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politicat

(9,810 posts)
24. Millions fewer cars, ultimately.
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 01:34 PM
Sep 2014

The reason I own a car is because it cannot drive itself. I use mine no more than an hour a day. The rest of the time, it's just taking up space in either my driveway or a parking lot. If I could have a share of a car, I would not own one. (That service is beginning to exist in my area, but it's not there yet. It's glorified Enterprise or Hertz, which isn't the point.)

Now imagine a car sharing service with autonomous cars and many people using the same car for the service. Abby goes to work at 7, the car picks up Brian at 7:30, drops him off, picks up Conan at 8, drops him off, picks up Dana at 8:30, then Edith at 9. Then it goes to get Frank for a doctor's appointment, then Gennie for grocery shopping, then Henry for lunch, then Irina from school for a piano lesson, then Jess for basketball then Kim for dinner out then Lee for an evening shopping trip then Mike from happy hour then Nat from a date. Another car picks up Frank at 11, Gennie at 2, Abby at 4, Brian at 5, and so on. The cars are never in a parking lot until middle of the night service. The people use them for transportation, then dismiss it and it goes on to next job.

It costs $9k a year to own a car. Our local bus passes are $960 a year. If you assume a car fare for an autonomous service is around $5 a use, a single user commuting is going to be about $3500 a year -- but couple an autonomous service with multi-modal transit (walking, biking, transit) and cost to user will be less than a car for fewer cars over all. Most households in the US are not efficiently sharing cars -- each adult has one, and that car spends most of its time sitting parked.

Parking lots are an enormous cost, not only to business (because parking lots must be based on highest demand rather than average use, that's why 95% of parking lots are 80% empty 90% of the time --they have to build for Black Friday, not Tuesday at 10:30), but environmentally and socially. A giant parking lot is a moat. It physically divides communities and makes walking difficult and they exist entirely for the convenience of the car, not the people. They contribute to the heat island effect in cities, and they're terrible for rain water and ground water since they're non-permeable and usually made of petroleum. The parking lot model of business development makes walking, biking and public transit more difficult and less attractive.

An autonomous system will also have the option of special request vehicles. I need a truck about three times a year. I need my hatchback (I drive a Soul) about once a month. The rest of the time, I need one seat. If I were one of my siblings, I might need two or three seats on a regular basis (sibs have kids; I don't), but an autonomous system can have highly efficient, one person units, or two or three, or six seaters. 85% of all car trips in the US are one person, going under 10 miles. We should build our traffic structure for most common, but instead, we've built it for trucks carrying tons of cargo and buses going 300 miles with 80 passengers. It's bad design, and suburbanization, the cul de sac and street-road hybrids have made the bad design necessary. (Note that this stuff didn't exist until 50 years ago. This is not how we built cities for 5000 years.) the bad design is the result of cars. Change the ways cars behave, and the bad design becomes a tragic footnote in civil engineering, much like Brutalist architecture or Victorian Gothic.

Recommendations

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The self driving cars will be safer than the texting while driving cars. Todays_Illusion Sep 2014 #1
I agree but I believe they will displace millions of middle class jobs. CK_John Sep 2014 #2
What will be the standard of measuring a human's value if it is not on the value of their labor? Todays_Illusion Sep 2014 #3
I don't understand your question? CK_John Sep 2014 #6
What jobs? I can't imagine what jobs would be displaced? NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #4
I would thing UPS and most 18 wheelers, taxis alone would be a very large group. CK_John Sep 2014 #5
Trucking, delivery, bus driving. Just to name three off the top of my head. politicat Sep 2014 #7
I think some of the first uses will be over the road truckers. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2014 #8
Spain is testing convoys of 15 18 wheelers with only a driver in the lead truck. CK_John Sep 2014 #10
And I think that's the worst place to start. politicat Sep 2014 #13
+1 nt MADem Sep 2014 #30
you are addicted to this whole self-driving-car thing LOL snooper2 Sep 2014 #15
Tunnel vision blocks out 99% of the big picture. CK_John Sep 2014 #17
Self driving car only gets tunnel vision if relays #3, #17 and rear#9 fail snooper2 Sep 2014 #20
Let me try to answer, the technology is here, it will have great social change. CK_John Sep 2014 #21
So when we get ice storm here in DFW can I tell my self driving truck to drift down Plano Parkway? snooper2 Sep 2014 #22
Its up to the auto companies to present their products, this OP is about the politics. CK_John Sep 2014 #25
As does an irrational obsession... LanternWaste Sep 2014 #26
How so is it any different from thinking if Sanders will run as an IND or not? CK_John Sep 2014 #31
And the introduction of the gas powered automobile hurt the blacksmiths. Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #9
But the timing of the introduction of this technology melds with the 2016 elections. CK_John Sep 2014 #12
And the timing of the U.S. auto industries development coincided with the Taft/Parker elections... LanternWaste Sep 2014 #28
So rather than benefit the environment and society by providing mass transit> KittyWampus Sep 2014 #11
The technology is here and these issues will need to be faced. I'm just trying to avoid waiting CK_John Sep 2014 #14
I appreciate your bringing it up as a potential issue. KittyWampus Sep 2014 #19
Actually, there is a potential for major environmental benefit. Xithras Sep 2014 #16
a fraction of the benefit than would be had by mass transit. It's like crowing over energy savings KittyWampus Sep 2014 #18
It's not really about getting over it The2ndWheel Sep 2014 #27
Millions fewer cars, ultimately. politicat Sep 2014 #24
Easier to imagine mass transit like the rest of the first world countries have. KittyWampus Sep 2014 #36
Depends where you are. politicat Sep 2014 #43
I can't see this PasadenaTrudy Sep 2014 #23
The national fleet turns over about every 8 years. politicat Sep 2014 #33
I love driving PasadenaTrudy Sep 2014 #35
"This is going to be the biggest issue in 2016" Cali_Democrat Sep 2014 #29
Name something else that will effect every voter in the country. CK_John Sep 2014 #32
I will love it when I can get one belcffub Sep 2014 #34
Is anyone testing a self-driving truck? KamaAina Sep 2014 #37
Below is link for truck testing in Nevada, Spain and Japan. CK_John Sep 2014 #38
It has to be done KamaAina Sep 2014 #39
You called it KamaAina Sep 2014 #47
Humans Need Not Apply (Unemployability in the next 10 years) Bosonic Sep 2014 #40
That was excellent presentation, and one of the reasons I'm pushing to lower CK_John Sep 2014 #45
Should we have legislated against automobiles LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #41
I have no position but I believe that our party needs to debate and get one fast. CK_John Sep 2014 #42
I understand. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #44
I would push for limiting self driving to the interstates during a transition period. CK_John Sep 2014 #46
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