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onenote

(45,963 posts)
32. You are apparently woefully ignorant of the Warsaw Ghetto
Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:06 AM
Aug 2014

The Holocaust and the Warsaw Ghetto were singularly horrific events and the repeated attempts by some DUers to equate Gaza to Warsaw are ignorant and sick. Period.

That doesn't mean the situation is Gaza is good. Indeed, it is intolerable. But that doesn't make referencing it in the same breath as Warsaw appropriate.

Some facts I'm going to assume you don't know.

Some 400,000 Jewish men, women, and children of Warsaw were forced into an area 1.3 square miles.

In the first two years after the Ghetto was established, 83,000 Jews died of starvation. Then, over a two month period starting in late July 1942 and ending in mid September 1942, the Germans loaded between 250,000 and 300,000 of the Warsaw Ghetto's inhabitants and sent them to the Treblinka death camps where they were put in gas chambers, ovens, or shot. In January 1943, the Germans started the trains again. But the Jews of Warsaw, having learned that the trains were not merely taking their fellow Jews to labor camps, but were taking them to extermination camps, rebelled. The purpose of the rebellion was not to defeat the Germans. The Jews knew that they would die fighting the Germans. They simply wanted to go down fighting. The Germans, initially frustrated in their effort to meet the quota of Warsaw Jews they were able to load onto trains, paused in their efforts for a couple of months. But in April 1943, they responded with an assault on the Ghetto in which they killed 13,000 and captured the remaining 56,000, all of whom were sent to Treblinka or Auschwitz to be exterminated.

Life in Gaza, both before and after the current conflict, was no picnic. It is a terrible place. But by every single measure, comparisons between it and Warsaw are bullshit. Gaza City, the most densely populated part of Gaza, has a population of around 500,000 in a 17 square mile area. It has a positive birth rate. It has an economy, with Gross Domestic Product. A luxury hotel was built in Gaza in 2011. It is listed on TripAdvisor. It is open to reporters. There were no reporters describing what went on in Warsaw. There were no hotels. No commerce. It did not have population growth. It had population decline, due to starvation and systematic murder without even the fig leaf of a military rationale. The Jews of Warsaw, both before and during the Ghetto period, were never a threat to German civilians. Even the resistance posed no threat to German civilians.

So, please, make the point that Gaza is a terrible place with terrible conditions and that Israeli policies must change. Just don't do it with the false meme that Gaza is in any way comparable to the Warsaw Ghetto. What Israel is doing is disproportionate. It also happens to be what armies unfortunately do in every war: kill innocents in the name of an ostensible military action. It is what the British did when they killed 25,000 Germans in Dresden. It is what the US did when it dropped atomic bombs on the civilian populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, causing the deaths of tens, if not hundreds of thousands of Japanese. Those actions were horrific and one can debate whether Truman and Churchill were "war criminals." But the actions of the Germans were not merely different from those actions as a matter of degree. What the Germans did was different in kind from what the British did, what the US did, and what Israel has done.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Again - HUH? malaise Aug 2014 #1
Yes, again . . . Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #3
Do you think Israel can respond without killing a shitload of civilians? n/t Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #5
This will depend . . . Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #63
'Human shields' is the new label for 'Palestinian civilians'? Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #73
How are they a 'shield' if you're going to just kill them? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #78
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaah so it's in the NYT malaise Aug 2014 #6
Then please link to the Malaise Times Dreamer Tatum Aug 2014 #42
The only credible source is . . . Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #61
The NYT? Lol! Judith Miller comes to mind. sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #41
Welcome to DU Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #2
Because Hamas wants more war and violence. Fozzledick Aug 2014 #4
Maybe all they want is for the worse than apartheid conditions to be malaise Aug 2014 #8
No, what they want is the total destruction of Israel. Fozzledick Aug 2014 #10
Actually, this war started when Israel used the kidnapped teens as an excuse to DanTex Aug 2014 #16
No, the war started when Israel withdrew from Gaza and Hamas kidnapped an Israeli Fozzledick Aug 2014 #40
LOL. You really do believe every single word of Likud propaganda. DanTex Aug 2014 #56
You couldn't be more wrong. Fozzledick Aug 2014 #81
You missed some important bits like the kidnap and murder of the Palestinian teen... Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #74
Why do you think people are buying these 'it's all Hamas' fault' talking points anymore? sabrina 1 Aug 2014 #48
"Hamas is better at the rules of war, avoid civilians as much as possible." Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #60
I think a closer to accurate point would be Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #80
You may well be right but in the meantime Israel's war criminal leader malaise Aug 2014 #53
Destruction of Israel is their goal yeoman6987 Aug 2014 #27
Yeh, sure. And firing these rockets achieves that how. HERVEPA Aug 2014 #31
Then why are they taking actions (rockets) that will only worsen their situation? Taitertots Aug 2014 #45
Hamas is not interested in peace. badtoworse Aug 2014 #7
not if peace means living in a warsaw ghetto dembotoz Aug 2014 #9
They've never had any goal other than the destruction of Israel and... badtoworse Aug 2014 #12
if i was there facing exterminatiion by israel i imagine i would feel the same dembotoz Aug 2014 #18
They don't want Gaza leftynyc Aug 2014 #21
You are apparently woefully ignorant of the Warsaw Ghetto onenote Aug 2014 #32
propaganda enid602 Aug 2014 #35
It's the diametric opposite of propaganda. It's historic and verifiable fact. stevenleser Aug 2014 #62
bibi enid602 Aug 2014 #64
Not Propaganda, Sir: Flat Fact The Magistrate Aug 2014 #76
Here's when it'd be acceptable to compare Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto... Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #77
prisons enid602 Aug 2014 #83
Absolutely fantastic post MrBig Aug 2014 #38
+ 10000. K&R. The anti Semitic bullshit is disgusting. nt riderinthestorm Aug 2014 #39
Unfortunately, those who need to read and understand this don't care. They WANT to hurt people. stevenleser Aug 2014 #59
Hear hear! n/t Mugu Aug 2014 #66
Nor is Israel n/t Violet_Crumble Aug 2014 #75
Perhaps because the ceasefire was over intaglio Aug 2014 #11
But can't they . . . Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #67
I don't know exactly, but the 300 children that IDF murdered might have something to do with it. DanTex Aug 2014 #13
Will firing rockets into Israel bring those children back? Will it prevent more children from being onenote Aug 2014 #33
What would be the downside to Israel not murdering civilians by the hundreds? DanTex Aug 2014 #57
300 more Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #68
Israel to pay students to defend it online Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #14
to rephrase judy collins--so send in the trolls....... dembotoz Aug 2014 #19
I've been here over a decade leftynyc Aug 2014 #22
It is interesting how many new people who only write posts defending Israel have popped up. Chathamization Aug 2014 #26
How funny coming from someone with 622 posts yeoman6987 Aug 2014 #30
So, a poster who’s been here a week with 100% of their 22 posts defending Israel is the same as Chathamization Aug 2014 #34
How many innocent Palestinians will die in Israels reprisal? el_bryanto Aug 2014 #15
If history is any judge . . . Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #69
hmmm - so in your assessment Israeli lives are worth more than Palestinian ones? nt el_bryanto Aug 2014 #72
That's how Hamas wins hearts and minds of the uninformed. egduj Aug 2014 #17
Agreed. N/t Calista241 Aug 2014 #20
+1000 leftynyc Aug 2014 #23
Agreed. n/t tammywammy Aug 2014 #25
yup...and the fall for Niceguy1 Aug 2014 #29
Nope. The rest of the world watches Israel inflict collective punishment on innocent Palestinians Maedhros Aug 2014 #55
Are we to assume it is true? kentuck Aug 2014 #24
Lol! bravenak Aug 2014 #28
I will blame Israel if they respond by murdering more civilians. Marrah_G Aug 2014 #36
In simplistic terms... Xolodno Aug 2014 #37
and what happens when attacks escalate in quality and quantity and there is no peace? TheKentuckian Aug 2014 #50
You are completely misunderstanding my post... Xolodno Aug 2014 #52
But what if . . . Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #70
Think about it... Xolodno Aug 2014 #84
they must have those worms in their heads Puzzledtraveller Aug 2014 #43
Why would they stop fighting when they have recieved nothing? dilby Aug 2014 #44
So Hamas must be completely satisfied or war goes on. Dreamer Tatum Aug 2014 #46
Isn't that what negotiations are about. dilby Aug 2014 #47
What is Hamas willing to concede to Israel? Dreamer Tatum Aug 2014 #49
this is their official statement from a few years back - but I believe the offer still stands Douglas Carpenter Aug 2014 #51
I suppose Hamas could concede more land Hugabear Aug 2014 #65
Some people have been saying that would happend Ahmed Aftab Aug 2014 #71
Because it is a religious war. That about sums it up. NCTraveler Aug 2014 #54
Welcome to DU, erm... "Ahmed" LittleBlue Aug 2014 #58
LOL!! nt m-lekktor Aug 2014 #79
Don't feed the...well, you know... regnaD kciN Aug 2014 #82
Troll already PPR'd by MIRT pinboy3niner Aug 2014 #85
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