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In reply to the discussion: Mass Shooter influenced by the "Men's Rights Movement" [View all]TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)164. Maybe I should have been more specific.
Do you have any evidence for all the statements your making? But, if your going to base your argument on this page...
1. THE CLAIM Mens rights activists often insist that men are victimized by sex crimes and abuse just as much as women are, if not more.
A. "often" - What constitutes often?
B. Which MR activists? ALL of them!?
C. The Wikipedia article on the topic references a number of studies, including a meta-analysis John Archer from the Department of Psychology, University of Central Lancashire, UK, who writes:
The present analyses indicate that men are among those who are likely to be on the receiving end of acts of physical aggression.[7] The extent to which this involves mutual combat or the male equivalent to "battered women" is at present unresolved. Both situations are causes for concern. Straus (1997) has warned of the dangers involvedespecially for womenwhen physical aggression becomes a routine response to relationship conflict. "Battered men"those subjected to systematic and prolonged violenceare likely to suffer physical and psychological consequences, together with specific problems associated with a lack of recognition of their plight (George and George, 1998). Seeking to address these problems need not detract from continuing to address the problem of "battered women."[35]
Is this study correct? It should require a great deal of examination by experts in scientific methodology to assess. I could be wrong, but I doubt you and I would qualify for the task.
2. THE CLAIM In another effort to show that men are discriminated against, many mens rights activists assert that women attack men just as much as men attack women, if not more.
A. Is this true? Again, Wikipedia shows numerous studies both for and against - depending on the page visited.
3. THE CLAIM Close to half or even more of the sexual assaults reported by women never occurred.
A. Is this true? Again, Wikipedia lists a number of studies - all ranging from 2% to 90%. If you are going to base your beliefs on one of these, you would have to answer to why you picked that one.
As to your other statements...
----------------
1. MRA ideology in general is rationalization for their own perceived failings in life. -- No evidence presented.
2. It is a fact that PUAs are part of the Men's Right's movement. -- again, no evidence presented.
3. "but when <these> organizations promote hatred" -- again, no evidence presented.
And a question:
What specifically IS Neo-Nazi ideology? -- No response.
-----------------
Look... I'm just playing devils advocate here - but you really should be more fact oriented when discussing these issues. If your going to make declarative statements, then at least be prepared to defend them when challenged. Without factual support, your statements can appear emotional, biased, and non-objective - and even with facts, one must be careful to not cherry pick only the bits of the data that supports one's argument, but the totality of data. This is very difficult to do, especially so with emotional topics such as this one, which is why one must be extra-determined to drive in the spikes of logic instead of allowing one to be swept away with internal emotional biases.
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when the Southern Poverty Law Center declared them so... along with the white supremacists,
hlthe2b
May 2014
#14
I don't put anyone on ignore either, no matter how repulsive their behavior. Not only
IrishAyes
May 2014
#267
I trust that if the SPLC had meant to say all MRA groups hate women...
ConservativeDemocrat
May 2014
#224
Just a group that engages in "threat, overt or implicit, of violence" towards women, says SPLC
hlthe2b
May 2014
#176
When he crashed a party drunk, picked fights and tried push women off a ledge he complained that
bettyellen
May 2014
#201
McCarthyists told me in my youth that I should check under my bed every night for communists.
IrishAyes
May 2014
#270
I'm glad that being a "bitter old man in your 50s," is water off a duck's back to you
villager
May 2014
#56
Actually, this thread is about your particular views on "the Men's Right Movement"
villager
May 2014
#66
So, "bitter single woman in her 30's" would be okay by you, if it was used in the "right" thread
villager
May 2014
#70
I'm not here defending MRAs. My point was about the exedient use of stereotypes
villager
May 2014
#76
"the real problem is that MRAs are being exposed for the hate groups they are. "
IrishAyes
May 2014
#271
Just pointing out that the shooter thought he had a right to date certain females
AngryAmish
May 2014
#140
Isn't it interesting that a thread about a man who murdered women for not wanting him
redqueen
May 2014
#120
Men in their fifties are not "old men" (though they might be "bitter"), as you will one day learn.
WinkyDink
May 2014
#122
I watched it too and it seemed like he was trying to act - his laugh was like an imitation laugh.
seaglass
May 2014
#29
this shooter appears to be the epitome of the entitled and angry white guy to me.
bettyellen
May 2014
#22
yes, his reminiscence of childhood is that everyone is happy and no one has advantages....
bettyellen
May 2014
#45
he self identified as "white" and complained when an "Indian man" with an old Honda had the nerve to
bettyellen
May 2014
#162
he identifies himself as white, and wrote many bigoted things about darker skinned people
bettyellen
May 2014
#276
you don't think he has a right to self identify as white? is this the % of blood rule or something
bettyellen
May 2014
#280
Obviously they are both mentally ill, and both very cruel people who acted with intent.
bettyellen
May 2014
#51
I'd be careful about using the word "defend." Trying to parse someone's motive isn't the same thing
nomorenomore08
May 2014
#92
I agree it's a shame, how this contributes to the stigma against those with "differences"
nomorenomore08
May 2014
#98
Yes, very likely someone with strong sociopathic/psychopathic traits. Nothing to do with autism. n/t
nomorenomore08
May 2014
#101
Sure. But antisocial personality disorder seems a far more likely factor than Asperger's. n/t
nomorenomore08
May 2014
#185
I'm sure that you and I both agree that......such a gentleman DOES NOT. EVER. nt
AverageJoe90
May 2014
#28
Maybe so. But it doesn't dent the validity of the article, though, regardless of her intentions.
AverageJoe90
May 2014
#27
This post, I agree with 100%. The "movement" is built on resentment and fear of an entire gender.
nomorenomore08
May 2014
#103
There is no correlation. OP has an agenda. MRAs aren't the nicest bunch, but this is
Katashi_itto
May 2014
#234
Yours is the interesting agenda. Especially when it's been pointed out repeatedly it's false.
Katashi_itto
May 2014
#236
Lol, telling me what my are motives now. You've been cited repeatedly that the MRA is not a hate
Katashi_itto
May 2014
#240
You just like making things up don't you? Now according to you I am censoring stuff.
Katashi_itto
May 2014
#242
It's funny that when an MRA afficianado goes out and in cold blood murders people
Tsiyu
May 2014
#263
if I am understanding correctly Yes, HE accepted them but THEY rejected him.
Tuesday Afternoon
May 2014
#213
He complained about other men being 'brutes', but he sounds like a bully himself.
Ash_F
May 2014
#216
In his demented mind that made sense. Yes. Sounds crazy to the rational person but, insane people
Tuesday Afternoon
May 2014
#37
He imagines those other guys are brutes, because of course, a woman can't be happier w/ someone else
bettyellen
May 2014
#57
Well, for one thing..the girls turning him down saw something that proved to be evil. nt
kelliekat44
May 2014
#46
Three uses of the word "emotional" as a pejorative while arguing with a feminist
YoungDemCA
May 2014
#170
there is a lot of cross over in the groups- both pretty much hate women and blame them for their own
bettyellen
May 2014
#54
yes, it goes with objecification because they long for the days when we were property
bettyellen
May 2014
#160
his manifesto says he learned this from his peers- he was desperate to be a "cool" kid and tried to
bettyellen
May 2014
#195
LOL, you seem to have me confused with your manservant. LOL. And I guess you are right- if you only
bettyellen
May 2014
#205
the one where you imagine that this PUA shit is normal. or all "deceptions" equal. YAWN.
bettyellen
May 2014
#229
So you do not believe that society should adress it's ills when confronted by them?
etherealtruth
May 2014
#72
Right, I think the problems here are mental illness, uncontrollable hatred,
IronLionZion
May 2014
#77
If women are "allowed to choose who to breed with, humanity will never advance"
BainsBane
May 2014
#115
How the fuck does a guy work himself up to this kind of wholesale destruction?
nomorenomore08
May 2014
#109
Sheltered upbringing + obvious psychological problems + "MRA" sense of victimization.
nomorenomore08
May 2014
#132
This author of the article is more concerned about their own agenda than the truth
davidn3600
May 2014
#187
I'd think that also accurately applies to posters who subtly attempt to minimize, or even deny the e
LanternWaste
May 2014
#282
I read the guys manifesto, watched the videos. Wonder what went wrong with this guy.
stevenleser
May 2014
#226
what I want to know is, why are we raising young men with such a misplaced sense of entitlement?
redruddyred
May 2014
#260