General Discussion

brer cat

(27,323 posts)

139. I see several comments about how police are trained and subsequently become bullies.

Sat Nov 29, 2014, 02:56 PM

Nov 2014

Has anyone here been through the training? I spoke this week with a woman who was a LEO in Atlanta for many years. She brought up the Michael Brown shooting and said she wished she could have asked some questions of Wilson. First, she said that during her time at the academy, rule #1 was to use the LEAST possible force. Also stressed constantly was DO NOT escalate, followed by DO NOT go it alone if the situation is getting out of hand...always call for backup and wait until they arrive. I would guess that she is in her 50's so she would have been trained some time before Wilson. Maybe training has changed during that time, but clearly Michael Brown would be alive today if Wilson had followed the training this former LEO had.

She also brought up the number of shots fired and said she could not get her mind around that...how in the world could he shoot that many times at someone not firing back at him.

If LEOs are currently being trained in a manner that would lead to "take control at all costs" mentality, maybe that is a way Holder and DOJ could help in the future. Some overhaul of the training programs might make a difference some day. That assumes training can penetrate a brain like Wilson's, which might be a stretch, but I try to be an optimist.

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I work with teens Michael Brown's age and the number one rule is [View all] adigal Nov 2014 OP

Desperate people who are not wanting to go to jail can't be reasoned with... pipoman Nov 2014 #1

You are referring to Wilson, are you not? Because, you know, he actually KILLED SOMEONE. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #5

yes, wilson killed an unarmed black boy who was not threatening anyone samsingh Nov 2014 #14

I seriously doubt Wilson was even thinking about defusing a situation. joshdawg Nov 2014 #18

Wilson was a bully first and foremost rock Nov 2014 #32

And brown wasn't? What about assaulting a shop keeper? Travis_0004 Nov 2014 #37

That is the inconvenient truth around here. Redford Nov 2014 #41

We don't discuss it here much.... daleanime Nov 2014 #53

yes human life does matter Niceguy1 Nov 2014 #74

Which tells me some else that doesn't matter.... daleanime Nov 2014 #83

no more Niceguy1 Nov 2014 #92

the point is that the cop is not or should not be entitled to the use of deadly force as his first samsingh Nov 2014 #96

Check your post. I am pretty sure it says the opposite of what you mean for it to say. nt tblue37 Nov 2014 #100

That was hardly assault. The man came at Brown and he R B Garr Nov 2014 #131

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #137

It's not even stupidity. It was an intentionally confrontational move rury Nov 2014 #214

And backing up because he felt insulted and then opening his car door so as to hit Brown and brush JDPriestly Nov 2014 #191

Regardless of Michael Brown's "state of mind" rury Nov 2014 #211

unfortunately Niceguy1 Nov 2014 #230

Not entirely proven, either. Of the 12 shots, not all entered the body. R B Garr Nov 2014 #231

What precisely then, does it indicate? LanternWaste Dec 2014 #284

Michael Brown was, at the time seen by Darren Wilson, SIMPLY WALKING. Do YOU want to be told to get WinkyDink Nov 2014 #105

and according to the chief of police or the mayor, wilson did not know about the shopkeeper incident samsingh Nov 2014 #108

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #115

You are right - he didn't deserve to die for that adigal Nov 2014 #121

Let's we say he was rock Nov 2014 #42

You've got be be kidding. Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #63

How about you stop blaming the victim. ncjustice80 Nov 2014 #66

It's not blaming the victim to point out a tendency towards violence mythology Nov 2014 #73

Wow. ncjustice80 Nov 2014 #81

No, it's not blaming.... daleanime Nov 2014 #90

The point of the OP is that with a kid Brown's age, it is the responsibility of the adult, here JDPriestly Nov 2014 #192

"A tendency toward violence?" Did you know Michael Brown personally rury Nov 2014 #222

nc, there are two separate incidents here Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #84

Yes. This is it. Not related at all. adigal Nov 2014 #122

Judgement? deist99 Nov 2014 #157

Wilson should have waited for back-up to diffuse the situation with Brown. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #193

Handled better deist99 Nov 2014 #219

Wilson SAID Brown attacked him. Dorian Johnson said that the only reason that Brown was so close to rury Nov 2014 #224

Actually, how you repond to the police depends a lot on your cultural and racial background. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #229

Maybe deist99 Nov 2014 #250

True, but Wilson had choices other than to confront Brown all by himself. He should have waited JDPriestly Nov 2014 #269

I don't think I answered you very well. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #279

This completely ridiculous"child" nonsense isn't helping your case. pipoman Nov 2014 #270

Really rock Nov 2014 #80

I don't understand your thinking. Shemp Howard Nov 2014 #95

not much of a bully - poor kid didn't even have a gun samsingh Nov 2014 #99

Yet the shopkeeper didn't call the police, so he didn't feel assaulted R B Garr Nov 2014 #101

The shopkeeper called the police - and a report was filed wercal Nov 2014 #156

A bystander called the police. The shop worker was interviewed immediately R B Garr Nov 2014 #159

Name calling doesn't answer the question wercal Nov 2014 #162

What name calling? lol. But I see what you're doing here. R B Garr Nov 2014 #168

I've called the police a few times in my life wercal Nov 2014 #173

I think I've seen enough of who has an "infantile mind." R B Garr Nov 2014 #178

I'll take that as an admission wercal Nov 2014 #180

And I took the absence of 911 calls and a police report R B Garr Nov 2014 #187

And we've gone full circle wercal Nov 2014 #197

We actually haven't gone full circle. R B Garr Nov 2014 #199

Telling you to quit making stuff up does not equal an attack wercal Nov 2014 #202

LMAO! R B Garr Nov 2014 #204

You don't understand what a red herring is wercal Nov 2014 #208

Yet you keep trying to get one of my posts hidden R B Garr Nov 2014 #209

I have not reported on any of your posts wercal Nov 2014 #210

Work it! You really are funny. R B Garr Nov 2014 #212

Wilson neederd to be cross-examined. But that is why a trial was needed and not just a JDPriestly Nov 2014 #194

There was a 911 call and a police report filed whopis01 Nov 2014 #220

A bystander called. That was first reported WAY back. R B Garr Nov 2014 #221

btw, do you remember why Ferguson PD said the report was R B Garr Nov 2014 #232

Yeap, the FPD was full of fuckin lies... I don't beleive there's still a small faction on this board uponit7771 Nov 2014 #240

+1, 18 of 20 witness's said Brown had his hands up when he was murdered... the 2 differers uponit7771 Nov 2014 #239

I missed that trial. Unless you think a store tape means a trial isn't necessary to WinkyDink Nov 2014 #107

last time I checked green917 Nov 2014 #112

You and I were not there. TNNurse Nov 2014 #160

The point is that Brown although physically large was a kid with poor judgment. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #189

IF that occurred and video is sketchy at BEST... rustydog Nov 2014 #205

Brown was executed with no trial, you think execution for LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #258

Brown was never charged or convicted for that crime, or for the theft of the cigars. Innocent until Erose999 Dec 2014 #285

Funny how a cop with years on the force pipoman Nov 2014 #59

The department doesn't keep a record of complaints. onecaliberal Nov 2014 #64

Certainly, if anyone had any story...if anyone's cousin of pipoman Nov 2014 #174

Give me a fucking break there are stories all over the internet onecaliberal Nov 2014 #225

You're kidding right? pipoman Nov 2014 #271

The entire Dept was bad but Wilson was good, right? onecaliberal Nov 2014 #228

He had been there 2 years and started fresh out of the academy pipoman Nov 2014 #277

Funny how he was fired from his first cop job... SunSeeker Nov 2014 #91

Wilson -- out to prove his manhood? Was that a motivation for killing rather than waiting for JDPriestly Nov 2014 #195

Years?? ScreamingMeemie Nov 2014 #117

over 5 years copping in pipoman Nov 2014 #175

That's a baby cop. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2014 #177

Maybe...it's 5 years on the streets pipoman Nov 2014 #196

That's what I think - although my husband, who is an ex-NYC cop, says Wilson is a adigal Nov 2014 #120

Boy? Because he is black? He was a year older, 6" taller and a hundred pounds heavier than I jtuck004 Nov 2014 #140

He was walking in the street, hardly a capital offense Rhiannon12866 Nov 2014 #88

Why would Wilson have been afraid of going to jail? IdaBriggs Nov 2014 #19

Maybe he realized that laying hands on the shop owner... Oktober Nov 2014 #26

strong arm? DeadEyeDyck Nov 2014 #49

People go on high speed chases for less... pipoman Nov 2014 #56

Just to be sure I understand, are you suggesting that the fault for KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #62

the answer to this question Mojo Electro Nov 2014 #129

I don't think it's far fetched PsychGrad Nov 2014 #135

We're not talking about a security guard or private individual pipoman Nov 2014 #169

Well PsychGrad Nov 2014 #254

Well that would be assuming you were just walking minding your own business pipoman Nov 2014 #259

Except PsychGrad Nov 2014 #263

Hind sight....at the moment Wilson only had a description of a robbery suspect pipoman Nov 2014 #265

Entirely and completely pipoman Nov 2014 #171

1) It has not been definitively established that Brown 'robbed the store.' 2) What KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #206

nah, none of that shit matters.. brown was... well.. brown and big and the cop with a gun uponit7771 Nov 2014 #242

It does seem that way. I've had some really absurd exchanges since KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #256

Only the willfully blind pipoman Nov 2014 #255

Dunno how accurate this is XemaSab Nov 2014 #257

Most places with a sidewalk pipoman Nov 2014 #262

I've watched the video numerous times. I've also read Dorian Johnson's KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #261

It really doesn't matter if it happened or not, pipoman Nov 2014 #264

Wilson's credibility and Johnson the "accomplice" BootinUp Nov 2014 #266

Now you are directly mis-representing the record. It is not established that KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #267

This is easily googled XemaSab Nov 2014 #268

18 of the eye witnesses say browns hands were up 2 said no... uponit7771 Nov 2014 #241

More dumb stuff HERVEPA Nov 2014 #79

+1 Hissyspit Nov 2014 #218

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #114

True, but they also have protection from a union and fellow officers to cover for them. Rex Nov 2014 #118

Ah yes, Wilson was that desperate man. nt Hekate Nov 2014 #149

Creative allegation... LanternWaste Dec 2014 #282

as someone told me when I was a teenage boy rurallib Nov 2014 #2

How do they learn control if everyone is always tip toeing around? Oktober Nov 2014 #3

same for being a grown woman too tho. redruddyred Nov 2014 #7

Absolutely... Oktober Nov 2014 #30

Exactly. So why didn't the grown-ass ANGRY COP realize this? (See how that works?) WinkyDink Nov 2014 #8

It's not about tip-toeing around. It's about being the adult. knitter4democracy Nov 2014 #10

Right...and when the student is calm, we go over alternative ways adigal Nov 2014 #126

Exactly! knitter4democracy Nov 2014 #166

Clearly, the OP isn't talking about "grown men" Cooley Hurd Nov 2014 #15

18 years old... Oktober Nov 2014 #23

18 is hardly an adult emotionally steve2470 Nov 2014 #25

So-so mature... but not a child... Oktober Nov 2014 #27

I appreciate your honesty steve2470 Nov 2014 #31

I hope he does as well... Oktober Nov 2014 #35

Not if we all got shot with 12 bullets first for 'acting out' Tsiyu Nov 2014 #55

I think back and I was already in the Navy. Mature enough not to fight with a cop like most people jtuck004 Nov 2014 #138

teenager noiretextatique Nov 2014 #86

I'll take a stab at it... Oktober Nov 2014 #87

but but but noiretextatique Nov 2014 #89

I agree. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #33

That's the issue I suppose... Oktober Nov 2014 #38

You either misunderstood me or are purposefully making up what I said adigal Nov 2014 #127

And they come out of the military emotionally damaged. JaneyVee Nov 2014 #71

Really? FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #78

What an absurd, ridiculous statement Lurks Often Nov 2014 #106

project much DustyJoe Nov 2014 #119

What a stupid thing to say. Nt hack89 Nov 2014 #167

I never tiptoe around my students and I didn't say that adigal Nov 2014 #125

Self control is setting an example, not tip-toeing around bhikkhu Nov 2014 #244

First mistake. 99Forever Nov 2014 #4

It was the first time in 10 years he shot the gun yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #54

Big fan of Wilson too? Kingofalldems Nov 2014 #154

Part of being a police officer is knowing how B Calm Nov 2014 #6

And part is to let well enough alone, as in: Two young Black guys walking in the street. Was it a WinkyDink Nov 2014 #11

I never understood why he stopped them gwheezie Nov 2014 #20

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #147

I wonder if MB told DW to go fuck himself.... nc4bo Nov 2014 #21

this^^^^^ treestar Nov 2014 #52

the problem with this post redruddyred Nov 2014 #9

With all due respect, I think you're misreading the OP steve2470 Nov 2014 #22

"I see reality about teenage men in general" redruddyred Dec 2014 #281

Wow! Totally wrong reading of this. adigal Nov 2014 #128

Wrong, the post correctly stated a scientific fact. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #141

maybe they should retain minor status until then. redruddyred Dec 2014 #283

I wouldn't argue with that. nt Live and Learn Dec 2014 #286

Bad comprehension Lex Nov 2014 #170

kids are individuals and I'm sure you treat them as such cali Nov 2014 #12

which raises the questions - did wilson get what he wanted to do afterall? samsingh Nov 2014 #13

adigal is correct HelenWheels Nov 2014 #16

Such great kids gwheezie Nov 2014 #28

I tend to agree with you gwheezie Nov 2014 #17

Fair enough. Smarmie Doofus Nov 2014 #24

And, what about the grocery store clerk?! chervilant Nov 2014 #36

Brown knew what he had done... Oktober Nov 2014 #40

No, at most ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #61

That's not the point... Oktober Nov 2014 #65

Come on ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #68

A person who has just committed a crime is more likely to avoid confrontations with police alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #76

It was an issue in the sense that it ( the video) established his apparent frame of mind.... Smarmie Doofus Nov 2014 #198

So he deserved to die because he pushed a clerk off of him? tia uponit7771 Nov 2014 #235

Disagree. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #29

look at it this way steve2470 Nov 2014 #34

I was stopped on occasion by the police as a teen. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #44

My recollection is Wilson said "what the fuck are you doing in the street ?" or.... steve2470 Nov 2014 #45

Wilson was not a smart cop. FLPanhandle Nov 2014 #47

100% agree, sir :) nt steve2470 Nov 2014 #48

At 18, I probably would have been apologetic yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #60

Of course, I wouldn't have been walking christx30 Nov 2014 #69

true steve2470 Nov 2014 #70

Traffic of no, christx30 Nov 2014 #85

I was stopped as a teen too... I was scared shitless because I'm black and they beat blacks in MO uponit7771 Nov 2014 #236

How? deist99 Nov 2014 #223

ok good for you, bye nt steve2470 Nov 2014 #252

No one in this OP chervilant Nov 2014 #39

You are 100% correct. gordianot Nov 2014 #43

Seems that everyone on this thread who deals with teens agrees adigal Nov 2014 #130

Seems like the police actually CAN avoid shooting.... Bigmack Nov 2014 #46

Absolutely there is a difference. How will it change? By wishing it to change? randome Nov 2014 #50

Many cops have a strong desire to have others show deference to their authority. Vattel Nov 2014 #51

If one takes the time to reach Dorian Johnson's testimony in KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #67

What really struck me about Dorian Johnson's testimony TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2014 #104

A fair-minded reading of Johnson's testimony suggests that he himself thought KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #124

So you think Brown had no conscience? XemaSab Nov 2014 #142

Nobody knows what Brown was thinking about the store incident. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #144

Who would have been on trial? XemaSab Nov 2014 #145

No, not Brown after he was killed. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #148

Do you make a practice of erecting straw men? Saying that Johnson's testimony KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #203

I owe you no such apology XemaSab Nov 2014 #215

I agree that it would not be strange at all for a police officer to obnoxiously bark out orders Vattel Nov 2014 #132

I think the language officers use today is abhorrent and Live and Learn Nov 2014 #146

amen Vattel Nov 2014 #227

If only people knew how Deputies treat County inmates. Socal31 Nov 2014 #273

What's not conflicting is 18 of the 20 eye witness's say Brown had his hands up... uponit7771 Nov 2014 #247

Wilson was a trained adult cop, but how was he trained? Jim__ Nov 2014 #57

Number one rule of cops, from what I understand, is "control the situation" bhikkhu Nov 2014 #58

I may be stepping into it here, but here goes . . . Brigid Nov 2014 #72

as a man but not a cop.... steve2470 Nov 2014 #75

An interesting question Lurks Often Nov 2014 #102

Not stepping in it at all. It has been shown that women officers are Live and Learn Nov 2014 #274

adigal..I wish I could rec your post more than once. You are absolutely correct truth2power Nov 2014 #77

Thank you for at excellent explanation! Maybe people will understand adigal Nov 2014 #133

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #150

This mother of 3 former teen boys (now adults) agrees. Arkansas Granny Nov 2014 #82

I have always found that treating them with respect and talking to them like they were adults Cleita Nov 2014 #93

It saddens me... liberalmuse Nov 2014 #94

Verbal judo the art of conflict defusion using words.... Historic NY Nov 2014 #97

He didn't *want* to de-escalate. He's a bully and a racist, and he tblue37 Nov 2014 #98

Excellent post. Teens are also very dangerously prone to peer R B Garr Nov 2014 #103

Same here, years with at-risk youth teaches one a LOT about themselves and humanity. NYC_SKP Nov 2014 #109

Well written War Horse Nov 2014 #110

To the its OK to shoot the 18-yr old because he is a "man" crowd, one question... Moostache Nov 2014 #111

excellent points about age nt steve2470 Nov 2014 #113

+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #151

Yes but cops don't work that way. Their entire job is to force a person into submission. Rex Nov 2014 #116

some of the comments in this thread heaven05 Nov 2014 #123

I completely agree indivisibleman Nov 2014 #134

of course heaven05 Nov 2014 #136

You just reminded me of something. indivisibleman Nov 2014 #249

damn good one heaven05 Nov 2014 #278

thank you. and indivisibleman Nov 2014 #280

+1 But I am also heartened to see so many that do understand the injustice Live and Learn Nov 2014 #152

I am glad to see the heaven05 Nov 2014 #158

+1 uponit7771 Nov 2014 #243

I see several comments about how police are trained and subsequently become bullies. brer cat Nov 2014 #139

One only need watch the cop or prison shows (if one can stomach it) to see that Live and Learn Nov 2014 #153

I don't watch those shows. brer cat Nov 2014 #172

Check out the actual recruiting video on this post to see Live and Learn Nov 2014 #176

Great comment and info, brer cat mike dub Nov 2014 #182

Yep, that is the thing I keep coming back to. brer cat Nov 2014 #186

Wilson was SUPPOSEDLY an adult, who SHOULD HAVE BEEN trained to defuse a situation! LongTomH Nov 2014 #143

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #200

De-escalate is great advice! Mike Nelson Nov 2014 #155

It is a scientific fact and is freely available with a minimal google search. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #163

I think that may be true... Mike Nelson Nov 2014 #213

I can agree with that. nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #216

Wiser words have not been spoken! n/t bobGandolf Nov 2014 #161

Exactly, Wilson was supposed to be (and hired & paid to be) the proverbial "adult in the room" 99th_Monkey Nov 2014 #164

It's definitely a mind-set... ReRe Nov 2014 #165

Wait a second... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #179

Even IF that is true XemaSab Nov 2014 #181

They probably would for the assault in commission of the robbery. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #183

I'm talking about just the cigars XemaSab Nov 2014 #184

So, he was just in the mood to punch a cop? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #185

Wilson didnt know that when he stopped Brown adigal Nov 2014 #207

Yeah, he kind of did. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #226

No ... he kind of didn't... they changed the story after the police chief said he didn't uponit7771 Nov 2014 #238

There is a radio recording of him asking if they need help searching... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #245

The question is which revision of the facts are we supposed to buy? BootinUp Nov 2014 #246

What revision of facts? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #248

Wilson has been working on this story that much we know BootinUp Nov 2014 #251

Exactly, and notice none of that is in a police report which R B Garr Nov 2014 #253

You skipped the part were Wilson didn't know of the robberty and back up his car into two teens uponit7771 Nov 2014 #237

Goes for kids of all ages and colors. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #188

Agreed - TBF Nov 2014 #190

Excellent! And the reason Wilson didn't call for back-up was probably R B Garr Nov 2014 #201

Defuse, use calm talk, humor and be respectful. Locrian Nov 2014 #217

My brothers....I must speak.... N.Y. to Paris Nov 2014 #233

Oh my - another one. nt TBF Nov 2014 #234

You care about helping teens. Not all cops do. Therein lies the difference. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #260

Not that it's needed but defacto7 Nov 2014 #272

We cannot expect law enforcement to exercise good judgment. Enthusiast Nov 2014 #275

Absolutely right. That same rule was how my fellow high school colleagues dealt with teens. It works ancianita Nov 2014 #276