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betterdemsonly

(1,967 posts)

37. The fact that they shot down Ukrainian military aircraft

Fri Jul 18, 2014, 05:18 PM

Jul 2014

does not prove they shot a civilian non-ukrainian airplane. The hostilities are on both sides. The Ukrainians do have the capability to shoot down the plane. There is much fascism on both sides as well. Evidently the great hero of the Ukrainian side was an actual nazi sympathizer.

White supremacist banners and Confederate flags were draped inside Kiev’s occupied City Hall, and demonstrators have hoisted Nazi SS and white power symbols over a toppled memorial to V.I. Lenin. After Yanukovich fled his palatial estate by helicopter, EuroMaidan protesters destroyed a memorial to Ukrainians who died battling German occupation during World War II. Sieg heil salutes and the Nazi Wolfsangel symbol have become an increasingly common site in Maidan Square, and neo-Nazi forces have established “autonomous zones” in and around Kiev.

An Anarchist group called AntiFascist Union Ukraine attempted to join the Euromaidan demonstrations but found it difficult to avoid threats of violence and imprecations from the gangs of neo-Nazis roving the square. “They called the Anarchists things like Jews, blacks, Communists,” one of its members said. “There weren’t even any Communists, that was just an insult.”

“There are lots of Nationalists here, including Nazis,” the anti-fascist continued. “They came from all over Ukraine, and they make up about 30% of protesters.

”

http://www.salon.com/2014/02/25/is_the_us_backing_neo_nazis_in_ukraine_partner/

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The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was the fraud that started the Viet Nam War [View all] betterdemsonly Jul 2014 OP

Gulf of Tonkin was a lie. There's really no disputing that the rebels did shoot down geek tragedy Jul 2014 #1

There is no disputing it was shot down betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #3

It is not "very much in dispute." ALL, and I mean ALL, the evidence geek tragedy Jul 2014 #5

What evidence? betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #7

Not my fault you have kept yourself unaware of the facts. geek tragedy Jul 2014 #12

Nobody ever hoaxed a website! betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #17

you are desperately clutching at straws in order to deflect blame geek tragedy Jul 2014 #19

You're projecting betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #21

This isn't like someone dropping a gun and shooting themselves. geek tragedy Jul 2014 #25

That would be a strawman n/t betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #27

still waiting for you to provide one single fact that calls into geek tragedy Jul 2014 #29

Innocent until proven guilty. betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #32

Here is a fact: geek tragedy Jul 2014 #33

The fact that they shot down Ukrainian military aircraft betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #37

Still waiting for your first fact supporting your thesis that the allegations geek tragedy Jul 2014 #38

I never presented such a thesis betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #40

if you say there is no evidence pointing at the rebels, then you are geek tragedy Jul 2014 #46

I don't think websites are good evidence. betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #48

and the fact that the only ones shooting at aircraft in the area in the area geek tragedy Jul 2014 #49

I don't know, but people in warfare do tend to be paranoid. betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #51

do you really claim that the fact that the rebels had shot down multiple planes geek tragedy Jul 2014 #53

No they don't betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #55

none so blind as those who will not see. geek tragedy Jul 2014 #57

+100 !!! (nt) PosterChild Jul 2014 #72

Remember geek.. "America is bad, too".. We can blame this on Obama somehow. It couldn't have Cha Jul 2014 #79

The conspiracy nuts are comparing this to Gulf of Tonkin. nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #81

Hate America First.. anything to distract from Putin's Fuckup. nm Cha Jul 2014 #87

And the psychological need to feel special geek tragedy Jul 2014 #88

So You Are Alleging The Plane Was Shot Down By U.S. Agency, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2014 #6

I don't know that it was shot down on purpose at all. betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #8

High-Test Barn-Yard Product, Sir, Pure And Undiluted The Magistrate Jul 2014 #10

Aparently you have a problem with democracy. betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #13

You have as much right to comment on this as Sarah Palin does. nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #16

That is really pathetic! betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #23

I have provided all of the facts in this discussion. geek tragedy Jul 2014 #26

No you just arrived at conclusions based on little evidence betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #30

Still waiting for you to provide a single fact that serves as evidence geek tragedy Jul 2014 #31

I don't have to present evidence that anyone other than team russia did it betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #35

There is plenty of evidence they did it. geek tragedy Jul 2014 #36

I don't expect your respect betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #42

Yes, even apologists for a rightwing dictator like Putin geek tragedy Jul 2014 #44

You're either with us, or with the Terrorist! n/t betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #45

hard to be a Democrat and support a rightwing oligarchical fascist geek tragedy Jul 2014 #47

Oh come off it betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #52

'the establishment Party"--who might that be? nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #54

The beltway Democrats and Republicans n/t betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #56

Bahahahaha. You just said all those things and then you said this! Bahahahaha! Squinch Jul 2014 #83

A Common Delusion, Sir: Democracy Does Not Mean Ignorance Is As Good As Knowledge The Magistrate Jul 2014 #64

"I don't know that it was shot down at all" geek tragedy Jul 2014 #15

You are so damn desperate to enforce order betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #20

I see, so someone bumped the radar-guided missile with their geek tragedy Jul 2014 #22

they need to verify who was on the phone magical thyme Jul 2014 #60

Not quite. There were two incidents. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #39

"Just cripple their economy with sanctions" - TBF Jul 2014 #66

No, cripple their economy to deter future geek tragedy Jul 2014 #69

Right. If Ukraine had no resources I might fall for that. nt TBF Jul 2014 #91

All the more reason to deter Russia from geek tragedy Jul 2014 #94

Nor do they belong to the EU/US - TBF Jul 2014 #96

Post your evidence, we have not seen any so far. I note that in the International media sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #85

And By This You Mean What, Sir? The Magistrate Jul 2014 #2

But..but.we can trust our government to never lie or distort anything. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #4

Vietman war was happening long before Tonkin. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #9

That is true. But phony Tonkin ''attacks'' were the excuse LBJ used to send in draftees. Octafish Jul 2014 #34

First attack was real... HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #50

Yup. Seeing how the USS Maddox was in North Vietnam's territorial waters... Octafish Jul 2014 #58

Hopelessly conflating past and present events without a tie-in isn't making your point. stevenleser Jul 2014 #11

Nope. zappaman Jul 2014 #14

Thanks for the history lesson. conservaphobe Jul 2014 #18

Not a very good one. nt Rex Jul 2014 #43

I'm old enough to remember the Tonkin lie gwheezie Jul 2014 #24

thanks for link to PBS video n/t handmade34 Jul 2014 #28

The first war between French-Indochina started in 1946 Rex Jul 2014 #41

a handful of Military Advisers is one thing imthevicar Jul 2014 #61

That lie got us into war, not Vietnam. former9thward Jul 2014 #63

There are quite a few Viet Nam vets alive still TBF Jul 2014 #68

One of my late HS classmates was KIA in VN in 1963 PeoViejo Jul 2014 #80

Remember the Maine!!11! Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #59

The Explosion Came from the inside. imthevicar Jul 2014 #62

Pearl Harbor a false flag? geek tragedy Jul 2014 #76

Not a false flag. Just avoidable. Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #84

Don't forget the innocent babies that Iraqi soldiers dumped out of the incubators RufusTFirefly Jul 2014 #65

Are you denying the plane was shot down, or trying to deflect geek tragedy Jul 2014 #86

911 Anyone? billhicks76 Jul 2014 #67

Oh by the way, I've cracked the code Warren DeMontague Jul 2014 #70

I Don't Watch Videos Here...no time billhicks76 Jul 2014 #73

Please enlighten us on the truth of MH17. nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #78

You Misinterpreted billhicks76 Jul 2014 #89

Ok. Peace. nt geek tragedy Jul 2014 #90

The truth is that Russian separatists shot geek tragedy Jul 2014 #75

Yeah I'm Real Afraid billhicks76 Jul 2014 #93

For every action there is a reaction og1 Jul 2014 #71

Which has nothing to do with the separatists shooting geek tragedy Jul 2014 #74

How about THIS for a reaction? Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #77

Really. You should post something about it, with some links betterdemsonly Jul 2014 #82

"Yes we do have neocon dems." Boy, do we ever. Neocon DUers too. Scuba Jul 2014 #92

And we have fascist DUers-- the ones who carry water geek tragedy Jul 2014 #95