General Discussion

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)

122. "Spectacular"?

Sun Dec 28, 2014, 10:59 AM

Dec 2014

The Cold War, the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, the CIA running all over Central and South America, race riots, social upheaval, assassinations, Dixiecrats, etc.

And, yes, it does require huge numbers to govern, particularly when the number of people to be governed is huge.

At a minimum you'll need (435 + 100 + 1) * 0.51 untainted, good-hearted, right-minded people to pass the laws you want. You can't even get that many people to agree with things here on DU.

And in case you find representative government to be too messy remember that people can applaud someone like de Blasio all they want but without a police force he's powerless.

And then there are the bureaucrats. Those who are never fired in spite of the recurring debacles, waste, fraud and abuse (QED VA).

And that's even assuming the people want what you're offering. Many laws are simply ignored.

Humanity was created / evolved in a state of anarchy. Yes, people do organize but these massive nation states are an aberration to humanity's natural state. That is why, as your OP title observes, nation states don't work.

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American Democracy Is A Failure [View all] WillTwain Dec 2014 OP

A how do we start changing this, by getting good candidates to run and then voting every Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #1

Won't happen. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #2

It does not look good. WillTwain Dec 2014 #5

That's my attitude. The system needs to collapse. Democracy may or may not take hold again but Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #7

Can you promise that the new system will be better? FrodosPet Dec 2014 #13

We came out of the Great Depression with the New Deal WillTwain Dec 2014 #16

I just would like to know heaven05 Dec 2014 #25

People are suffering now in large and growing numbers. WillTwain Dec 2014 #30

Oh, you're looking at the big picture, are you heaven05 Dec 2014 #40

Maybe I am wrong but what is your solution? WillTwain Dec 2014 #45

Massive demonstrations heaven05 Dec 2014 #91

Boycotts Will Work WillTwain Dec 2014 #102

But the people of Europe & Japan suffered a lot during WW2 and its aftermath, just as you fear the NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #84

History is replete heaven05 Dec 2014 #87

It could never happen again. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #109

Did I say the new system would be better? Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #17

an eirc hoffer quote that fits DonCoquixote Dec 2014 #74

You know, in retrospect...nt Anansi1171 Dec 2014 #55

Are you one of the problems or one of the solutions? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #8

Neither. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #9

Then change and become one of the solutions. Even if you are not an eligible voter then Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #11

Not anymore. I did that with Obama, worked on his campaign, canvassed. Twice. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #18

We need to get beyond Obama WillTwain Dec 2014 #19

I would get involved for Warren or Sanders or someone that wasnt a marketing gimmick. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #20

Wow, dramatic move. I do not blame you. Northern Europe? WillTwain Dec 2014 #26

Either Northern Europe or Japan, since i am hafu (half Japanese) Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #43

We built a home in the northern Andes. Puglover Dec 2014 #99

I like the way you think. pangaia Dec 2014 #129

Okay, then there are choices, I choose to stay and work towards getting Democrats elected. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #27

Was I complaining? American is experiencing cultural Darwinism is all. Looks like it doesn't Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #47

I havent been complaining though. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #100

Then do not get upset when things goes against you, how many republicans do you think Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #24

Again, you seem to think, that I think, we will have even a remotely working system Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #52

Do you have a name of a Republican who votes the way you want? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #57

Are you capable of reading anything I said? Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #64

I have read what you said, did you read the question I ask? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #79

You said "Do you have a name of a Republican who votes the way you want?" Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #90

Her voting record proves you wrong on this but cognitive dissonance helps those who wants to Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #94

How many democrats are going to help th�m? CentralMass Dec 2014 #78

Let's start with those who voted for minimun wage increase. Did it get passed, no Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #82

So the messiah wasn't all that LiberalElite Dec 2014 #48

Same here. maddiemom Dec 2014 #60

It is more than just warding off the republicans. We must vote, yes. WillTwain Dec 2014 #3

This is a problem, we are looking for solutions, allowing GOP candidates to win is not a solution. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #10

Right...but WillTwain Dec 2014 #12

Exactly Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #21

The numbers are on the side of Democrats, why are we losing elections? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #22

Dems need a decent candidate to vote for. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #32

Thank you. nt LiberalElite Dec 2014 #49

Proof positive - Sherrod Brown. HughBeaumont Dec 2014 #119

Sherrod could be a political star with that gravely voice and likable personality. WillTwain Dec 2014 #124

I'd vote for him! And canvas too, here in his home state. RiverLover Dec 2014 #125

Will he take a V.P. spot? WillTwain Dec 2014 #127

We need to vote but they are uninspired with the lack of positive change WillTwain Dec 2014 #34

Because many democrats are damn fools! They sit home and don't vote somehow RKP5637 Dec 2014 #44

I have never missed a vote and it is not always easy to vote dem but I do. WillTwain Dec 2014 #50

Same here. I always vote, research each candidate and also elected judges. I don't care for RKP5637 Dec 2014 #54

Oh boy! maddiemom Dec 2014 #62

Until we get rid of the legalized bribery called "campaign contributions," we will continue to go Dustlawyer Dec 2014 #70

Too much money in politics for elections to matter project_bluebook Dec 2014 #37

For ex, Democrats who voted for the CRomnibus have received 2xs as much $$ from the finance industry RiverLover Dec 2014 #112

The Beat Goes On WillTwain Dec 2014 #113

I wish Bernie did but will never happen. project_bluebook Dec 2014 #130

Oh, there's another alternative. 99Forever Dec 2014 #4

This is very possible WillTwain Dec 2014 #6

I don't think our founding fathers ever imagined the extent to which greed could dominate our lives DrDan Dec 2014 #14

They did not imagine much of what we now live in WillTwain Dec 2014 #15

America never was and isnt a democracy 951-Riverside Dec 2014 #23

That's a Puke talking point. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #29

America isnt even a Democratic Republic 951-Riverside Dec 2014 #69

No, but it is supposed to be. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #88

It is not a democracy but a representative plutocracy jeepers Dec 2014 #58

Boring MFrohike Dec 2014 #72

I'll be crucified for saying this, but a benvolent dictatorship is looking better every day. Odin2005 Dec 2014 #28

FDR was as close as we ever got and it was great. WillTwain Dec 2014 #31

My thinking is that most Americans think only about the president when... Odin2005 Dec 2014 #35

Very True WillTwain Dec 2014 #42

Yes, that is what will be needed, another FDR, and a populace that gets their RKP5637 Dec 2014 #53

I am selling out. Buying an M.B.A. from Capella University and conquering the world. WillTwain Dec 2014 #56

... RKP5637 Dec 2014 #63

Heh. Did you ever see the anime series Higashi no Eden (Eden of the East)? unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #61

Sounds interesting! Odin2005 Dec 2014 #89

The problem is, the "benevolent dictatorship" would never end. A dictator can just extend their chrisa Dec 2014 #104

Benevolent is the key word WillTwain Dec 2014 #106

There isn't such a thing, imo. A dictator is a dictator. None can ever be trusted. chrisa Dec 2014 #107

It will need to be some sort of revolution. Maybe an occupy Wall Street derivative. WillTwain Dec 2014 #114

It definitely needs some heavy tweaking. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2014 #33

The system was a failed experiment from the onset. 2banon Dec 2014 #36

Like Great Britain, the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. WillTwain Dec 2014 #39

Even the "best" player on a team is not necessarily "good" world wide wally Dec 2014 #38

A recipe for feudalism WillTwain Dec 2014 #41

Feudalism or maybe more like a Dickens novel with the aristocracy and the working poor world wide wally Dec 2014 #46

Who da thunk it 50 years ago? WillTwain Dec 2014 #51

My take (a summary) rock Dec 2014 #59

Any good society of any flavor Needs that Demeter Dec 2014 #67

Very true n/t rock Dec 2014 #76

Occupy taught us to not have leaders FrodosPet Dec 2014 #135

Sad but true. JDPriestly Dec 2014 #65

It is working very well for,,,, Cryptoad Dec 2014 #66

Cryptoad WillTwain Dec 2014 #68

Critical Reading is Critical Cryptoad Dec 2014 #75

Come on man WillTwain Dec 2014 #77

LOL. You will learn who around here actually wants to have a discussion Rex Dec 2014 #81

then don't accuse people of things they didn't do........ Cryptoad Dec 2014 #85

Actually, it's working pretty shitty for the majority of those who actually vote, but ... dawg Dec 2014 #93

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It" Prism Dec 2014 #71

What has failed democracy is legalized bribery. closeupready Dec 2014 #73

OH, Europe is well-corrupted Demeter Dec 2014 #86

Yes but democracy is not important, it turns out capitalism was the only thing that mattered. Rex Dec 2014 #80

Mr. Madison's Republic rested on one key premise above all others: hifiguy Dec 2014 #83

100 years ago the conservative German historian Oswald Spengler argued... Odin2005 Dec 2014 #92

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT Dec 2014 #96

Our founding fathers were slave owners. randome Dec 2014 #95

dictatorship....if only.... ileus Dec 2014 #97

We can start building our own systems CJCRANE Dec 2014 #98

I'd say it has always been a failure. Oakenshield Dec 2014 #101

Interesting outlook. but wanting an Authoritarian government isn't going to fix our problems chrisa Dec 2014 #103

wtf. The Founders didn't "fail" us; we failed ourselves. It's the job of every new generation to ... Hekate Dec 2014 #105

Sickening ain't it? Enthusiast Dec 2014 #108

Most people are conservaties at heart. raouldukelives Dec 2014 #110

Conservatism is about fear and these are scary times. This sways wishy washy types to the right. WillTwain Dec 2014 #115

Most good ideas eventually fail due to human nature. FirstClassTicket Dec 2014 #111

But the earth is only 6000 years old. It cannot be evolution. Sarcasm. Europe is taking the approach WillTwain Dec 2014 #117

If so few people are capable of governing themselves how fewer are capable of governing others? nt Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #116

It does not require huge numbers to govern. America thrived from FDR to Carter. WillTwain Dec 2014 #118

Favorite post to date!!!!!! RiverLover Dec 2014 #121

"Spectacular"? Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #122

We had smaller numbers governing between 1930 and 1980. WillTwain Dec 2014 #123

How long has it been since Long and Roosevelt? Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2014 #133

Long was the greatest populist and was looking to run against Roosevelt when he was shot. WillTwain Dec 2014 #134

Moneygrubbing rulez! moondust Dec 2014 #120

We should let the south secede. WillTwain Dec 2014 #126

... cyberswede Dec 2014 #128

Why do you think this moment is the End Result For All Time...? lunatica Dec 2014 #131

Democracy is the worst form of government... EX500rider Dec 2014 #132