General Discussion

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)

136. It's a larger part of our culture

Wed Oct 29, 2014, 01:12 AM

Oct 2014

Women are invalidated constantly. Our feelings are because we are crazy or hysterical or hormonal. Therefore, if she's not happy for being catcalled, it must be because something is wrong with her, not everyone else. You see it all over this thread. Excuses, invalidations, deflections, shaming.

This is why it's so difficult to get men to believe that these things actually happen. They also grow up in a culture that is dismissive of women's experiences. There are tons and tons of sociological studies that show women aren't taken seriously for anything when compared with men, and are only taken seriously if a man believes the woman and advocates for her. Studies in the workplace show women are talked over, interrupted, and ignored many orders of magnitude more than men. So until guys believe it, guys won't believe it.

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100 catcalls in a day. Experience how much fun this is NOT. [View all] pnwmom Oct 2014 OP

Here's the video. It's just horrible. Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #1

The shitty comments at the end of the article remind me of the people who are always MerryBlooms Oct 2014 #2

Familiar oldtime dfl_er Oct 2014 #3

It is and they are pigs. I hate to say it but they are. JanMichael Oct 2014 #4

Lived in NYC all my life. This was a daily experience for me. Happyhippychick Oct 2014 #5

As a NYC female resident I can attest to this... JaneyVee Oct 2014 #6

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #7

That is saddening and unacceptable. topological Oct 2014 #8

Just imagine how many catcalls she woukd get if she were a model. Jenoch Oct 2014 #9

Maybe you cool dudes should educate your fellow men and boys geek tragedy Oct 2014 #10

it is a way for men and even boys, to put us in our place. but, they want us to pretend it is a seabeyond Oct 2014 #11

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2014 #12

we? you are here for three hours and already became a we? and let us know we are wasting our time, seabeyond Oct 2014 #13

Terrible, overall men are much worse than women. nt Logical Oct 2014 #14

Are you arguing men are incapable of learning and geek tragedy Oct 2014 #15

cant imagine it would be much different. and so many women are expected too LOOK mopinko Oct 2014 #16

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2014 #17

Not materially more. Maybe less. geek tragedy Oct 2014 #18

It's not just NY. LWolf Oct 2014 #19

10, 11 yr old niece in a modest two piece out in front yard playing in sprinklers. seabeyond Oct 2014 #20

^This^ Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #21

but, we own these words, ya know. they are non gender, really. nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #22

it has nothing to do with attraction, just as rape is not about sex. it is control, dominance, seabeyond Oct 2014 #23

it has gotten worse. our boys are raised on porn and society, media uses women to entertain seabeyond Oct 2014 #24

Welcome to DU, topological! n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #25

Thanks for everyone who is getting it. It's not a compliment. Anything but. pnwmom Oct 2014 #26

It doesn't matter what you look like chowder66 Oct 2014 #27

I can't watch this... liberalmuse Oct 2014 #28

So much stupidity in such a short walk. DeSwiss Oct 2014 #29

I remember the sense of shame, too. We need to educate our daughters that it isn't their fault. pnwmom Oct 2014 #30

I started getting it from my classmates in 6th grade. amandabeech Oct 2014 #31

Yes! They have this sense that it is their right to judge. Even if they're not thinking pnwmom Oct 2014 #32

See my post above. Started in 6th grade. n/t amandabeech Oct 2014 #33

"unbiased" look my ass armed_and_liberal Oct 2014 #34

Men, mostly, are pigs RobertEarl Oct 2014 #35

I remember being very scared on the way to a babysitting job in my little town, pnwmom Oct 2014 #36

would you like the women on this site to start telling you our stories? cause for a man seabeyond Oct 2014 #37

Advertising does it so much also. nt Logical Oct 2014 #38

I've lost a few friends doing that. seabeyond Oct 2014 #39

What are you talking about? There were plenty of men who are just as white as she is pnwmom Oct 2014 #40

There was a count the end. 100 incidents in 10 hours. Iris Oct 2014 #41

And just what exactly do you think that message is? Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #42

message? handmade34 Oct 2014 #43

It's evident that you are not female. Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #44

Durn... chervilant Oct 2014 #45

We can start with my mother's story armed_and_liberal Oct 2014 #46

my son is a runner also. he gets the inevitable fat middle age man calling him seabeyond Oct 2014 #47

Nice dodge folks armed_and_liberal Oct 2014 #48

It's beyond me to understand. amandabeech Oct 2014 #49

ok. and it sure sounded like it, per all the responses you got. i will take you at seabeyond Oct 2014 #50

Man they're bold on the East Coast, aren't they? Jamaal510 Oct 2014 #51

k and r niyad Oct 2014 #52

Not all catcalls Chico Man Oct 2014 #53

I've never done that kind of crap. Didn't see any point to it. My Australian mother... BlueJazz Oct 2014 #54

Nice dodge, aal, Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #55

Uh, actually, no, it is not OK Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #56

Need a little cheese to go with that chervilant Oct 2014 #57

smile taz, you are so much prettier. seabeyond Oct 2014 #58

I think it's trying to portray Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #59

That was ugly sheshe2 Oct 2014 #60

Your profile says you like to "check out chicks" zappaman Oct 2014 #61

IME, it doesn't matter how she looks. Brickbat Oct 2014 #62

I think it's a great idea, but does anyone know zappaman Oct 2014 #63

Goddess, I used to hate that! Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #64

You've got it all wrong. Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #65

Ugh. progressoid Oct 2014 #66

Yeah, I wondered why they did that. Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #67

They can't. Brickbat Oct 2014 #68

I might have acted that way when I was 14-15. Maybe, although I can't remember now. But KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #69

I posted this on facebook. cwydro Oct 2014 #70

The actress received rape threats because of this work. Brickbat Oct 2014 #71

That is really eye-opening. Gets the point across. morningfog Oct 2014 #72

Yep, always feels like some (not so subtle) form of agression and domination to me freeplessinseattle Oct 2014 #73

That's probably the worst! Cat calls or honking when running. glowing Oct 2014 #74

There are plenty of men in that video who are just as white as she is. pnwmom Oct 2014 #75

It's weird. I had many brilliant professors but the most brilliant of all of them was a woman. I've KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #76

Your mother taught you well. I'm sorry you lost her! n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #77

You're welcome, sheshe2. I'm glad they made it, though it brought back a lot of unwelcome memories. pnwmom Oct 2014 #78

Which proves the point, doesn't it? This is all about aggression. n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #79

and you are probably one i would chat up at the grocery store. seabeyond Oct 2014 #80

Thank you, amandabeech. And I'm sorry you went through what you did. pnwmom Oct 2014 #81

K and R. nt cwydro Oct 2014 #82

get over yourself. Puzzledtraveller Oct 2014 #83

When will guys believe it? Brickbat Oct 2014 #84

Thank you pnwmom. I appreciate your kind words. BlueJazz Oct 2014 #85

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #86

No, I don't think you are disgusted by the harassment as much as anyone else. Demit Oct 2014 #87

Are you a woman? I doubt that you know them as well as you think you do. pnwmom Oct 2014 #88

We're trying to deal with obnoxious assholes right here. Demit Oct 2014 #89

What are you objecting to? nt pnwmom Oct 2014 #90

I agree. Maybe they were afraid someone would sue them if they didn't. nt pnwmom Oct 2014 #91

oops Kali Oct 2014 #92

Thank you!!! amandabeech Oct 2014 #93

+1. point. nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #94

Well, there's "talking" and then there's "talking." Brickbat Oct 2014 #95

+1 KentuckyWoman Oct 2014 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Oct 2014 #97

Accosted? By what - talking? LTR Oct 2014 #98

both of them? Kali Oct 2014 #99

Eek! Some idiot with bad social skills talked to me! LTR Oct 2014 #100

at the least it is fucking tiresome Kali Oct 2014 #101

Family jalan48 Oct 2014 #102

from their website shaayecanaan Oct 2014 #103

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #104

I totally disagree with you. KentuckyWoman Oct 2014 #105

Calling out to women on the street whom you don't know is not "talking." Demit Oct 2014 #106

Can you not figure out why no girl or woman wants to deal with 10 obnoxious assholes PER HOUR??? pnwmom Oct 2014 #107

so-called harassment? Kali Oct 2014 #108

Welcome to DU, jalan48! pnwmom Oct 2014 #109

Seems like most of the abusers were black. VScott Oct 2014 #110

You don't think what this woman went through was harassment? You don't think she felt harassed pnwmom Oct 2014 #111

Didn't seem that way to me, and I watched it again from the beginning. pnwmom Oct 2014 #112

No.It is not okay to say hi and give a small compliment. Not unless you've made eye contact and Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #113

!! Number23 Oct 2014 #114

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #115

News flash: She's an actress LTR Oct 2014 #116

you used the term Kali Oct 2014 #117

Ahhh yes, reminded of the old axiom Iwillnevergiveup Oct 2014 #118

Flash: she's a woman. Listen to the women responding here. We've all been through it, pnwmom Oct 2014 #119

Right, but zappaman Oct 2014 #120

Yes, I said "so-called harassment" LTR Oct 2014 #121

So Jamaal510 Oct 2014 #122

so-called implies not real Kali Oct 2014 #123

Yes, a normal cross section of NYC guys of every color VScott Oct 2014 #124

Crystal. N/t zappaman Oct 2014 #125

your rancid, ugly victim-baming is duly noted. geek tragedy Oct 2014 #126

I check them out RobertEarl Oct 2014 #127

You get ltd, all the way thru your sub thread you adamantly stand with and defend bullies. seabeyond Oct 2014 #128

Wow. Jenoch Oct 2014 #129

Less than 45% of the population of NYC is white. pnwmom Oct 2014 #130

Yes. Think about it. This woman was being talked to about every six minutes by strange men. pnwmom Oct 2014 #131

It's possible that there's less of it in Minnesota. I noticed there was less of it in Seattle pnwmom Oct 2014 #132

We just don't want our space taken up by obnoxious assholes. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #133

+ a million. nt laundry_queen Oct 2014 #134

I renember several years ago Jenoch Oct 2014 #135

It's a larger part of our culture laundry_queen Oct 2014 #136

Well, if I heard a man call out Herman, I would have figured he was talking to some guy named Herman pnwmom Oct 2014 #137

The comments section is a nuclear cesspool. chrisa Oct 2014 #138

The difference - this is not "talking" - this is harassment. chrisa Oct 2014 #139

I'm proud of DU, though. The vast majority get it. n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #140

Don't you ever take walks where you are occupied with your thoughts? pnwmom Oct 2014 #141

Do you really appreciate constant interruptions when you're trying to think? pnwmom Oct 2014 #142

Sidewalks are not singles bars during happy hour. betsuni Oct 2014 #143

By the time I saw this on Tumblr it was already posted here MrScorpio Oct 2014 #144

Thanks, MrScorpio. The reactions here tell me we're making progress pnwmom Oct 2014 #145

Misandry!! MerryBlooms Oct 2014 #146

To a stranger just passing you on the street? Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #147

This is probably not the site for that IronLionZion Oct 2014 #148

Nature has given you a great gift to behold. boston bean Oct 2014 #149

Is that what you get out of women's comments here? Brickbat Oct 2014 #150

So women don't check out guys? davidn3600 Oct 2014 #151

I live in Minnesota, and I get them here. Brickbat Oct 2014 #152

Are you a troll or so obtuse you don't even understand what street harassment is? nt raccoon Oct 2014 #153

Yeah, I understand the men and women are attracted to eachother, why would you doubt that? boston bean Oct 2014 #154

Harassed when young; treated as nothings when old. By men who think they're all that but are zeroes. WinkyDink Oct 2014 #155

This is ON THE STREET, with fugly-arse dirtbags. You must know some desperate women. WinkyDink Oct 2014 #156

Stop saying things with "comma but" in them, read up, and exercise the power you have. Brickbat Oct 2014 #157

Good demonstration. WinkyDink Oct 2014 #158

what is the factiual source for your claim that the video was produced in such a way geek tragedy Oct 2014 #159

I shared this on my wall RedCappedBandit Oct 2014 #160

Exactly. If you wouldn't compliment or say hi to a guy in the same way, pnwmom Oct 2014 #161

I'm kind of glad I'm old. alarimer Oct 2014 #162

Do you usually say that to men on the street? Brickbat Oct 2014 #163

Well, if strangers were demanding that you smile on command, pnwmom Oct 2014 #164

WOW Mr Dixon Oct 2014 #165

Girl should grow up! Cat calls are as American as apple pie! ReverendDeuce Oct 2014 #166

What if you were walking down the street, thinking something over, pnwmom Oct 2014 #167

Exactly. Why not say that to men if a guy is just being friendly? betsuni Oct 2014 #168

Do you usually say hello to men on the street? Brickbat Oct 2014 #169

She wasn't wearing a sign saying she was an actress OnlinePoker Oct 2014 #170

Actually, I say hello and good morning to most men and women I meet as I walk. OnlinePoker Oct 2014 #171

You make them uncomfortable by "checking them out." MineralMan Oct 2014 #172

Men that ogle women are probably just out of other options The2ndWheel Oct 2014 #173

My ex went to NYC for a week GummyBearz Oct 2014 #174

Have you checked out radiation lady lately? snooper2 Oct 2014 #175

Yes, it's inappropriate. Think about it. MineralMan Oct 2014 #176

if it's the hello they would give other men, then it's harmless geek tragedy Oct 2014 #177

?????? Mr Dixon Oct 2014 #178

There was a similar video posted a few months back NewJeffCT Oct 2014 #179

I'm in NYC, where the video is filmed. RedCappedBandit Oct 2014 #180

"Women could probably be trained quite easily to see men first as sexual things... JTFrog Oct 2014 #181

One means, by advertising the behavior for what it is... LanternWaste Oct 2014 #182

this is excellent. needs to be OP. instead we are told a lifetime, mans body is not attractive, no seabeyond Oct 2014 #183

Have posters become so thick-skulled they we can no longer understand... LanternWaste Oct 2014 #184

I'll bet most DU women have untold stories not just of verbal harassment, but of groping & grabbing Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #185

lol. got an eye roll from me. sigh... nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #186

I have never seen anything like that before here in Portland. dilby Oct 2014 #187

I would not UglyGreed Oct 2014 #188

i talk to people out and about ALL the time. and we know the difference. we all do. this is not a seabeyond Oct 2014 #189

and again, we all know the difference. my eyes, when i was young out and about. some middle aged seabeyond Oct 2014 #190

as do i. and started about 12. or 12 when i was old enough to recognize it. being a fuckin kid seabeyond Oct 2014 #191

but, you do think it cool to say a hi and compliment. wasnt that you? seabeyond Oct 2014 #192

Yep. Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #193

and mine was a hand between my leg, from behind, pushing up my vagina. line of school cafeteria. seabeyond Oct 2014 #194

No, I see no reason to talk to some random stranger on the street ever. dilby Oct 2014 #195

hm. that sounds more consistent with you. i am glad i asked. ?'s are good. seabeyond Oct 2014 #196

I think she summed it up pretty well there. JTFrog Oct 2014 #197

I am not superficial so I place very little value on physical appearance. dilby Oct 2014 #198

you are my people. i hope we end up sittin on a bench in a fun place, and can chat about.... seabeyond Oct 2014 #199

Well if you are ever in Portland you can hit me up. dilby Oct 2014 #200

I don't even want to watch.. PasadenaTrudy Oct 2014 #201

Portland is much more civilized.. PasadenaTrudy Oct 2014 #202

Are you male or female? Brickbat Oct 2014 #203

You are correct RobertEarl Oct 2014 #204

Or even if you smile at someone treestar Oct 2014 #205

I noticed that treestar Oct 2014 #206

Male. dilby Oct 2014 #207

become more overtly sexualized with the rise of cable TV and the Internet. seabeyond Oct 2014 #208

Ugh. Disgusting. hifiguy Oct 2014 #209

Look at her face! She didn't show the slightest bit of interest in having any contact pnwmom Oct 2014 #210

Some of the comments at the link are disgusting. valerief Oct 2014 #211

Oh, NO, they'd beat the hell out of anyone doing it to THEIR sister!! 7962 Oct 2014 #212

A starfish melts every time you "check out a chick" Orrex Oct 2014 #213

I have mercuryblues Oct 2014 #214

I want to apologize RobertEarl Oct 2014 #215

I love it here as well. dilby Oct 2014 #216

We are taking issue with your stated hobby Orrex Oct 2014 #217

"men and women are physically attracted to each other"? So? alp227 Oct 2014 #218

Talking about me RobertEarl Oct 2014 #219

Not really. Orrex Oct 2014 #220

IOW, #NotAllMen nt alp227 Oct 2014 #221

I was just there last month... PasadenaTrudy Oct 2014 #222

Jesus. Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #223

Sellwood is a great neighborhood and lots of stuff to do there. dilby Oct 2014 #224

i did. went to mad. then, i was embarrassed. and shamed, that i reacted so angrily. seabeyond Oct 2014 #225

no one said it was a cataclysmic event treestar Oct 2014 #226

Could've sworn you typed "continuous asses." Orrex Oct 2014 #227

fun fun. seabeyond Oct 2014 #228

lmfao. ya. that would work too. lol. cute. nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #229

I like Eugene but the job market is lacking since it's a college town. dilby Oct 2014 #230

I see the conversation that has ensued after this post. NCTraveler Oct 2014 #231

Ewwww, you went straight for the "conceited" gambit- which shows your resentment of women who are bettyellen Oct 2014 #232

Short and to the point. nt. NCTraveler Oct 2014 #233

Good job in removing your "check out chicks" line in your DU profile. MineralMan Oct 2014 #234

I wish on you ten such idiots, for every hour you walk the streets, every day.... Moonwalk Oct 2014 #235

As I mentioned GummyBearz Oct 2014 #236

So I should never initiate a conversation. Ever. cherokeeprogressive Oct 2014 #237

Careful--he might send you a nutty PM to tell you how important he is. (nt) Orrex Oct 2014 #238

You get nutty PM's too? zappaman Oct 2014 #239

As if that is abnormal... AgingAmerican Oct 2014 #240

When I was growing up that was called basic manners. hifiguy Oct 2014 #241

yes. stage left Oct 2014 #242

Abbie? zappaman Oct 2014 #243

Jury results edhopper Oct 2014 #244

re: "There's never debate, nuance, or gray area with sexual harrassment. Zero." thesquanderer Oct 2014 #245

Since I receive very, very few DU Mails, I'd MineralMan Oct 2014 #246

From Miss Manners to those who think a woman is rude to not respond to lewd strangers Dollface Oct 2014 #247

with the guy that was there for 5+ minutes NewJeffCT Oct 2014 #248

LOL. Well said, Miss Manners, and the young lady. n/t pnwmom Oct 2014 #249

I think it was more powerful that she didn't. We all got to see how long he persisted, pnwmom Oct 2014 #250

yes, that did make it more powerful NewJeffCT Oct 2014 #251

Clueless. CrispyQ Oct 2014 #252

K&R nt stage left Oct 2014 #253

Who stands with and validates Bullies? stage left Oct 2014 #254

wink... just sayin'. nt seabeyond Oct 2014 #255

No you should not initiate conversations. Luminous Animal Oct 2014 #256

In this small experiment Mexico City & San Francisco were the leaders jakeXT Oct 2014 #257

That was the best benefit of getting older arikara Oct 2014 #258

Not any more. uppityperson Oct 2014 #259

And what about all the men in the video who didn't cat call? tinrobot Oct 2014 #260

Very much so. It is nice to not have to hear that crap. Yeah, I am...old! If only I'd lose 20 years uppityperson Oct 2014 #261

It can be, and it can be like that "I say potato, you say potato" thing. Hello vs Heellllooooo uppityperson Oct 2014 #262

Yes, that is what we are all saying. Never talk to someone whose job it to talk with you. uppityperson Oct 2014 #263

Is this a NOT ALL men, post? Ya. We ALL know it is not all men. We have brothers, husbands, seabeyond Oct 2014 #264

He changed it. zappaman Oct 2014 #265

"hellllllloooo" arikara Oct 2014 #266

Just because the majority don't engage in this behavior in this video zappaman Oct 2014 #267

3 hides on this thread, flagged for review. uppityperson Oct 2014 #268

. Brickbat Oct 2014 #269

Are they supposed to get an award? Do women get awards for just doing pnwmom Oct 2014 #270

I've lived it but I talk back Skittles Oct 2014 #271

the only time men really get it is when they have daughters Skittles Oct 2014 #272

I don't get it anymore PasadenaTrudy Oct 2014 #273

aw I do Skittles Oct 2014 #274

Men are expected in our society to be confident, make the first move, and go get the girl you want davidn3600 Oct 2014 #275

"was probably a great lesson for him" F4lconF16 Oct 2014 #276

when they experience it with their own eye's & ears One_Life_To_Give Oct 2014 #277

Very few women want or expect strange men to approach them on the street. pnwmom Oct 2014 #278

So, ignoring or a face clearly letting you know she hates this shit and you seabeyond Oct 2014 #282

Something is really wonky with this thread arikara Oct 2014 #284

Any of which would have been richly deserved by that creep. hifiguy Oct 2014 #281

re: "There's never debate, nuance, or gray area with sexual harrassment. Zero." thesquanderer Oct 2014 #287

I know. hifiguy Oct 2014 #280

Great call! marym625 Oct 2014 #288

. Separation Oct 2014 #283

So? That does't mean there was deceptive editing. n/t pnwmom Nov 2014 #290

its about social economic class... formernaderite Nov 2014 #289

Blaming it on porn is, I think, simplistic . . . markpkessinger Oct 2014 #279

Kicking to see if this works, all the replies and recs are gone. freshwest Oct 2014 #285

Time to watch "Oppressed Majority" again. betsuni Oct 2014 #286