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Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)

27. Actually, 'faith' is invisible and knowable only by the individual

Mon Jun 16, 2014, 04:44 PM

Jun 2014

What others can see are actions. And yes, most people use religious rhetoric to cloth their own opinions with an air of the divine. 'Well, I'm a Christian, so I am against equality for those people, God is in the mix, it is not MY opinion, it is God's. Do you disagree with God?'
Those who announce their own holiness do so with agenda. Jesus himself said those who make public noise about their 'faith' are all hypocrites.
People who really see a thing as sacred do not drag it to the marketplace. They do not sully it by using it as a device of their own human agenda. Folks who do drag things into the marketplace make those things commodities, lacking all sacredness and they open those once sacred things to be treated as mere politics.
I was raised in Churches that taught that to exploit the divine for one's own agenda is the sin known as 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit' and it is called in Scripture the one unforgivable error. 'Vote for me because of Jesus' is heresy in a religious context and un-American in a political context.

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Why do we consider "faith" to be a virtue? [View all] MindPilot Jun 2014 OP

I don't. Anymore. nt thereismore Jun 2014 #1

"We" don't. MineralMan Jun 2014 #2

"We" as in the very generalized cultural-societal sense. MindPilot Jun 2014 #35

This is very specifically a religious concern and probably belongs in the religion forum el_bryanto Jun 2014 #3

I think this is specifically about politicians talking about their faith, really. n/t djean111 Jun 2014 #21

Yes - but it's moving more towards general principals and not just Hillary's statement. nt el_bryanto Jun 2014 #24

Agreed. Raine1967 Jun 2014 #34

Be nice if our poltical leaders would follow that advice. n/t MindPilot Jun 2014 #36

No shit... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #80

This is very specifically a political issue and belongs right here. Warren Stupidity Jun 2014 #75

This isn't the religion forum. You don't get to just pound on people until they leave. el_bryanto Jun 2014 #76

No it isn't, but nice try... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #81

Bullshit. el_bryanto Jun 2014 #82

Ah, I see, 'public figures...heads of state' are not political leaders... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #84

They are not specific political leaders el_bryanto Jun 2014 #85

Are you using hyperbole or asking some dude named Jesus that question? truebrit71 Jun 2014 #86

Hyperbole. I'm sorry if I confused you - I guess I assumed you were smart enough to el_bryanto Jun 2014 #87

Speaking of being smart enough to figure things out... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #89

Faith and religion are the same subject in this context. Or I can't imagine why they wouldn't be. el_bryanto Jun 2014 #90

I have faith the sun will raise in the east tomorrow... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #94

So you don't see this (from the OP) as a question about religion? el_bryanto Jun 2014 #98

No. Religion is not the same thing as faith. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #105

Thanks for the dictionary definition. I have to admire your commitment to pretense. el_bryanto Jun 2014 #109

Shouldn't you be off somewhere whining about being oppressed or something? truebrit71 Jun 2014 #117

And the cherry on the top. el_bryanto Jun 2014 #118

..and yet someone that has a handle exactly like that whines about it... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #119

I wonder who you are talking about? el_bryanto Jun 2014 #120

Where you can gang up on people and stifle dissent? truebrit71 Jun 2014 #121

Oh I don't participate in the Religion Forum anymore el_bryanto Jun 2014 #122

not eternal torture, perhaps. but at least a phaser on kill or a photon torpedo perhaps. unblock Jun 2014 #4

Your punishment will be assignment to the away team. MindPilot Jun 2014 #41

The Agony Booth sarge43 Jun 2014 #44

Mr. Kyle... Octafish Jun 2014 #140

I have no idea. elleng Jun 2014 #5

"we" don't.... mike_c Jun 2014 #6

+1. closeupready Jun 2014 #9

Many of us don't. nt eppur_se_muova Jun 2014 #7

I guess because it means they are optimistic and hopeful. Rex Jun 2014 #8

Was Osama Bin Laden edhopper Jun 2014 #13

That Repubican candidate who says his Christianity allows for stoning gay people to death.... Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #18

If they are optimistic and hopeful that the End Times are near, they won't plan for the future. arcane1 Jun 2014 #37

Take a good long look around at this current society... Moostache Jun 2014 #48

So following that argument Goblinmonger Jun 2014 #83

That could be the perception of many in the general public. ZombieHorde Jun 2014 #135

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Rex Jun 2014 #137

if one person believes something bizarre, they're nuts. If enough people believe it... NightWatcher Jun 2014 #10

YOU MEAN KIRK'S NOT REAL!!?? Rod Beauvex Jun 2014 #11

An opiate of the masses, as it were. [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2014 #30

Slow down. There really is a Captain Kirk: icymist Jun 2014 #69

I bet he got tease alot for that. Rod Beauvex Jun 2014 #73

The media accepts anyone's faith in anything edhopper Jun 2014 #12

But if you say Sulu is important to you, they deny your rights and say God wants you to suffer.... Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #14

And that's all there is to faith? really? el_bryanto Jun 2014 #16

Actually, 'faith' is invisible and knowable only by the individual Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #27

"Vote for me because of Jesus' is heresy in a religious context..." YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #93

faith is a private matter noiretextatique Jun 2014 #114

The United States of America is, overall, and extremely religious nation. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #15

Yet another problem with this country...as if we don't have enough anyway! Moostache Jun 2014 #51

More accurately, faith is merely trust in that of which we do not have absolute knowledge LanternWaste Jun 2014 #17

To me there's a big difference in acknowledging a general lack of absolute knowledge Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #26

Belief in imaginary red and blue lines on a map restricting both us and others seems pretty far out LanternWaste Jun 2014 #28

But don't you believe in the existence of the brutish Gerrymander? Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #29

There is no proof at all that god exists. You know other drivers exist! nt Logical Jun 2014 #33

I see all the god bother as part of the smarminess of American political life RainDog Jun 2014 #19

Boy that's the truth...The Winan's etc... randys1 Jun 2014 #108

he's hitting those high notes RainDog Jun 2014 #113

Anti-intellectualism and belief in magical nonsense have been venerated in U.S. culture for decades. Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #20

Archie Bunker said the same thing: waddirum Jun 2014 #62

The happy horseshit YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #97

Indeed, but threads like this and conversations like this are helpful and rare. randys1 Jun 2014 #110

I'm not a religious person but I believe as Al Gore has stated in his book "The Assault on Reason" Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #22

Big MINUS to me. blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #23

I consider it to be a weakness. Whisp Jun 2014 #25

Who is "we"? I don't. n/t MadrasT Jun 2014 #31

people have all sorts of notions about faith, not restricted to any one belief bigtree Jun 2014 #32

+1 Jamaal510 Jun 2014 #43

thank you bigtree Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #78

Very simple and to the point YoungDemCA Jun 2014 #99

but they ARE trying to impose their views on us noiretextatique Jun 2014 #115

+1. SammyWinstonJack Jun 2014 #124

The religious have a big lobby and have convinced a great many that having faith rhett o rick Jun 2014 #38

I don't. alarimer Jun 2014 #39

Agreed. And more than being about power, per se, MindPilot Jun 2014 #42

I don't consider it a virtue. nt City Lights Jun 2014 #40

Faith and gullibility are the same. The only difference is whether you want it to sound good or bad. Towlie Jun 2014 #45

Thanks for calling 80% of likely Democrat voters gullible. moriah Jun 2014 #68

same reason we go out doors instead of windows every time? #Hume MisterP Jun 2014 #46

For Christsakes, NO! AAO Jun 2014 #47

I know it's not politically correct, but AAO Jun 2014 #49

my favorite definition of faith-- Hoppy Jun 2014 #50

Definitions: Fred Gilmore Jun 2014 #52

I do not consider "faith" to be a virtue !!! SamKnause Jun 2014 #53

Faith is a construct not related to religion. Sting sang about it in one of my favorite songs. ancianita Jun 2014 #54

There's enough straw in that post to make a broom. rug Jun 2014 #55

Completely agree with you mainer Jun 2014 #56

all comments about the overzealous religious traditions of this country aside, maybe it's because... 0rganism Jun 2014 #57

I don't. Cant speak for everyone though. nt abelenkpe Jun 2014 #58

Perhaps because telling 80% of teh world they're delusional is unwise n/t Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #59

As a believer I don't look to the faith of my elected officials or candidates. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #60

"I don't face the prospect of eternal torture if I fail to adequately worship Kirk." Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #61

Basic politics, it isn't rocket science. Egnever Jun 2014 #63

Because the majority of the people who live in our culture LostOne4Ever Jun 2014 #64

it's majority rule Skittles Jun 2014 #65

At this point it's a pledge of cultural normalcy. DirkGently Jun 2014 #66

Maybe alleged "faith" shouldn't be enough. flvegan Jun 2014 #67

Okay, okay. I'll add to the chorus: We? Iggo Jun 2014 #70

To be fair LeftyMom Jun 2014 #71

I don't. nt m-lekktor Jun 2014 #72

And one more aspect -- Le Taz Hot Jun 2014 #74

Been Asking That Question For Years, Taz ProfessorGAC Jun 2014 #125

And to the point of the OP which is more virtuous? truebrit71 Jun 2014 #128

I have faith Puzzledtraveller Jun 2014 #77

Good question. I think it actually exposes a deep character flaw rather than being a 'strength'... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #79

So I as a believer have a deep character flaw? hrmjustin Jun 2014 #88

A believer in what? truebrit71 Jun 2014 #91

Personally I am an Episcopalian. I don't condemn anyone to hell. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #96

No, but your God does... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #101

Not the God I believe in. I believe in a loving God. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #102

So not the Biblical God then? truebrit71 Jun 2014 #103

Yes I prefer the loving God of Christianity. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #104

So never mind all of the bad shit and wicked temper tantrums he had in the old testament... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #106

Yes pretty much. Jesus is the focus of Christians. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #112

But Jesus created hell and said that people will be sent there. Humanist_Activist Jun 2014 #123

What character flaw? rug Jun 2014 #126

The ability to believe the unbelievable... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #127

Sorry but I can't accept there is no God. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #129

See, that sounds 'funny' to me... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #131

well I respect your experience but I don't feel a weight on my sholders as a believer. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #132

You have to take the weight off first... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #134

Without that "character flaw" no one would vote. rug Jun 2014 #130

But it is "logical" to blindly follow the unknown? truebrit71 Jun 2014 #133

That thought is entirely within your mind. rug Jun 2014 #136

Ahh, so apparently a believer in "god" is the rational one... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #138

Judging by this exchange, yes. rug Jun 2014 #139

I'm sorry, but who was it that said, in this very thread in fact, that "condescension".. truebrit71 Jun 2014 #142

Why yes it was. On the other hand, accuracy is a virtue. rug Jun 2014 #143

So other than being hoisted by your own petard... truebrit71 Jun 2014 #144

I got the etymology of petard. rug Jun 2014 #145

To describe you? truebrit71 Jun 2014 #146

Not me. You'll have to excuse me now. I must step back. rug Jun 2014 #147

It's not, but... NuclearDem Jun 2014 #92

Religion has existed from the beginning of cultures treestar Jun 2014 #95

It's pretty obviously not seen as such around here BainsBane Jun 2014 #100

Faith is the cheapest commodity out there, in every sense of the word "cheap." stopbush Jun 2014 #107

There is absolutely nothing virtuous about 'faith' amuse bouche Jun 2014 #111

Carl Sagan's movie "Contact" was pretty interesting aint_no_life_nowhere Jun 2014 #116

Because Gods, politicians, and salesmen of hair products say it is. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #141