General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

189. Maybe we should ask the French police how THEY handle these situations.

Fri Dec 26, 2014, 11:17 AM

Dec 2014

Their record of cops killing civilians is 0.

Maybe don't speed to a scene you don't know anything about, jump of the car and open fire without knowing what is going on.

I am sure there are thousands of incidents with armed people every year in this country where the cops do NOT rush to judgement and manage to deescalate the situation without blowing away a possible innocent person.

We are not in a war zone.

But that is the mentality of many cops these days.

In the situation under discussion, did they even try to communicate with the person, ask him to raise his hands, before jumping out of the car guns blazing?

They do have megaphones, many use them. This guy didn't.

There are also non lethal weapons that can be used. They are used on animals to subdue them, why not on humans?

Sorry but there are other options before instantly killing someone, and as we've seen so often now, sometimes even a child who never was a threat at all.

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All I need to see (St. Louis Shooting) [View all] _Blue_ Dec 2014 OP

It's a gun helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #1

Well... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #219

Welcome to DU alcibiades_mystery Dec 2014 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author MrScorpio Dec 2014 #3

even if that cigar is blurry as fuck?... lame54 Dec 2014 #4

It's drawn and pointed , he has a record of carrying an illegal gun and a history of violence helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #8

Actually, he didn't have a record carrying a gun. He was never charged Live and Learn Dec 2014 #77

He wasn't? Travelman Dec 2014 #150

See the article attached to post 1 of the following: Live and Learn Dec 2014 #157

Interesting. Travelman Dec 2014 #158

Or they decided there wasn't enough evidence. Live and Learn Dec 2014 #185

You can clearly see that the object he's pointing at the officer is in the shape of a gun. GGJohn Dec 2014 #9

there's that word clearly again lame54 Dec 2014 #14

Let me rephrase that. GGJohn Dec 2014 #21

no you can't lame54 Dec 2014 #87

Yes, I can. GGJohn Dec 2014 #88

thank you for clarifying that it is not that the shape of the gun is what makes you think that but uppityperson Dec 2014 #138

Your faith in the unknown is impressive. LanternWaste Dec 2014 #228

I would seem that I was justified in my faith. GGJohn Dec 2014 #231

FWIW the cop wasn't looking at the gif nt LiberalElite Dec 2014 #22

the point is... lame54 Dec 2014 #89

That's the best video of the shooting I've seen so far, GGJohn Dec 2014 #5

There's a post where a DU member froze the screen shot and blew it up a little helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #12

If he pulled a gun on the cop and pointed it at him Hutzpa Dec 2014 #6

Did you really need to start your own thread about it? randome Dec 2014 #7

The ability to see things differently seveneyes Dec 2014 #18

Show me the unedited/uncropped video then we can talk "Blue" n/t 951-Riverside Dec 2014 #10

It is getting weird on DU I've seen stubbornness that the cop must always be wrong treestar Dec 2014 #11

That cop is very lucky. pintobean Dec 2014 #13

My guess is safety Duckhunter935 Dec 2014 #17

My opinion is from Breaking Bad exboyfil Dec 2014 #84

Sometimes - and maybe even most of the time - the cop shooting the victim is justified. Chemisse Dec 2014 #73

Exactly treestar Dec 2014 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #80

once this place seizes on a narrative it generally doesnt let go shaayecanaan Dec 2014 #132

Why wasn't a call for help placed after the onecaliberal Dec 2014 #15

Because he was dead shaayecanaan Dec 2014 #119

Not according to his girlfriend.... onecaliberal Dec 2014 #128

Who wasn't there. Travelman Dec 2014 #151

I guess "clearly" means something different to you than it does to me, that is not a clear uppityperson Dec 2014 #16

Bullshit, that grainy ass picture shows nothing of the sort... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #19

haha _Blue_ Dec 2014 #20

Unfortunately you've got the percentages upside down. marble falls Dec 2014 #177

Oh jeez _Blue_ Dec 2014 #178

Wow joeglow3 Dec 2014 #213

I too have extensive training and experience in the use of firearms, pistol and rifle, GGJohn Dec 2014 #23

You see what you want, as you have in every cop giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #26

No, I see what is obvious to any fair thinking person., GGJohn Dec 2014 #29

He had a grocery bag still in his right hand, he brought giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #99

A fucking 9mm won't knock a guy that size off balance, GGJohn Dec 2014 #106

You have no idea how big that guy is... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #110

Does it matter? _Blue_ Dec 2014 #113

No kidding. Travelman Dec 2014 #153

You can tell by the video he's an average sized man, GGJohn Dec 2014 #117

Ha ha ha, funny you were a fuckin officer weren't u? giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #121

No, I was an Attack Helicopter pilot with over 40 years in. GGJohn Dec 2014 #125

That is one point I will apologize for mocking u for. giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #134

No problem and I apologize for getting a little too hot under the collar with you, GGJohn Dec 2014 #135

To u as well... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #136

FWIW, I think you have been pretty fair in your history on cop issues. You seem to call them out.... Logical Dec 2014 #120

Thank you. GGJohn Dec 2014 #122

I agree this current shooting is a good one. Cop had no choice. nt Logical Dec 2014 #123

There's the accusation treestar Dec 2014 #92

So fucking what if he only has 21 posts? GGJohn Dec 2014 #24

Apparently, my post count is directly proportional to the likelihood it was a firearm. _Blue_ Dec 2014 #44

It would seem so. GGJohn Dec 2014 #47

No, your post count & reccs are directly related to the giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #55

Stop, plz just stop. GGJohn Dec 2014 #57

So now I'm a fool for pointing out the obvious?? giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #66

Weren't you a low count poster at one time? GGJohn Dec 2014 #70

She still is. It's a matter of perspective pintobean Dec 2014 #81

Yep, I still consider myself a low post count member. GGJohn Dec 2014 #83

groan 840high Dec 2014 #86

Welcome to DU. 840high Dec 2014 #74

Not a firing stance, you say? NickB79 Dec 2014 #25

and that's not at all how he was standing... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #27

Not at all? Bullshit NickB79 Dec 2014 #28

I'm calling bull on her knowledge of firearms and stances. GGJohn Dec 2014 #30

Well it's a good thing I don't have shit to prove to you then giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #33

You have nothing to prove because you have nothing to offer in the way of firearms experience GGJohn Dec 2014 #34

Well, some people are claiming that it's a cell phone pintobean Dec 2014 #35

Orrrr maybe he whipped it out to film his encounter... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #46

Logic and probability have to be suspended pintobean Dec 2014 #50

Really, because the need to film police encounters as giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #59

Well, Mr. Martin wasn't whipping out and pointing a camera pintobean Dec 2014 #63

Well of course he wasn't, says almighty pintobean... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #69

Pintobean has as much right to an opinion as you treestar Dec 2014 #95

No one said they didn't. eom giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #101

I have an opinion of pintobean Dec 2014 #114

Says his friend who was with him pintobean Dec 2014 #225

Yeah, because people always whip out their cellphones, point them at police like a gun GGJohn Dec 2014 #56

that might be an issue worth considering treestar Dec 2014 #94

A shooting stance huh? giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author GGJohn Dec 2014 #53

A 9mm doesn't have a very powerful recoil, it is not like he is shooting doc03 Dec 2014 #65

I can take the same stance as that guy in the video and shoot my .45 w/o it GGJohn Dec 2014 #75

You are right; I'm a small woman. cwydro Dec 2014 #97

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #162

while you and your less than 2000 posts are so superior? TorchTheWitch Dec 2014 #72

Oh yeah? Fuckin 18 with soooooo many crimes but yet giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #93

It isn't odd at all. Ace Rothstein Dec 2014 #100

Not supposedly Armed Robbery as they claim the giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #107

Based on everything I've read, it is difficult to conclude he was not violent. Ace Rothstein Dec 2014 #116

He was accused of armed robbery but never charged giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #133

Carrying a bag of groceries doesn't sound violent to me, either. n/t. freshwest Dec 2014 #226

Doesn't get much more violent than pointing a gun at someone. Ace Rothstein Dec 2014 #229

You're making assumptions based on something you giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #235

Well, it turns out those of us that said that video showed he was pointing a gun at the officer GGJohn Dec 2014 #236

No, once again it turns out the cops are claiming... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #239

None are so blind as those that won't see. GGJohn Dec 2014 #240

Here is what you are calling Klan land pintobean Dec 2014 #241

Why is it so hard for you to admit you were wrong? GGJohn Dec 2014 #243

Im not making any assumptions. Ace Rothstein Dec 2014 #238

In what neighborhood have there been people killed every time a cop rolls up? treestar Dec 2014 #103

alert shaayecanaan Dec 2014 #104

Thank you for posting this.... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #108

No fuckin problem nt shaayecanaan Dec 2014 #115

Juror # 6? Jackpine Radical Dec 2014 #227

This was telling of several things. None of them good. n/t flvegan Dec 2014 #127

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Dec 2014 #184

It wasn't hate speech nor was it ever intended to be... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #202

Thank you for this post. cwydro Dec 2014 #98

That was from the heart, people have no idea what we giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #109

Street criminals often don't go to the range working on their stance...nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #82

No, they go other places... giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #90

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #160

This message was self-deleted by its author rakeeb Dec 2014 #182

"That isn't even a firing stance" rakeeb Dec 2014 #186

I can't tell what's going on in that clip at all. I don't see how anyone could base a judgement on NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #223

There's been a second angle released that shows what could have been a cell phone justiceischeap Dec 2014 #31

execpt that it was actually Niceguy1 Dec 2014 #38

Huh? If you look at the video, the 'screen' in the screen cap is a circle of light from a flashlight X_Digger Dec 2014 #51

All that video shows is the friend running away ManiacJoe Dec 2014 #64

He ran like hell into the store..... Historic NY Dec 2014 #102

What about the third video... Historic NY Dec 2014 #112

Because he's scared justiceischeap Dec 2014 #129

An alternative theory could be that he attempted to fire but failed, in the heat of the moment, GGJohn Dec 2014 #131

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #163

this is the best angle I've seen, the young man raises phone or gun cop pulls his gun shoots tire wh juxtaposed Dec 2014 #137

Because distance is your friend. ManiacJoe Dec 2014 #168

I dont see a gun randys1 Dec 2014 #32

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #164

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #194

you really needed your own thread for this mess. rbrnmw Dec 2014 #36

What motives someone to so DESPERATELY need to see a gun in that picture? randys1 Dec 2014 #37

Because that's what it is. GGJohn Dec 2014 #39

Did I start a thread EMOTIONALLY insisting it ISNT a gun? no, but that is what we have here randys1 Dec 2014 #42

I suspect they feel a need to defend cops rbrnmw Dec 2014 #41

Not just cops but cops in certain situations, but yes, always defending cops randys1 Dec 2014 #43

On the other hand LincolnsLeftHand Dec 2014 #48

Public servants? You mean cops, and certain groups of people can have that luxury randys1 Dec 2014 #49

yep I love that man rbrnmw Dec 2014 #67

I mean that the thousands of people who put their lives on the line to protect others LincolnsLeftHand Dec 2014 #71

One day in and a hidden post Long Drive Dec 2014 #124

Really? sheshe2 Dec 2014 #62

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #165

And not calling an ambulance? sheshe2 Dec 2014 #175

Ding ding ding giftedgirl77 Dec 2014 #54

I'm not seeing objectivity at all on the anti-cop side treestar Dec 2014 #105

This is the pot calling the kettle black treestar Dec 2014 #96

what motivates people to so desperately see it as something else? shaayecanaan Dec 2014 #130

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #166

Thanks for posting this LincolnsLeftHand Dec 2014 #45

So now many DU members are uneducated, knee jerk finger pointers? randys1 Dec 2014 #52

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #60

Well said I agree 100%, if that is how it went down. But there are some here that doc03 Dec 2014 #58

^^^This^^^ GGJohn Dec 2014 #61

I can't imagine holding chickenfairy Dec 2014 #68

Looks like suicide by cop to me madville Dec 2014 #76

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #167

I'm sold...justified but.... bobGandolf Dec 2014 #78

The body cams and car cams are going to be one fucking huge waste of money. HUGE. n/t djean111 Dec 2014 #85

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #169

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #196

Because of recent events, my initial reaction to stories like this is skepticism tularetom Dec 2014 #79

True, but it still leaves a lot of unanswered questions. Live and Learn Dec 2014 #143

I confess I'm not sure what prompted this incident... classof56 Dec 2014 #111

I agree that it is not relevant treestar Dec 2014 #118

As Denzel Washington put it so aptly in Training Day, GGJohn Dec 2014 #126

do you need to know someone's history or anything else about them TorchTheWitch Dec 2014 #171

TTW, I appreciate your reply. classof56 Dec 2014 #200

How come the police in other civilized countries do not shoot suspects to death even sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #139

In which country is deadly force not the typical response to a deadly threat? _Blue_ Dec 2014 #140

Just about every civilized country except this one. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #144

So the officer was supposed to wait to see if the guy was going to shoot or not? GGJohn Dec 2014 #141

Yeah, in the US that IS the only possible option that occurs to the police. Shoot first, never, ever sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #145

What other option? GGJohn Dec 2014 #147

How was this an "ambush"? uppityperson Dec 2014 #148

Maybe not an ambush in the true sense, GGJohn Dec 2014 #149

If it was not an ambush, why call it one? Any time someone has "bad intentions", does uppityperson Dec 2014 #152

You're right, I'll edit it. GGJohn Dec 2014 #154

thank you and merry happy etc uppityperson Dec 2014 #155

Back atcha. GGJohn Dec 2014 #156

I'm no cop lover Boreal Dec 2014 #173

Maybe we should ask the French police how THEY handle these situations. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #189

Why don't you show us where in the video the cop jumped out of his car guns ablazing? GGJohn Dec 2014 #191

I wasn't referring to this one incident, I was referring to the number of other incidents sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #208

Jesus Christ!!!!! GGJohn Dec 2014 #209

I hate that too. So my apologies, I do not know everyone on this forum and sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #211

No problem. GGJohn Dec 2014 #212

BTW, in the earlier post? GGJohn Dec 2014 #210

Yes, it was badly written. I was thinking of the other incident, but did conflate the two. sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #214

Thank you. GGJohn Dec 2014 #215

Other countries have much stricter gun laws. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #142

You may be correct, but I seldom see someone takes such joy in someone dying. Nt Logical Dec 2014 #146

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #159

If that's the best you've got, then you've got nothing. baldguy Dec 2014 #170

"All you need to see is the color of Antonio Martin's skin." pintobean Dec 2014 #176

All you need to see is the color of Antonio Martin's skin? GGJohn Dec 2014 #180

A "gun" with a glowing LCD screen? That seems to have disappeared from the crime scene baldguy Dec 2014 #220

That "glowing LCD screen"? That was the cops flashlight. GGJohn Dec 2014 #221

Except that it isn't a reflection. baldguy Dec 2014 #222

Nevermind about what you saw… what about the witness in the picture? MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #172

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #174

All I need to see is the whole video. rgbecker Dec 2014 #179

What is that cop's name and was he tested for steroids or meth after the shooting? - nt KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #187

Why should he be? GGJohn Dec 2014 #188

In case he was operating 'under the influence' during the encounter with KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #192

What makes you think he was? GGJohn Dec 2014 #193

The fact that he shot first and never asked questions. Doesn't make me think 'he was' (your KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #195

He shot first? GGJohn Dec 2014 #198

"never asked questions" pintobean Dec 2014 #199

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #197

You joined up for this? Capt. Obvious Dec 2014 #181

it appears so rbrnmw Dec 2014 #183

Judging from the video, it appears there was no resolution. Capt. Obvious Dec 2014 #190

Yes, anti-police brutality is different than anti-police. PeteSelman Dec 2014 #201

So then you are saying this was suicide by cop... SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #203

Maybe it was a sandwich pintobean Dec 2014 #204

We must be blind or stupid SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #205

I can tell _Blue_ Dec 2014 #216

+1000. eom GGJohn Dec 2014 #217

"The shooting was clearly justified." MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #218

You can tell looking at that video that what you are seeing is a gun in that mans hand. SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #224

One thing IS *Clear* Schema Thing Dec 2014 #206

So if it was a cellphone chickenfairy Dec 2014 #207

Side comment on cell-phone picture taking. haele Dec 2014 #232

Well, here are some answers pintobean Dec 2014 #233

Gun or not aren't most if not all police shootings found to be justified? damnedifIknow Dec 2014 #230

HOORAY! Feral Child Dec 2014 #234

That CLEARLY negates all the unarmed black kids murdered by cops, now doesn't it? GGJohn Dec 2014 #237

It didn't need to be said, it was CLEARLY implied. Feral Child Dec 2014 #258

No, it wasn't implied, not even close. GGJohn Dec 2014 #259

Yes, I remember. Feral Child Dec 2014 #260

This message was self-deleted by its author GGJohn Dec 2014 #261

Notice the missing avatar? They made it to 106, thanks EarlG! uppityperson Dec 2014 #242

buh bye... tenderfoot Dec 2014 #244

Funny how you see a gun marym625 Dec 2014 #245

It was a gun. Ace Rothstein Dec 2014 #246

You are aware of the presser today by the Chief? GGJohn Dec 2014 #247

I am aware of the press conference marym625 Dec 2014 #248

Including the man that was with Martin, GGJohn Dec 2014 #249

I am extremely skeptical marym625 Dec 2014 #250

So you don't believe the several witnesses, again, including the guy who was with him GGJohn Dec 2014 #251

Why haven't any of the witnesses come forward marym625 Dec 2014 #252

Bye bye, Blue MrScorpio Dec 2014 #253

Who whips out a gun that slowly? ecstatic Dec 2014 #254

According to the witnesses, including the man who was with Martin, GGJohn Dec 2014 #255

You know as well as I do that facts won't matter if the person doesn't want them. Action_Patrol Dec 2014 #256

Yeah, I'm seeing that. GGJohn Dec 2014 #257