General Discussion

Moostache

(10,958 posts)

111. To the its OK to shoot the 18-yr old because he is a "man" crowd, one question...

Sat Nov 29, 2014, 12:39 PM

Nov 2014

If 18 is the age of being an adult, then why do people have to be 21 to drink, 25 to rent a car?

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/age-requirement-rent-car-62294.html
http://www.budget.com/budgetWeb/html/en/common/agePopUp.html

Think about it, if actuary tables and insurance companies determine that a suitable age to risk renting an automobile - without additional financial consideration - to someone over the age of 25, what does that tell you about the assumption that 18 is a magical cut-off to be considered fully matured? Its arbitrary and totally besides the point.

Jay-walking is a misdemeanor.
Shoplifting less than $50 is a misdemeanor.
Insolence and disrespect are NOT CRIMES - maybe impolite, but NOT CRIMINAL.

NONE of those minor infractions carry a death sentence.
NOR DOES ASSAULT ON A POLICE OFFICER.

I do not care that Murderer Wilson got punched in the mouth, that did not give him a "reasonable" fear for his life.

His testimony was bullshit from start to finish and he should have had to tell that story on a witness stand with cross-examination, not to a grand jury with a preface from the prosecutor. It was coached and calculated to give MAXIMUM credence to the idea that Wilson feared for his life at the hands of the Hulk Hogan-esque, demonic looking angry black man.

He actually said that he was afraid another punch to the face was going to kill him...this is the hallmark of a person who is too steeped in movies, myths and pop culture to carry a badge and a gun. His racist descriptions meant to portray Brown as an animal, not a human being and certainly not one worth dignity or respect, was all I needed to see to confirm that.

Wilson is a racist. He is also a coward that should never again be allowed to carry a badge and a gun. Its too late for him to be tried fairly for his crimes, but its not too late to ensure that he is never again allowed to be in such a position in the future.

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I work with teens Michael Brown's age and the number one rule is [View all] adigal Nov 2014 OP

Desperate people who are not wanting to go to jail can't be reasoned with... pipoman Nov 2014 #1

You are referring to Wilson, are you not? Because, you know, he actually KILLED SOMEONE. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #5

yes, wilson killed an unarmed black boy who was not threatening anyone samsingh Nov 2014 #14

I seriously doubt Wilson was even thinking about defusing a situation. joshdawg Nov 2014 #18

Wilson was a bully first and foremost rock Nov 2014 #32

And brown wasn't? What about assaulting a shop keeper? Travis_0004 Nov 2014 #37

That is the inconvenient truth around here. Redford Nov 2014 #41

We don't discuss it here much.... daleanime Nov 2014 #53

yes human life does matter Niceguy1 Nov 2014 #74

Which tells me some else that doesn't matter.... daleanime Nov 2014 #83

no more Niceguy1 Nov 2014 #92

the point is that the cop is not or should not be entitled to the use of deadly force as his first samsingh Nov 2014 #96

Check your post. I am pretty sure it says the opposite of what you mean for it to say. nt tblue37 Nov 2014 #100

That was hardly assault. The man came at Brown and he R B Garr Nov 2014 #131

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #137

It's not even stupidity. It was an intentionally confrontational move rury Nov 2014 #214

And backing up because he felt insulted and then opening his car door so as to hit Brown and brush JDPriestly Nov 2014 #191

Regardless of Michael Brown's "state of mind" rury Nov 2014 #211

unfortunately Niceguy1 Nov 2014 #230

Not entirely proven, either. Of the 12 shots, not all entered the body. R B Garr Nov 2014 #231

What precisely then, does it indicate? LanternWaste Dec 2014 #284

Michael Brown was, at the time seen by Darren Wilson, SIMPLY WALKING. Do YOU want to be told to get WinkyDink Nov 2014 #105

and according to the chief of police or the mayor, wilson did not know about the shopkeeper incident samsingh Nov 2014 #108

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #115

You are right - he didn't deserve to die for that adigal Nov 2014 #121

Let's we say he was rock Nov 2014 #42

You've got be be kidding. Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #63

How about you stop blaming the victim. ncjustice80 Nov 2014 #66

It's not blaming the victim to point out a tendency towards violence mythology Nov 2014 #73

Wow. ncjustice80 Nov 2014 #81

No, it's not blaming.... daleanime Nov 2014 #90

The point of the OP is that with a kid Brown's age, it is the responsibility of the adult, here JDPriestly Nov 2014 #192

"A tendency toward violence?" Did you know Michael Brown personally rury Nov 2014 #222

nc, there are two separate incidents here Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #84

Yes. This is it. Not related at all. adigal Nov 2014 #122

Judgement? deist99 Nov 2014 #157

Wilson should have waited for back-up to diffuse the situation with Brown. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #193

Handled better deist99 Nov 2014 #219

Wilson SAID Brown attacked him. Dorian Johnson said that the only reason that Brown was so close to rury Nov 2014 #224

Actually, how you repond to the police depends a lot on your cultural and racial background. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #229

Maybe deist99 Nov 2014 #250

True, but Wilson had choices other than to confront Brown all by himself. He should have waited JDPriestly Nov 2014 #269

I don't think I answered you very well. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #279

This completely ridiculous"child" nonsense isn't helping your case. pipoman Nov 2014 #270

Really rock Nov 2014 #80

I don't understand your thinking. Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #95

not much of a bully - poor kid didn't even have a gun samsingh Nov 2014 #99

Yet the shopkeeper didn't call the police, so he didn't feel assaulted R B Garr Nov 2014 #101

The shopkeeper called the police - and a report was filed wercal Nov 2014 #156

A bystander called the police. The shop worker was interviewed immediately R B Garr Nov 2014 #159

Name calling doesn't answer the question wercal Nov 2014 #162

What name calling? lol. But I see what you're doing here. R B Garr Nov 2014 #168

I've called the police a few times in my life wercal Nov 2014 #173

I think I've seen enough of who has an "infantile mind." R B Garr Nov 2014 #178

I'll take that as an admission wercal Nov 2014 #180

And I took the absence of 911 calls and a police report R B Garr Nov 2014 #187

And we've gone full circle wercal Nov 2014 #197

We actually haven't gone full circle. R B Garr Nov 2014 #199

Telling you to quit making stuff up does not equal an attack wercal Nov 2014 #202

LMAO! R B Garr Nov 2014 #204

You don't understand what a red herring is wercal Nov 2014 #208

Yet you keep trying to get one of my posts hidden R B Garr Nov 2014 #209

I have not reported on any of your posts wercal Nov 2014 #210

Work it! You really are funny. R B Garr Nov 2014 #212

Wilson neederd to be cross-examined. But that is why a trial was needed and not just a JDPriestly Nov 2014 #194

There was a 911 call and a police report filed whopis01 Nov 2014 #220

A bystander called. That was first reported WAY back. R B Garr Nov 2014 #221

btw, do you remember why Ferguson PD said the report was R B Garr Nov 2014 #232

Yeap, the FPD was full of fuckin lies... I don't beleive there's still a small faction on this board uponit7771 Nov 2014 #240

+1, 18 of 20 witness's said Brown had his hands up when he was murdered... the 2 differers uponit7771 Nov 2014 #239

I missed that trial. Unless you think a store tape means a trial isn't necessary to WinkyDink Nov 2014 #107

last time I checked green917 Nov 2014 #112

You and I were not there. TNNurse Nov 2014 #160

The point is that Brown although physically large was a kid with poor judgment. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #189

IF that occurred and video is sketchy at BEST... rustydog Nov 2014 #205

Brown was executed with no trial, you think execution for LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #258

Brown was never charged or convicted for that crime, or for the theft of the cigars. Innocent until Erose999 Dec 2014 #285

Funny how a cop with years on the force pipoman Nov 2014 #59

The department doesn't keep a record of complaints. onecaliberal Nov 2014 #64

Certainly, if anyone had any story...if anyone's cousin of pipoman Nov 2014 #174

Give me a fucking break there are stories all over the internet onecaliberal Nov 2014 #225

You're kidding right? pipoman Nov 2014 #271

The entire Dept was bad but Wilson was good, right? onecaliberal Nov 2014 #228

He had been there 2 years and started fresh out of the academy pipoman Nov 2014 #277

Funny how he was fired from his first cop job... SunSeeker Nov 2014 #91

Wilson -- out to prove his manhood? Was that a motivation for killing rather than waiting for JDPriestly Nov 2014 #195

Years?? ScreamingMeemie Nov 2014 #117

over 5 years copping in pipoman Nov 2014 #175

That's a baby cop. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2014 #177

Maybe...it's 5 years on the streets pipoman Nov 2014 #196

That's what I think - although my husband, who is an ex-NYC cop, says Wilson is a adigal Nov 2014 #120

Boy? Because he is black? He was a year older, 6" taller and a hundred pounds heavier than I jtuck004 Nov 2014 #140

He was walking in the street, hardly a capital offense Rhiannon12866 Nov 2014 #88

Why would Wilson have been afraid of going to jail? IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #19

Maybe he realized that laying hands on the shop owner... Oktober Nov 2014 #26

strong arm? DeadEyeDyck Nov 2014 #49

People go on high speed chases for less... pipoman Nov 2014 #56

Just to be sure I understand, are you suggesting that the fault for KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #62

the answer to this question Mojo Electro Nov 2014 #129

I don't think it's far fetched PsychGrad Nov 2014 #135

We're not talking about a security guard or private individual pipoman Nov 2014 #169

Well PsychGrad Nov 2014 #254

Well that would be assuming you were just walking minding your own business pipoman Nov 2014 #259

Except PsychGrad Nov 2014 #263

Hind sight....at the moment Wilson only had a description of a robbery suspect pipoman Nov 2014 #265

Entirely and completely pipoman Nov 2014 #171

1) It has not been definitively established that Brown 'robbed the store.' 2) What KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #206

nah, none of that shit matters.. brown was... well.. brown and big and the cop with a gun uponit7771 Nov 2014 #242

It does seem that way. I've had some really absurd exchanges since KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #256

Only the willfully blind pipoman Nov 2014 #255

Dunno how accurate this is XemaSab Nov 2014 #257

Most places with a sidewalk pipoman Nov 2014 #262

I've watched the video numerous times. I've also read Dorian Johnson's KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #261

It really doesn't matter if it happened or not, pipoman Nov 2014 #264

Wilson's credibility and Johnson the "accomplice" BootinUp Nov 2014 #266

Now you are directly mis-representing the record. It is not established that KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #267

This is easily googled XemaSab Nov 2014 #268

18 of the eye witnesses say browns hands were up 2 said no... uponit7771 Nov 2014 #241

More dumb stuff HERVEPA Nov 2014 #79

+1 Hissyspit Nov 2014 #218

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #114

True, but they also have protection from a union and fellow officers to cover for them. Rex Nov 2014 #118

Ah yes, Wilson was that desperate man. nt Hekate Nov 2014 #149

Creative allegation... LanternWaste Dec 2014 #282

as someone told me when I was a teenage boy rurallib Nov 2014 #2

How do they learn control if everyone is always tip toeing around? Oktober Nov 2014 #3

same for being a grown woman too tho. redruddyred Nov 2014 #7

Absolutely... Oktober Nov 2014 #30

Exactly. So why didn't the grown-ass ANGRY COP realize this? (See how that works?) WinkyDink Nov 2014 #8

It's not about tip-toeing around. It's about being the adult. knitter4democracy Nov 2014 #10

Right...and when the student is calm, we go over alternative ways adigal Nov 2014 #126

Exactly! knitter4democracy Nov 2014 #166

Clearly, the OP isn't talking about "grown men" Cooley Hurd Nov 2014 #15

18 years old... Oktober Nov 2014 #23

18 is hardly an adult emotionally steve2470 Nov 2014 #25

So-so mature... but not a child... Oktober Nov 2014 #27

I appreciate your honesty steve2470 Nov 2014 #31

I hope he does as well... Oktober Nov 2014 #35

Not if we all got shot with 12 bullets first for 'acting out' Tsiyu Nov 2014 #55

I think back and I was already in the Navy. Mature enough not to fight with a cop like most people jtuck004 Nov 2014 #138

teenager noiretextatique Nov 2014 #86

I'll take a stab at it... Oktober Nov 2014 #87

but but but noiretextatique Nov 2014 #89

I agree. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #33

That's the issue I suppose... Oktober Nov 2014 #38

You either misunderstood me or are purposefully making up what I said adigal Nov 2014 #127

And they come out of the military emotionally damaged. JaneyVee Nov 2014 #71

Really? FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #78

What an absurd, ridiculous statement Lurks Often Nov 2014 #106

project much DustyJoe Nov 2014 #119

What a stupid thing to say. Nt hack89 Nov 2014 #167

I never tiptoe around my students and I didn't say that adigal Nov 2014 #125

Self control is setting an example, not tip-toeing around bhikkhu Nov 2014 #244

First mistake. 99Forever Nov 2014 #4

It was the first time in 10 years he shot the gun yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #54

Big fan of Wilson too? Kingofalldems Nov 2014 #154

Part of being a police officer is knowing how B Calm Nov 2014 #6

And part is to let well enough alone, as in: Two young Black guys walking in the street. Was it a WinkyDink Nov 2014 #11

I never understood why he stopped them gwheezie Nov 2014 #20

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #147

I wonder if MB told DW to go fuck himself.... nc4bo Nov 2014 #21

this^^^^^ treestar Nov 2014 #52

the problem with this post redruddyred Nov 2014 #9

With all due respect, I think you're misreading the OP steve2470 Nov 2014 #22

"I see reality about teenage men in general" redruddyred Dec 2014 #281

Wow! Totally wrong reading of this. adigal Nov 2014 #128

Wrong, the post correctly stated a scientific fact. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #141

maybe they should retain minor status until then. redruddyred Dec 2014 #283

I wouldn't argue with that. nt Live and Learn Dec 2014 #286

Bad comprehension Lex Nov 2014 #170

kids are individuals and I'm sure you treat them as such cali Nov 2014 #12

which raises the questions - did wilson get what he wanted to do afterall? samsingh Nov 2014 #13

adigal is correct HelenWheels Nov 2014 #16

Such great kids gwheezie Nov 2014 #28

I tend to agree with you gwheezie Nov 2014 #17

Fair enough. Smarmie Doofus Nov 2014 #24

And, what about the grocery store clerk?! chervilant Nov 2014 #36

Brown knew what he had done... Oktober Nov 2014 #40

No, at most ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #61

That's not the point... Oktober Nov 2014 #65

Come on ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #68

A person who has just committed a crime is more likely to avoid confrontations with police alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #76

It was an issue in the sense that it ( the video) established his apparent frame of mind.... Smarmie Doofus Nov 2014 #198

So he deserved to die because he pushed a clerk off of him? tia uponit7771 Nov 2014 #235

Disagree. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #29

look at it this way steve2470 Nov 2014 #34

I was stopped on occasion by the police as a teen. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #44

My recollection is Wilson said "what the fuck are you doing in the street ?" or.... steve2470 Nov 2014 #45

Wilson was not a smart cop. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #47

100% agree, sir :) nt steve2470 Nov 2014 #48

At 18, I probably would have been apologetic yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #60

Of course, I wouldn't have been walking christx30 Nov 2014 #69

true steve2470 Nov 2014 #70

Traffic of no, christx30 Nov 2014 #85

I was stopped as a teen too... I was scared shitless because I'm black and they beat blacks in MO uponit7771 Nov 2014 #236

How? deist99 Nov 2014 #223

ok good for you, bye nt steve2470 Nov 2014 #252

No one in this OP chervilant Nov 2014 #39

You are 100% correct. gordianot Nov 2014 #43

Seems that everyone on this thread who deals with teens agrees adigal Nov 2014 #130

Seems like the police actually CAN avoid shooting.... Bigmack Nov 2014 #46

Absolutely there is a difference. How will it change? By wishing it to change? randome Nov 2014 #50

Many cops have a strong desire to have others show deference to their authority. Vattel Nov 2014 #51

If one takes the time to reach Dorian Johnson's testimony in KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #67

What really struck me about Dorian Johnson's testimony TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #104

A fair-minded reading of Johnson's testimony suggests that he himself thought KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #124

So you think Brown had no conscience? XemaSab Nov 2014 #142

Nobody knows what Brown was thinking about the store incident. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #144

Who would have been on trial? XemaSab Nov 2014 #145

No, not Brown after he was killed. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #148

Do you make a practice of erecting straw men? Saying that Johnson's testimony KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #203

I owe you no such apology XemaSab Nov 2014 #215

I agree that it would not be strange at all for a police officer to obnoxiously bark out orders Vattel Nov 2014 #132

I think the language officers use today is abhorrent and Live and Learn Nov 2014 #146

amen Vattel Nov 2014 #227

If only people knew how Deputies treat County inmates. Socal31 Nov 2014 #273

What's not conflicting is 18 of the 20 eye witness's say Brown had his hands up... uponit7771 Nov 2014 #247

Wilson was a trained adult cop, but how was he trained? Jim__ Nov 2014 #57

Number one rule of cops, from what I understand, is "control the situation" bhikkhu Nov 2014 #58

I may be stepping into it here, but here goes . . . Brigid Nov 2014 #72

as a man but not a cop.... steve2470 Nov 2014 #75

An interesting question Lurks Often Nov 2014 #102

Not stepping in it at all. It has been shown that women officers are Live and Learn Nov 2014 #274

adigal..I wish I could rec your post more than once. You are absolutely correct truth2power Nov 2014 #77

Thank you for at excellent explanation! Maybe people will understand adigal Nov 2014 #133

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #150

This mother of 3 former teen boys (now adults) agrees. Arkansas Granny Nov 2014 #82

I have always found that treating them with respect and talking to them like they were adults Cleita Nov 2014 #93

It saddens me... liberalmuse Nov 2014 #94

Verbal judo the art of conflict defusion using words.... Historic NY Nov 2014 #97

He didn't *want* to de-escalate. He's a bully and a racist, and he tblue37 Nov 2014 #98

Excellent post. Teens are also very dangerously prone to peer R B Garr Nov 2014 #103

Same here, years with at-risk youth teaches one a LOT about themselves and humanity. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #109

Well written War Horse Nov 2014 #110

To the its OK to shoot the 18-yr old because he is a "man" crowd, one question... Moostache Nov 2014 #111

excellent points about age nt steve2470 Nov 2014 #113

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #151

Yes but cops don't work that way. Their entire job is to force a person into submission. Rex Nov 2014 #116

some of the comments in this thread heaven05 Nov 2014 #123

I completely agree indivisibleman Nov 2014 #134

of course heaven05 Nov 2014 #136

You just reminded me of something. indivisibleman Nov 2014 #249

damn good one heaven05 Nov 2014 #278

thank you. and indivisibleman Nov 2014 #280

+1 But I am also heartened to see so many that do understand the injustice Live and Learn Nov 2014 #152

I am glad to see the heaven05 Nov 2014 #158

+1 uponit7771 Nov 2014 #243

I see several comments about how police are trained and subsequently become bullies. brer cat Nov 2014 #139

One only need watch the cop or prison shows (if one can stomach it) to see that Live and Learn Nov 2014 #153

I don't watch those shows. brer cat Nov 2014 #172

Check out the actual recruiting video on this post to see Live and Learn Nov 2014 #176

Great comment and info, brer cat mike dub Nov 2014 #182

Yep, that is the thing I keep coming back to. brer cat Nov 2014 #186

Wilson was SUPPOSEDLY an adult, who SHOULD HAVE BEEN trained to defuse a situation! LongTomH Nov 2014 #143

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #200

De-escalate is great advice! Mike Nelson Nov 2014 #155

It is a scientific fact and is freely available with a minimal google search. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #163

I think that may be true... Mike Nelson Nov 2014 #213

I can agree with that. nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #216

Wiser words have not been spoken! n/t bobGandolf Nov 2014 #161

Exactly, Wilson was supposed to be (and hired & paid to be) the proverbial "adult in the room" 99th_Monkey Nov 2014 #164

It's definitely a mind-set... ReRe Nov 2014 #165

Wait a second... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #179

Even IF that is true XemaSab Nov 2014 #181

They probably would for the assault in commission of the robbery. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #183

I'm talking about just the cigars XemaSab Nov 2014 #184

So, he was just in the mood to punch a cop? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #185

Wilson didnt know that when he stopped Brown adigal Nov 2014 #207

Yeah, he kind of did. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #226

No ... he kind of didn't... they changed the story after the police chief said he didn't uponit7771 Nov 2014 #238

There is a radio recording of him asking if they need help searching... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #245

The question is which revision of the facts are we supposed to buy? BootinUp Nov 2014 #246

What revision of facts? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #248

Wilson has been working on this story that much we know BootinUp Nov 2014 #251

Exactly, and notice none of that is in a police report which R B Garr Nov 2014 #253

You skipped the part were Wilson didn't know of the robberty and back up his car into two teens uponit7771 Nov 2014 #237

Goes for kids of all ages and colors. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #188

Agreed - TBF Nov 2014 #190

Excellent! And the reason Wilson didn't call for back-up was probably R B Garr Nov 2014 #201

Defuse, use calm talk, humor and be respectful. Locrian Nov 2014 #217

My brothers....I must speak.... N.Y. to Paris Nov 2014 #233

Oh my - another one. nt TBF Nov 2014 #234

You care about helping teens. Not all cops do. Therein lies the difference. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #260

Not that it's needed but defacto7 Nov 2014 #272

We cannot expect law enforcement to exercise good judgment. Enthusiast Nov 2014 #275

Absolutely right. That same rule was how my fellow high school colleagues dealt with teens. It works ancianita Nov 2014 #276