General Discussion

Jamastiene

(38,206 posts)

273. How can we ever fight institutional racism if we do not discuss

Fri Jul 11, 2014, 12:44 AM

Jul 2014

cause and effect? That is exactly where the disconnect is happening. If we do not discuss cause and effect, how can we ever find common ground and find a way that gives equality to everyone?

Personally, I learn more by listening to what people who are different than me tell me that they experience in their lives than I do by telling them how wrong they are. You can't really learn if you don't learn to listen to them. You cannot experience what they experience or know what it is like for them. The best you can do is share your experiences, listen to what they are telling you about their experiences and work together to come up with a solution that provides equal chances for everyone. That is the problem. Everyone doesn't have an equal chance. Everyone isn't treated equally.

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Bye-bye, whiny white dudes: Tucker Carlson, Tal Fortgang and the weakening grip of entitlement [View all] DonViejo May 2014 OP

They're all going down and nothing can stop it. randome May 2014 #1

+1 Enrique May 2014 #2

+1 lunasun May 2014 #51

I wouldn't call it whining. badtoworse May 2014 #3

it's an exaggerated preoccupation with one's self-worth Enrique May 2014 #5

Framing the issue as privilege creates a conflict that cannot be resolved. badtoworse May 2014 #14

Let me ask you ... ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #23

The wealthy person's situation is a little more complicated badtoworse May 2014 #28

What if you JustAnotherGen May 2014 #50

"Does that shift the prism? " badtoworse May 2014 #85

one trouble is with the "sense of accomplishment" hfojvt May 2014 #261

I can't disagree with anything you posted badtoworse May 2014 #262

I don't know JustAnotherGen May 2014 #270

so you're saying ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #52

I said the bar should be set higher if you are wealthy badtoworse May 2014 #83

"...can't justify a sense of self worth and accomplishment." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #133

The big lie Cartoonist May 2014 #29

I would not say ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #54

As if a white lily could grow out of thin air Supersedeas May 2014 #267

If your white parents are in a department store and steal something and walk out the door next to jtuck004 May 2014 #36

"Because it could be resolved tomorrow if white people would quit giving other white people a pass nomorenomore08 May 2014 #135

There's some truth to that. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #200

Since this is all about you ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #214

that's the point...these things actually happen Supersedeas May 2014 #269

first of all "creates a conflict" Enrique May 2014 #55

It's about winning people over to your side. badtoworse May 2014 #90

What you call "pushing the 'white privilege' meme" others call redqueen May 2014 #110

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #121

The framing should be that all of us should enjoy the same basic level of respect and opportunity. badtoworse May 2014 #156

Institutional racism is the BIGGEST factor we face. bravenak May 2014 #160

You have your opinion and I have mine. badtoworse May 2014 #175

Ha! bravenak May 2014 #181

Hmmm ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #186

Thats what i got from it. bravenak May 2014 #188

Uncomfortable has nothing to do with it. badtoworse May 2014 #211

Sure. bravenak May 2014 #212

"Besides that, I'm concerned it could get ugly..." nomorenomore08 May 2014 #250

Actually, I was thinking of something completely different badtoworse May 2014 #257

Okay, I was being excessively snarky. But what you present as a cause is really more of a symptom. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #258

How can we ever fight institutional racism if we do not discuss Jamastiene Jul 2014 #273

Additionally ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #107

And some here work very hard to push the idea that wealth/class is all that matters. redqueen May 2014 #111

that narrow-mindedness about what restricts us as a nation is confining Supersedeas May 2014 #249

Your reason is cramping an agenda -nt Bonx May 2014 #116

So? badtoworse May 2014 #119

So don't give in :) Bonx May 2014 #152

They were probably still better off than black kids at the same economic level, I have to say. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #132

And having been born in years when capital had much less power and inequality-- eridani May 2014 #236

It's the mark of a narcissist to take everything personally. Now, most young people are probably nomorenomore08 May 2014 #140

Isn't it really ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #9

I believe there are better ways to frame the issue. badtoworse May 2014 #18

People have been talking nicely and politely about oppression for decades. redqueen May 2014 #20

We'll just have to disagree about whether "white privilege" is going to accomplish anything. badtoworse May 2014 #21

Mirror time! ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #118

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS redqueen May 2014 #124

It's always telling, which "side" a person seems to sympathize with, isn't it? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #138

What do you think I'm defending? badtoworse May 2014 #144

True ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #145

*facepalm*. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #204

Cosign. bravenak May 2014 #210

all this talk about framing. I'd like to take a picture of these DUers using that tactic and Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #22

the animosity is already there. derp. that you don't recognize it will be your downfall. Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #24

that's an important point Supersedeas May 2014 #266

I see what you're saying. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #11

You still just do not get it. nt redqueen May 2014 #15

many are missing the boat entirely Supersedeas May 2014 #268

As a ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #17

Did you have a problem with it? redqueen May 2014 #19

My reply to that OP: AverageJoe90 May 2014 #26

Yep. And yeah there's frustration, and it's real, but it is meaningless. redqueen May 2014 #32

And? And? AverageJoe90 May 2014 #39

You're seriously comparing the phrase "white privilege" with violence and hate. redqueen May 2014 #42

I didn't even say anything about "white privilege" in that post. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #44

Just what is it that you think Tap Fortgang was whining about? redqueen May 2014 #48

"Your disingenuousness is so tiring." I could say the same for you, after what you just pulled. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #78

Not to mention ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #151

Yeah, disgusting but hardly surprising. redqueen May 2014 #153

Correction ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #150

"Stop white washing Malcolm!!!" You might wanna tone it down a notch.....no offense. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #155

It does TBH. bravenak May 2014 #157

Unity is all well and good, but not at the expense of other things (like being truthful). n/t nomorenomore08 May 2014 #170

Those hostile to full civil ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #173

"Those hostile to full civil ...and human rights of Black people;" Well, I'm not, for one. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #174

Yes, you are and yes there are ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #182

"Yes, you are". Please tell me you're not serious about this shit. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #185

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #189

"so yes, you oppose Civil Rights for all people" Then I'm afraid you don't know jack about me. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #191

I know you by what you write ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #194

"I know you by what you write ..." Given what you've said, no, you clearly don't. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #196

My bad, I mistyped ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #215

..... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #219

Can you deny that a system of white supremacy would include ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #225

"Can you argue that racism is not about white supremacy?" I never have. EOM AverageJoe90 May 2014 #229

Now respond to the rest of the post. eom. 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #232

Maybe you should stop 'suggesting' things in that patronizing way. bravenak May 2014 #183

"It may help you in the discussion to have a little humility." AverageJoe90 May 2014 #187

You are the one. bravenak May 2014 #190

If I thought that begging and pleading would get you to PLEASE stop participating in threads on race Number23 May 2014 #218

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #224

So YOU are having to explain to US, the poor miseducated Negroes here, how racism works? Number23 May 2014 #237

Do you not understand how hard it is for him to have to tell you over and over how wrong you Squinch May 2014 #259

I know. Apparently what everyone needs is a white man to explain their life experiences to them Number23 May 2014 #264

The stubbornness of that one, in his insistence that he knows all about the experiences of Squinch May 2014 #265

The only utterly confused person in this thread ... kwassa May 2014 #246

You literally just told him to "watch his tone." Jamastiene Jul 2014 #274

now there's a rhetorical device...whitewashing Malcolm Supersedeas May 2014 #247

Intentionally Applied. eom 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #248

K&R nt redqueen May 2014 #4

I see Salon has stooped to the racist name-calling propaganda Corruption Inc May 2014 #6

That "racist bullsh!t" IS an "actual problem" ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #10

+1,000... DonViejo May 2014 #13

wonder how much these whiny white dudes will like the solution? Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #25

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #40

That may be BIGOTRY; but it's NOT racism ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #46

It is pathetic how many people refuse to understand this. redqueen May 2014 #49

I responded the other day ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #59

I guess even though it seems pointless sometimes, it is worth explaining it over and over. redqueen May 2014 #80

Only problem is, that's not quite true. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #114

There is literally nothing better than white men who explain racism and sexism redqueen May 2014 #120

Oh, boo hoo. A fellow feminist disagreed with you on the Internet. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #122

Why not explain racism some more? redqueen May 2014 #123

" Why not explain racism some more?" I was thinking the same thing of you, TBH. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #125

I'm not your "amiga". redqueen May 2014 #128

"You may think you're convincing, but TBH, you're the opposite." I'm sorry you feel that way. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #130

I noticed that too, LOL. Must be the Varshta effect... bettyellen May 2014 #146

I dunno, maybe. redqueen May 2014 #154

Noticed it as well. There is one that is basically a parody of a feminist, and I am sure bettyellen May 2014 #159

I didn't see any fellow feminists disagreeing with her. Where did you see that? Squinch May 2014 #260

Especially when they tell you they have saved a place on the back of their bus for us..... bettyellen May 2014 #147

Honestly, this is pure baloney. PURE baloney. EOM AverageJoe90 May 2014 #199

I have had enough of your unfounded personal attacks Joe- stop stalking me and calling me a liar. bettyellen May 2014 #201

I didn't say or imply you were necessarily lying, TBH. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #202

this is the third time you but yourself into another conversation to call me a liar.... bettyellen May 2014 #205

"Your attention is hostile and unwelcomed. Got it?" I could've said the same to you. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #207

Just FYI pipoman May 2014 #206

Gotta love jurors who confuse calling out sexism WITH sexism. LOL. Bravo, juror #7. bettyellen May 2014 #209

See 114. There is a difference between personal & institutional racism. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #115

We have had that argument before ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #131

Don't you just hate it when a white woman... DonViejo May 2014 #12

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #45

Soviet Bear says Capt. Obvious May 2014 #16

It's a white privilege beatdown Supersedeas May 2014 #184

Neither of these guys are really that culturally significant or smart pscot May 2014 #7

Let 'em sit in their own soiled diapers Blue Owl May 2014 #8

You will probably be the first person I put on ignore Harmony Blue May 2014 #27

Why? HangOnKids May 2014 #31

K & R ! Coventina May 2014 #30

"The weakening grip of entitlement"- oh really? LittleBlue May 2014 #33

+1 deutsey May 2014 #34

I see your point. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #41

Why is it so difficult for you to see the wedge already exists 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #73

"Why is it so difficult for you to see the wedge already exists" Never said it didn't. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #82

And yet ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #112

I'm afraid if if either of the two of us holding up the status quo, unknowingly or not...... AverageJoe90 May 2014 #113

Okay. eom. 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #126

Yes it is. bravenak May 2014 #129

I prefer country bread rolls myself.....with a side of sawmill gravy. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #134

Dangit Joe!! bravenak May 2014 #136

Nope ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #139

We have one of those too. bravenak May 2014 #141

I'm pretty sure every family has at least one ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #142

Just stop it. You're pontificating on subjects you obviously know very little about. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #169

I'm sorry you feel that way. I really am. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #171

Would it be maybe worth asking *why* your views conflict with theirs? nomorenomore08 May 2014 #172

It has to do with practicality, to be honest. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #176

Okay, I understand. I think it's more the (possibly unintentional) know-it-all-tone that rubs people nomorenomore08 May 2014 #179

I think I see where you're coming from. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #203

See, as a white guy, I pretty much take for granted that people of color know what they're talking nomorenomore08 May 2014 #234

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #239

This here shows you know nothing of the Black experience ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #217

"And please stop with that Black exhibiting "personal racism" crap." AverageJoe90 May 2014 #233

Please explain how a PoC will/could possibly NOT be affected by structural racism. eom 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #235

Still waiting ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #238

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #240

I guess about now you are realizing just how vacuous ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #244

Funny you should mention Tim Wise ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #216

You claimed your views were "fact-based" in contrast to BainsBane May 2014 #223

I'm sorry, but you REALLY need to get with the program. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #228

No ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #195

Excellent point. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #198

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #35

Seriously. The Democratic party needs to pander to the tea bagging white dudes! I'm SErIES!!!!!!1111 uppityperson May 2014 #37

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #43

Ah, so don't call teabagging white dudez whiny? What "middle ground" should the Dems go for? uppityperson May 2014 #47

I'm digging in JustAnotherGen May 2014 #53

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #60

LOL...suuuure cyberswede May 2014 #61

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #68

"There is no such thing as white male privilege"? Uh. Huh. Why spend this amount of time and energy uppityperson May 2014 #69

Probably because they see other DUers saying the same thing, and not getting PPRd. redqueen May 2014 #74

Boom! Tuesday Afternoon May 2014 #84

"White privilege pushers" is the new term BainsBane May 2014 #197

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #77

Uh. Huh. Poor white dude, being picked on so much for having privilege pointed out. uppityperson May 2014 #79

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #86

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. WhiteStraitDudezRule! uppityperson May 2014 #87

There's no white privilege, we just own the society and you should thank us for it arcane1 May 2014 #89

Oh thank you massa for the society you done created so us black disabled lesbians can get welfare!!! uppityperson May 2014 #93

Indeed, it's one small step away from "they were better off as slaves" arcane1 May 2014 #97

quit being so mean!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uppityperson May 2014 #99

I can't help it, I'm a white Uncle Tom. Or Cousin Tom or whateverthehellitis. arcane1 May 2014 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author redqueen May 2014 #102

Your impotence is showing arcane1 May 2014 #88

What an utter pant load. cyberswede May 2014 #91

would a hidden post help? uppityperson May 2014 #96

LOL... cyberswede May 2014 #105

That is good, I hate risking my alerting status unnecessarily. uppityperson May 2014 #108

This message was self-deleted by its author cyberswede May 2014 #101

Should I kiss your feet or something? greatauntoftriplets May 2014 #94

LOL, yet another one Skittles May 2014 #98

Are you a MO moderate? cyberswede May 2014 #72

Silly you, thinking this was about "the best interest of white males" when it's actually about bettyellen May 2014 #75

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #92

oh noes!Are you going to stomp off now?"You've already insulted me enough and worn out my good will" uppityperson May 2014 #95

LOL, I needed a microscope to find your "good will" and it was indeed stunted and teensy. Reminded bettyellen May 2014 #100

And all it took was five posts! greatauntoftriplets May 2014 #106

Here, have a mojito! greatauntoftriplets May 2014 #62

! cyberswede May 2014 #64

Good day for one! greatauntoftriplets May 2014 #76

! uppityperson May 2014 #65

I'll drink to that! arcane1 May 2014 #81

are you saying you are a "White Male IndieTeaPublicans"? uppityperson May 2014 #63

On the way! cyberswede May 2014 #66

Congratulations JustAnotherGen May 2014 #67

Doubtful you were a useful ally at all. bettyellen May 2014 #71

Mmm hmm cyberswede May 2014 #38

Dang, someone alerted on him. uppityperson May 2014 #58

Not me either JustAnotherGen May 2014 #70

"our culture doesn’t generally encourage boys to feel compassion or curiosity beyond.... bettyellen May 2014 #56

it's necessary to read Fortgang's article to appreciate this Enrique May 2014 #57

So true, I can't imagine defending this BS after reading his original piece. Both the college rag bettyellen May 2014 #103

+1 uponit7771 May 2014 #104

Tal Fartgag Blue Owl May 2014 #117

I didn't like his piece so much either. AverageJoe90 May 2014 #127

They read it and they agree with it. Starry Messenger May 2014 #149

That little dipshit is jewish MattBaggins May 2014 #180

Patriarchal bullshittery. undeterred May 2014 #137

You'll have to forgive me. I don't think telling any group or race 'bye' and gleefully... Shandris May 2014 #143

you are forgiven for misunderstanding this was about whiny RW bullshiters who happen to deny that bettyellen May 2014 #158

I absolutely agree. Shandris May 2014 #161

Oh, the sensationalistic "Bye Bye!"? Yeah, I never thought it was about any violent overthrow, just bettyellen May 2014 #162

Yah, you hit. Sensationalism in headlines is one of those things that really hits my... Shandris May 2014 #163

Well, Tucker is probably going to go all in with the idiocy if Hillary runs. They are really paving bettyellen May 2014 #165

While it does leave me a little behind in some DU conversations... Shandris May 2014 #167

That's exactly what it meant and that is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. redqueen May 2014 #164

Yes, ad nauseum indeed. Shandris May 2014 #168

Speaking of entitlement.....look in the mirror. nt AverageJoe90 May 2014 #208

Post removed Post removed May 2014 #241

Nobody was ever asking him to apologize for being white bluestateguy May 2014 #148

We can't say goodbye soon enough. nt. Jasana May 2014 #166

White Dude entitlement won't go away even if the Tuckers are silenced Supersedeas May 2014 #177

White privilege is real, common, and never more practiced randys1 May 2014 #178

But on the white right .. let's not try to make some equivalency here! YOHABLO May 2014 #192

Huh? All white people in America are privileged, right or left randys1 May 2014 #193

But we ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #221

Here let me finish your thought ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #220

lol HOW true randys1 May 2014 #243

Oops, used the wrong words ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #245

What is so sad about this DonCoquixote May 2014 #213

Excuse me, is this today's bash White people / bash men thread? Skip Intro May 2014 #222

No it's point out privilege day ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #226

I see. It isn't all White men we hate, just some. Guess we just use the broad labels Skip Intro May 2014 #227

Is "whiny white men" a broad label? cyberswede May 2014 #230

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2014 #231

The "whiny white dudes" are stepping and fetching for Big Money. Orsino May 2014 #242

So are we supposed to hate white males? SaltyBro May 2014 #251

Why on earth would you leap to that conclusion? cyberswede May 2014 #252

So all white males are privileged? SaltyBro May 2014 #253

What are you talking about? cyberswede May 2014 #254

Maybe white males should have their voting privilege revoked SaltyBro May 2014 #255

Oh. I see you're not interested in a sincere conversation. cyberswede May 2014 #256

No. Only those who consider themselves superior by virtue of their skin color. nomorenomore08 May 2014 #263

The whiney white dudes are alive and well BainsBane May 2014 #271

There is nothing that shows a weakening grip at all. Katashi_itto May 2014 #272