiatric commitment for sexually violent offenders after their prison terms are completed. The constitutionality of these statutes hinges on the requirement that the sexual offenses are caused by a mental abnormality. Although the mental abnormality mentioned in the statutes is defined by state legislature and is not equivalent to any DSM disorder, the courts have acknowledged the importance of DSM diagnoses in the determination of whether the statutorily defined mental health criteria are satisfied (6). The revised criterion A word- ing has sometimes been used to justify making a paraphilia diagnosis based solely on a history of repeated acts of sexual violence, which is then argued as satisfying the statu- tory mandate for the presence of a mental abnormality (7, 8). This certainly was never our intent in DSM-IV. Defining paraphilia based on acts alone blurs the distinction be- tween mental disorder and ordinary criminality. Decisions regarding possible lifelong psychiatric commitment should not be made based on a misreading of a poorly worded DSM-IV criterion item.
Allen Frances
Although DSM-IV-TR includes many close judgment calls, it contains only one out- right mistake: in criterion A of the paraphilia section. The unintended consequences following what we thought was a small wording change provide a cautionary tale for DSM-V. The mistake arose from the decision to add the following criterion to most disorders in DSM-IV: the disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. This was a reminder that the symptom criteria alone are insufficient to define mental disorder (1). In the paraphilia section, the new wording replaced DSM-III-R criterion B, which had set the significance threshold based on either acting on the urges or experiencing distress (see Table 1 for pedophilia criteria). Furthermore, criterion A was amended (by adding behavior along with fantasies and urges) to emphasize that it is behavior that most typically brings individuals to clinical attention.
The reworded definition resulted in two unanticipated problems. First, conservative religious groups mistakenly worried that the change meant DSM-IV did not recognize pedophilia as a mental disorder unless it caused dis- tress (24). To eliminate this misinterpretation, the original DSM-III-R criterion B was reinstated in DSM-IV-TR for those paraphilias involving nonconsenting victims (i.e., pedophilia, voyeurism, exhibitionism, frotteurism, and sexual sadism) (5).
The minor adjustment in criterion A caused more serious problems. The addition of or behaviors led some forensic evaluators to conclude that sexual offenders might qualify as having a mental disorder based only on their having committed sexual offenses (e.g., rape). In many states with sexually violent predator statutes, the diagnosis of mental disorder is necessary to trigger indefinite civil psychiatric commitment for sexually violent offenders after their prison terms are completed. The constitutionality of these statutes hinges on the requirement that the sexual offenses are caused by a mental abnormality. Although the mental abnormality mentioned in the statutes is defined by state legislature and is not equivalent to any DSM disorder, the courts have acknowledged the importance of DSM diagnoses in the determination of whether the statutorily defined mental health criteria are satisfied (6). The revised criterion A word- ing has sometimes been used to justify making a paraphilia diagnosis based solely on a history of repeated acts of sexual violence, which is then argued as satisfying the statu- tory mandate for the presence of a mental abnormality (7, 8). This certainly was never our intent in DSM-IV. Defining paraphilia based on acts alone blurs the distinction be- tween mental disorder and ordinary criminality. Decisions regarding possible lifelong psychiatric commitment should not be made based on a misreading of a poorly worded DSM-IV criterion item.
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Is "rape culture" responsible for child rape, incest and pedophilia? [View all]
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
OP
Maybe when you've been here for more than a couple of weeks we'll all be able to discern ...
11 Bravo
Mar 2014
#34
you are right on. and it is really this simple. it will take us a long ways. i guarantee. nt
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#17
and there are many many that are like tons more insightful and would find your shallow
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#52
really? firstly, most dont really care. they are not so awfully impressed with young men like you.
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#56
16? 18? so, no, you are not out of highschool. i really did not know i was wasting my time
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#70
Yeah, men who care whether their sexual partners are consenting or not, are just uncool losers...
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#188
out of control libido, sounds like rape justification, not even rape apology. nt
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#67
there you go. but then, we have had many, lol, in this very short time. and ya. nt
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#74
then he says, the young men that can, are dorks... and his like make sure they let them know
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#69
These stupid "every rape is the fault of every male" threads devolve quickly and inexorably
Doctor_J
Mar 2014
#98
omg.... you are with me dude. i am all over the young guy that is dissing men right and left
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#128
Should we conclude from your post that you do not consider women to be part of our
Squinch
Mar 2014
#104
What does a woman need to do to "earn" the respect to not be sexually objectified and/or assaulted?
antigone382
Mar 2014
#164
So yes or no, is "rape culture" about promoting/accepting incest and pedophilia?
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#32
You don't seem to understand that something can be taboo, even against the law...
Zenlitened
Mar 2014
#48
Do you think that incest is a rare crime? Because it isn't and the estimates are
Squinch
Mar 2014
#118
Some people need to lay off the dualistic thinking. And I don't mean you.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#192
Actually, after a long conversation, I realized that he has no trouble understanding that
Squinch
Mar 2014
#198
Maybe child rape will stop if we do something to stop it. But we have a culture that is not
Squinch
Mar 2014
#113
I don't think that any number of people committing child rape and not being prosecuted will convince
Squinch
Mar 2014
#145
Thanks you for actually providing something other than an opinion or a wild claim
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#147
You do know that your arguments can also be characterized as opinion or wild claims, right?
Squinch
Mar 2014
#150
I am thinking of at least two DuPonts who have gone to jail relatively recently for murder.
Squinch
Mar 2014
#159
It's connected, at least, by the idea that it's okay to exploit/victimize others.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#189
Yes and yes. I'm no doctrinaire Marxist, but I can't help but see rape as, in part, an example of
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#195
Sheer brute violence... plus a judicial culture willing to explain away rape. -n/t
Zenlitened
Mar 2014
#30
when the victims character is questioned more than the perpetrator's character
La Lioness Priyanka
Mar 2014
#13
So the Du Pont guy being a incestuous pedophile is due to "rape culture", or his getting off?
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#24
Why is it so hard to understand that sexual abuse/violence in general is ultimately connected
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#202
I think it is just that they are blinded by astonishingly infantile self-centeredness.
Squinch
Mar 2014
#123
Maybe its because this whole topic with a Du Pont heir as example is fucking silliness
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#152
A man rapes a 3 year old and gets off because incarceration would be uncomfortable for him.
Squinch
Mar 2014
#156
Maybe it "generates more heat than light" because some insist on taking everything personally
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#213
Yeah, that was over the top. I do get too emotional on here from time to time.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#245
And of course, condoning prison rape undermines the struggle against all sexual violence.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#217
Even if the crime itself isn't (entirely) controllable, the collective societal response to it is.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#216
What Rape Culture -IS- responsible for = Minimizing the effects that those actions
Tuesday Afternoon
Mar 2014
#80
So does our culture think that the rape of a 3 year old is "Just Not That Big of A Deal"?
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#81
I think there may have been other reasons the Du Pont heir got a slap on the wrist
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#103
Do you understand that Rape Culture is a contributing factor in all this? Do you understand
Tuesday Afternoon
Mar 2014
#110
you might want to edit your last sentence for comprehension. Peace Out.
Tuesday Afternoon
Mar 2014
#127
It's all rooted in the idea that the stronger has the right to exploit the weaker.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#218
"To them it's not what's right or wrong, but what they can get away with."
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#221
Exactly. The collective response to sex crimes is more indicative of cultural attitudes than such
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#220
So because the church heirarchy of a minority religion protected the priests, the US has a
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#106
Why, in a pro-child-rape society, are so many child-rape cases prosecuted with people jailed?
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#139
because they look the other way too often, give up because it is difficult to get an arrest.
bettyellen
Mar 2014
#207
And you really believe this is the only time something like this has happened?
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#228
Even if we acknowledge that attitudes toward rape often *are* overly permissive, how does that
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#233
Why are so many not prosecuted and so few people jailed for such short sentences?
Squinch
Mar 2014
#161
Why are people prosecuted at all if we support/forgive/promote child rape as a whole?
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#166
I see you are reduced to the old, "I know you are but what am I" gambit? How unfortunate for you.
Squinch
Mar 2014
#185
if rape culture includes the idea that men can't control their own dicks then yes
elehhhhna
Mar 2014
#94
ya. that would be the promoted evo psych that some want to create as a legitimate science. though,
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#111
"only occurs when the perpetrator is rich as almighty fuck." wrong. you are not listening. it is
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#114
well then. i guess you made clear to everyone, you really do not want to hear. bah, my ass.... nt
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#119
stuebenville, missouri, calif, connecticut, canada.... then there is the individual judges
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#131
wow. basically your Op was a bullshit game. what a fuggin waste of time. not surprised though.
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#140
When a incestuous Du Pont heir is used as a lighting rod for "rape culture"...
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#142
you say only the rich. it is proven not only the rich and you back pedal. your argument is a fail
seabeyond
Mar 2014
#143
And why are you so invested in believing that there isn't a serious problem here?
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#227
For a culture that "dictates that it is not acceptable to victimize children"
thucythucy
Mar 2014
#169
Which tells we dont need a culture to promote crimes in order for them to exist
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#209
And just because its not always easy to prosecute, doesn't mean there is some cultural reason
NoOneMan
Mar 2014
#206
What you say is very likely true of the stereotypical "dragged into the bushes" sort of rapist.
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#232
I dont think the mental illness of pedophilia has anything to do with rape culture anymore than
stevenleser
Mar 2014
#215
This isn't a yes or no question. Rape culture does not need to account for all rapes to be real.
Gravitycollapse
Mar 2014
#226
No, but Rape culture is to rapists as the Catholic Church was to pedophile priests...
Hippo_Tron
Mar 2014
#229