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geek tragedy

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96. one can think of it as being a big step backwards without being racist.

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 02:04 PM

Sep 2014

but, love it or hate it or somewhere in between, it is not some unknown thing that barely registed in the public's consciousness.

The 2010 election was about Obamacare.

the 2012 election was about Obamacare.

The 2013 government shutdown was about Obamacare.

Its place in history as a high profile, well-known, famous/notorious/controversial piece of legislation is a matter of established fact.

It affects virtually every employer, every employee, every hospital, every medical device maker, many, many working poor, etc.

By itself, the expansion of Medicaid was a very big deal.

Its merit can certainly be denied, its importance and place in the public consciousness really can't be.

It's literally the most well-known piece of legislation in a generation. And it's got Obama's name fused with it.

The argument that he won't be remembered for it is utterly indefensible as a matter of empirical inquiry.

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Michael Moore is being crticized for racism, not policy commentary [View all] geek tragedy Sep 2014 OP

I don't know if he is a racist they way we... TreasonousBastard Sep 2014 #1

racism manifests itself in all kinds of ways geek tragedy Sep 2014 #3

Re: "clean and articulate" - are you calling Joe Biden a racist by definition? bullwinkle428 Sep 2014 #10

I don't disagree regarding Moore. vi5 Sep 2014 #2

policy criticism should be rebutted using policy arguments, not geek tragedy Sep 2014 #5

Correct. vi5 Sep 2014 #9

kind of like anti-semitism and Israel--just because some propagandists geek tragedy Sep 2014 #17

True. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #110

here, sadly yes. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #112

+1 Scuba Sep 2014 #147

So, President Obama will not be remembered as being the first black president? joeglow3 Sep 2014 #30

that is ONE thing for which he will be remembered. The point is that defining black people geek tragedy Sep 2014 #33

Then I think MM's point flew right over your hear joeglow3 Sep 2014 #47

No, this is just MM and his ilk playing the race card in order to attack the President. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #48

We will have to agree to disagree joeglow3 Sep 2014 #49

No, it's my view that Moore saying that Obama is nothing but the color of his skin is racist. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #51

I think you finally got him with that last post, geek tragedy brush Sep 2014 #66

No. I am just done pissing in the wind joeglow3 Sep 2014 #149

There was no need to bring in race . . . brush Sep 2014 #150

Ha. Everyone that criticizes Obama in any way is a racist. LexVegas Sep 2014 #4

thanks for the thoughtful contribution geek tragedy Sep 2014 #6

Did the OP say that? YoungDemCA Sep 2014 #24

Whoooosh Bobbie Jo Sep 2014 #31

Anyone who says that all Obama has accomplished is being the first black President is a racist. pnwmom Sep 2014 #39

The term has lost it's 840high Sep 2014 #84

Welcome to DU... SidDithers Sep 2014 #106

Great retort. Oh, and welcome back. You were missed. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2014 #128

Like Maher, whatever talent he had seems to be slipping. Reduced to insult humor. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #7

Glad someone else recognizes mimi85 Sep 2014 #54

I think that people decide that his comments are racist because they approve of President Obama's el_bryanto Sep 2014 #8

Even if you take racism out of the equation, what Moore said was, at the very least, very ignorant. randome Sep 2014 #11

Republicans will not remember him only as a black president. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #13

100 Years from now? el_bryanto Sep 2014 #18

Howard Taft is remembered for the bath tub incident Capt. Obvious Sep 2014 #23

Taft was the only person to be President and serve on the Supreme Court geek tragedy Sep 2014 #26

You knew that off the top of your head? el_bryanto Sep 2014 #27

we're talking two different things--criticizing americans for having a very shallow geek tragedy Sep 2014 #32

No but I also think if you boil down the President's accomplishments in office el_bryanto Sep 2014 #34

again, amongst whom, people who actually pay attention to policy or superficial ignoramuses geek tragedy Sep 2014 #36

The ACA is a tiny step forward el_bryanto Sep 2014 #37

The ACA is not 'tiny'--certainly not in terms of political importance and history geek tragedy Sep 2014 #42

OK we disagree on that - I hope that the ACA will be remembered as a tiny step forward el_bryanto Sep 2014 #94

one can think of it as being a big step backwards without being racist. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #96

"Utterly indefensible" - than why, in your opinion, would someone defend it? el_bryanto Sep 2014 #97

to drag his race into a discussion of his policies as a means of attacking him is racism. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #98

"As a means of attacking him" - that part doesn't make a lot of sense. el_bryanto Sep 2014 #104

but he's invoking it to reduce Obama to nothing more than that geek tragedy Sep 2014 #105

No it isn't - that doesn't make any sense. el_bryanto Sep 2014 #108

same shit, different pile. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #109

Well yes it is el_bryanto Sep 2014 #115

and my point is that one can call him a centrist squish (which I do!) without resorting to dragging geek tragedy Sep 2014 #116

It may be a tiny step forward to you... MoonchildCA Sep 2014 #58

Objectively false. Vermont passed single payer. joshcryer Sep 2014 #137

but JFK did have the love of a huge percentage of the populace BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2014 #73

Kennedy received a lower % than Obama did in the elections. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #74

Ohhhhhhh... BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2014 #76

happened before I was born. cultural wave is probably a good description though nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #81

it's not a period I've read up on, either. BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2014 #83

I Thought RobinA Sep 2014 #89

Again, the ACA, the most significant piece of social . . . brush Sep 2014 #72

Wilson is a great case in point, folks say 'WW1' and that's all they know. Wilson was a huge racist Bluenorthwest Sep 2014 #29

That's all accurate - and he apparently approved of the message of Birth of a Nation el_bryanto Sep 2014 #35

I remember it JustAnotherGen Sep 2014 #41

C'mon, the ACA will be remembered as the . . . brush Sep 2014 #68

"Has Obama done noteworthy and positive things as President?" If you answered "no", then... NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #15

poppycock belltower Sep 2014 #88

You don't think digging us out of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, pnwmom Sep 2014 #40

umm, that legislation was already passed before he took office belltower Sep 2014 #91

TARP was passed earlier. But the $800 million economic stimulus was passed under Obama. pnwmom Sep 2014 #107

huh? belltower Sep 2014 #122

That 832 million averted a far worse financial crisis and arrested the 400,000 monthly job losses pnwmom Sep 2014 #125

I guess getting OBL was mimi85 Sep 2014 #56

I agree treestar Sep 2014 #12

no you're wrong my friend belltower Sep 2014 #92

I don't think this latest point is racist, but the one about the 9/11 planes...yikes! Threedifferentones Sep 2014 #14

Let's put it this way: will Obama be remembered for Obamacare? geek tragedy Sep 2014 #19

Our economy was losing 400K jobs per month when Obama took office. pnwmom Sep 2014 #43

What is it with the Obama-no-accomplishments-but-first-black meme? brush Sep 2014 #79

You and a few others are making that claim Capt. Obvious Sep 2014 #16

Most of Obama's haters are fine with a certain level of racism. Cad Bane Sep 2014 #20

What he said was stupid, Obama will be remembered as a great POTUS. Rex Sep 2014 #21

I disagree with him on the substance--certainly I think when his full 8 years geek tragedy Sep 2014 #28

Ask 99% of Straight America what Harvey Milk did, they will say 'first elected openly gay man'. Bluenorthwest Sep 2014 #38

I remember him as a hero. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #44

Characterization is an editorial act. It is not the same as comprehension of content. Bluenorthwest Sep 2014 #50

true. point i was making is when a person makes a claim about future perceptions geek tragedy Sep 2014 #53

Moore's comments were not painting Obama as an heroic first. They were insulting, dismissive, MADem Sep 2014 #90

Exactly. Thank you, MADem. And the reaction from the miniscule number of black posters that still Number23 Sep 2014 #134

I don't think Michael Moore would like to be reduced to a single physical characteristic. MADem Sep 2014 #139

Everyone says stupid shit, rich or poor...famous or not so famous. Rex Sep 2014 #60

the cycle of detractors and cheerleaders forms kind of a dual orbit here geek tragedy Sep 2014 #63

True, we have a lot of fanpeople here and when one of their idols gets dissed Rex Sep 2014 #69

ISIL & Syria will gobble up the rest of his time belltower Sep 2014 #93

your concern is touching, please note that his presidency has been declared 'over' geek tragedy Sep 2014 #95

I'm criticizing Michael Moore for his willful ignorance and his racism.. he does this because he Cha Sep 2014 #22

Not only is that a ridiculous speculative claim on Moore's part YoungDemCA Sep 2014 #25

THANK YOU! MohRokTah Sep 2014 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author freshwest Sep 2014 #78

Hey Michael: Fat, Racist, and Wrong is no way to go through life son. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #46

Calling him fat? Well, that's...that's...pretty much equivalent to what he said about Obama. randome Sep 2014 #52

Hey ... Some of my best friends are fat! JoePhilly Sep 2014 #55

Yep. Being reduced to a single physical characteristic is ... what's the word? ...Dehumanizing!!! MADem Sep 2014 #138

Moore's comment was wrong, but this onslaught Union Scribe Sep 2014 #57

Why was it wrong? nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #61

Because Obama will be remembered for many things. Union Scribe Sep 2014 #65

maybe I should put it this way: why bring Obama's skin pigment into a discussion of policy? geek tragedy Sep 2014 #67

Isn't becoming the first black president Union Scribe Sep 2014 #80

becoming president is an accomplishment, but it's not an accomplishment as president. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #123

indeed stupidicus Sep 2014 #77

Well put. Thanks. riqster Sep 2014 #59

Up is down, black is white, war is peace. beerandjesus Sep 2014 #62

probably should actually read the post before commenting on it. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #64

I don't see that he used race to "frame an attack" G_j Sep 2014 #111

how is the president's race relevant to a discussion of his actions in office? geek tragedy Sep 2014 #113

he never connected the two G_j Sep 2014 #121

you are confused, I fear geek tragedy Sep 2014 #124

not confused G_j Sep 2014 #132

Thanks for the condescension. beerandjesus Sep 2014 #119

thanks for your thoughtful, constructive contributions to the discussion nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #120

There does seem to be an automatic dismissal of President Obama by many people. gordianot Sep 2014 #70

Good luck trying to sell that meme. NorthCarolina Sep 2014 #71

Paraphrased: 'The only thing memorable about this POTUS is his skin color' CakeGrrl Sep 2014 #75

Good post, CakeGrrl. nt brush Sep 2014 #86

Jesus Christ. No one will remember Obama for Lily Ledbetter, DADT, or the economy in 100 years. Dawgs Sep 2014 #99

Really? CakeGrrl Sep 2014 #126

I don't think he's a racist. 840high Sep 2014 #82

almost everyone is at least a little racist. main differential is self-awareness geek tragedy Sep 2014 #85

YES. His comment was racist. He should be ashamed of himself, but he probably isn't. MADem Sep 2014 #87

He does have introspection, but only in retrospect. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #101

I don't think you know what racism means. n/t Dawgs Sep 2014 #100

Maybe it's you who doesn't know what racism means. Cha Sep 2014 #135

For some, unless the racism comes in the form of "that word", it isn't really racism. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #102

+1. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #103

Thank you, BtA. nt sheshe2 Sep 2014 #127

Exactly.. they wouldn't know "racism" if it stared back at them in the mirror.. mahalo, BtA~ Cha Sep 2014 #129

Recently purchased flash cards for my kids that cover all of the US presidents abelenkpe Sep 2014 #114

No, if the card listed these as his accomplishments: geek tragedy Sep 2014 #117

K, still might look for some other ones though. nt abelenkpe Sep 2014 #118

Exactly, geek! Cha Sep 2014 #130

Pretty much. joshcryer Sep 2014 #143

Michael Moore's racism.. I want this for my journal, geek.. "God save us from such stupid men.." Cha Sep 2014 #131

K Cha Sep 2014 #133

His tweet doubling down is highly offensive to me. joshcryer Sep 2014 #136

Soft racism on display. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #140

I tweeted to him. joshcryer Sep 2014 #141

Good for you. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #144

Here's my tweet: joshcryer Sep 2014 #146

Oh, I'm sure you are truly outraged brentspeak Sep 2014 #151

I still support Michael Moore RandiFan1290 Sep 2014 #142

This message was self-deleted by its author Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #145

Pardon me for being a bit of a late comer here MrScorpio Sep 2014 #152

It's because of how people define "racism" gollygee Sep 2014 #148