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KingCharlemagne

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192. Please allow me to revise my request: Can we simply agree that, had France not

Reply to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #186)

Wed Jan 7, 2015, 02:29 PM

Jan 2015

colonized the Middle East before and after 1918, there would be no ongoing casus belli?

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BREAKING. AT LEAST 10 DEATH IN PARIS SHOOTING. [View all] mylye2222 Jan 2015 OP

For those not in the know JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #1

Yes, and apparently the same motivation this time, with 12 now reported dead. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #43

In the same building? Orsino Jan 2015 #158

The magazine is like a sophisticated CRACKED or MAD Magazine, with a socio-political bent. MADem Jan 2015 #2

Murdering people in cold blood cwydro Jan 2015 #19

You need to stop looking for a "gotcha" moment and actually READ what people write. MADem Jan 2015 #26

You wrote - cwydro Jan 2015 #29

Try reading the sentence BEFORE that one, why don't you? There's no "ambiguity' if you READ. MADem Jan 2015 #45

You're obviously an angry person. cwydro Jan 2015 #57

Ha, ha--yet another insult/accusation/attack! Is that the only way you can converse? MADem Jan 2015 #72

Ok dear MAD cwydro Jan 2015 #113

No, I think YOU need to do the looking back--you didn't "simply ask a question" -- you accused and MADem Jan 2015 #133

So passive aggressive is your thing? Agschmid Jan 2015 #86

The sentence before doesn't make the phrase "Muslim push-back" any clearer, pnwmom Jan 2015 #157

Gee, you think asking rather than accusing would be a better way to go, rather than suggesting that MADem Jan 2015 #175

Thank you. cwydro Jan 2015 #178

Uh, yes there was, I read it the same way Warpy Jan 2015 #230

Sorry you had such difficulty. It isn't complicated. MADem Jan 2015 #234

If you found it ambiguous you could have requested clarification tkmorris Jan 2015 #107

No, I did not find it ambiguous cwydro Jan 2015 #115

I misunderstood MADem in the same way, and I didn't find it ambiguous. pnwmom Jan 2015 #159

The first sentence made it clear nt treestar Jan 2015 #130

Not to me. To me, the "Muslim push-back" referred to the act of terrorism pnwmom Jan 2015 #155

That makes no sense if read in the context of the preceding sentence. nt MADem Jan 2015 #188

The preceding sentence must be read in the context of the OP it responded to. pnwmom Jan 2015 #191

The poster wasted no time accusing me of thinking murder was "OK." MADem Jan 2015 #202

Unfortunately, there are people on this board who could have made your comment pnwmom Jan 2015 #204

I will reiterate that one only pushes BACK when one is first PUSHED. MADem Jan 2015 #207

Not quite Hutzpa Jan 2015 #193

That's only if you think the "Muslim push-back" was a reference to the sentence immediately pnwmom Jan 2015 #198

Well, of course it was--it was all in the same paragraph. MADem Jan 2015 #205

+1 It is getting egregious. treestar Jan 2015 #129

Oh my. cwydro Jan 2015 #179

+1 MADem Hekate Jan 2015 #239

The cartoons were push-back. This is murder. nt Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #27

yes cwydro Jan 2015 #38

Good grief, READ. MADem Jan 2015 #47

As an example of what you're saying madokie Jan 2015 #125

Yes, exactly--at a risk of inciting a kerfluffle, it's that "privilege" thing at work. MADem Jan 2015 #134

Here is a third person misunderstanding your meaning. Maybe you should change your post pnwmom Jan 2015 #160

Well, it's a spit decision. It's perfectly clear at this stage, but thanks for your input. MADem Jan 2015 #172

In general, I agree that asking is better. But in this case, the poster pnwmom Jan 2015 #195

No--in this case, the poster accused me of endorsing slaughter. I didn't take it well. MADem Jan 2015 #197

I agree that often the word "so" followed by a question ends in an insulting conclusion -- pnwmom Jan 2015 #200

I think that horse has long left the barn. MADem Jan 2015 #213

The French have been under attack from Muslims for years. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #42

Oh, those poor French. You know, maybe if France hadn't invaded and occupied parts of North Africa KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #52

So of course assassinating leftynyc Jan 2015 #61

The person to whom I responded asserted that the French were "under attack KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #99

Do you really mean to leftynyc Jan 2015 #101

Let me be clear: pissing and moaning that the French are 'under attack by Muslims' represents KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #106

So they can piss and moan about leftynyc Jan 2015 #118

Not exactly. But, if you want to get a sense of the monumental crimes KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #126

I know all about the mess in Algeria leftynyc Jan 2015 #127

And the post that spawned your subthread said that France was under attack by Muslims KittyWampus Jan 2015 #146

So you're ok with this attack because the French are, in your words, MUCKING AROUND IN SYRIA? GGJohn Jan 2015 #124

No one is suggesting that this attack is "OK." Why in hell do all conversations on DU devolve to MADem Jan 2015 #190

Good post. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #201

No one ever remembers what the West is doing in malaise Jan 2015 #142

"An eye for an eye" means nothing to these murderers. There is no sense of balance in their minds. randome Jan 2015 #144

That's precisely what they think of all of us in the West malaise Jan 2015 #150

Mark Twain's comments about the so-called 'Reign of Terror' KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #166

Mark Twain is my guru malaise Jan 2015 #209

I think what Twain's narrator was getting at in that passage I cited is that people get KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #214

And of course he was correct malaise Jan 2015 #222

Not sure how you got to that response after reading my post. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #73

Well, you used the phrase "under attack by Muslims." Funny, but the KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #97

Pretty sure no French cartoonists invaded Muslim lands. Union Scribe Jan 2015 #94

For your ongoing amusement, you might find the following article of interest: KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #103

Do you think this could be a false flag operation? philosslayer Jan 2015 #139

It's been quite some time since I paid close attention to internal French affairs. I remember the KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #141

And Charlie Hebdo is a left wing satirical magazine muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #161

Sigh. I brought up Algeria and Syria not to excuse this attack nor to KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #164

Bollocks - of course #52 was to try to excuse/provide a reason for the attack muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #168

Bollocks back at ya. I take it then you agree with post #42 that spawned this KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #169

I don't particularly agree with that analysis, but it's true that there have been muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #173

Sigh. Can we at least agree that, had the French not stuck their noses into the Middle East after KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #177

No, I don't think that's a reasonable way to put it muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #186

Please allow me to revise my request: Can we simply agree that, had France not KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #192

No, I can't agree with that muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #228

Point of information: AOL is now reporting that the 3 arrested were all KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #249

I doubt it in this case LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #255

All 3 were of Algerian descent, according to AOL. One is entitled to ask just how and why it KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #257

I have changed and updated that in line with current info; but even so, all of them were born long LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #260

Yes, I saw a report in passing (can't remember where now) that one of the 3 said he KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #261

This has nothing to do with Algeria; it is some insane religious nutcases on a murderous rampage LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #251

They may be "insane religious nutcases on a murderous rampage," but AOL is reporting KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #253

Oh good Gawd!!!!! Are you serious?!? GGJohn Jan 2015 #147

Incredibly unlikely, I think LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #259

They didn't have to allow immigration to France itself treestar Jan 2015 #131

For over 300 years, the N. African Moslem caliphates murdered and enslaved thousands aint_no_life_nowhere Jan 2015 #250

I'll let Sir Winston Churchill respond to your "poor murdering Arabs" line: KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #252

I don't think you're the real King Charlemagne at all. mathematic Jan 2015 #254

And there are many, MANY Muslims who will suffer in France because of those assholes, who have not MADem Jan 2015 #53

Agree with everything you typed. nt. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #76

This is the rhetoric that Far-Right Politicians in pretty much every European country use KittyWampus Jan 2015 #143

This is completely oversimplified... LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #258

This isn't "Muslim push-back." It's fundamentalist terrorism.n/t pnwmom Jan 2015 #154

I certainly hope there is more push-back from the remaining Charlie Hebdo staff GoneOffShore Jan 2015 #256

Terrorism is terrorism and guess who are the ones doing it. This time over a cartoon. Those demosincebirth Jan 2015 #262

The ones doing it are lunatics--but "Islam" doesn't, in and of itself, breed them. MADem Jan 2015 #265

your comparisons are as lopsided as a square tire demosincebirth Jan 2015 #266

It's time to put boots on the ground. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #3

I have some boots I can send pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #8

Since France was the original (European) imperial power to occupy Vietnam, I can think of KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #49

When I worked at the Wall I met a visitor who had been a French paratrooper in VN pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #64

Do you remember if he was French Foreign Legion or regular French Army? As imperial KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #217

Regular Army, I think pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #226

This worked so well in Iraq and Afghanistan. ellenrr Jan 2015 #11

+1. Nt newfie11 Jan 2015 #13

Do you have a better solution? whathehell Jan 2015 #80

We need more U.N.C.L.E.; less T.H.R.U.S.H. HereSince1628 Jan 2015 #95

Uh huh. whathehell Jan 2015 #105

U.N.C.L.E.: the ficticious United Nations Command for Law and Enforcement HereSince1628 Jan 2015 #117

Clear evidence the West must at least pass laws banning hoodies? HereSince1628 Jan 2015 #14

No, just cross your fingers and hope for the best. randome Jan 2015 #17

Pull my finger pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #25

LOL.. whathehell Jan 2015 #79

12 people are dead in Paris. Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #18

It's also in Texas. nt justiceischeap Jan 2015 #32

Two in Canada, Paris Ontario and Yukon...in the US.... Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #88

Satire, or your real opinion? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #162

Well... CJCRANE Jan 2015 #167

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #4

A quibble: 'local hour' doesn't really mean anything except to you. Wherever you are. randome Jan 2015 #5

I think the OP cwydro Jan 2015 #20

D'oh! randome Jan 2015 #89

BREAKING. 12 death mylye2222 Jan 2015 #6

Every French magazine and newspaper should run satirical cartoons about Mohammed as a response dissentient Jan 2015 #7

Don't you think it's strange France supports extremist rebels in Syria CJCRANE Jan 2015 #9

How nice of the murderous scum who leftynyc Jan 2015 #16

But we support that "scum" CJCRANE Jan 2015 #23

Past mistakes are no reason for future mistakes. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #28

That's not the past. This is right now in an ongoing war we support. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #31

That does not give them license to murder people in the streets. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #33

I agree but if we finance extremism it is going to increase. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #39

But the magazine is targeted for failing to observe Islamic rules about what may be said! Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #46

Often it's scum vs scum in these decisions. Renew Deal Jan 2015 #34

Don't pretend that's what happened here leftynyc Jan 2015 #50

These groups have a lot more money and support now CJCRANE Jan 2015 #59

Taunting them should be the least they should do, these despicable terrorists need to be hunted dissentient Jan 2015 #21

We support that scum in other countries CJCRANE Jan 2015 #24

I'm getting really tired of these insane Islamic terrorists attacking Australia, France and the dissentient Jan 2015 #30

Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad kept a lid on the crazies. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #36

I agree that our Western foreign policy has been a complete disaster dissentient Jan 2015 #48

Exactly. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #85

Wow. joshcryer Jan 2015 #98

You make a lot of cogent arguments, America has increased the world supply of terrorists, on Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #110

+1000. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #83

Much as the super secret plan Cracked Magazine was involved in during 2010 LanternWaste Jan 2015 #114

Western muslims who support the Syrian rebels also support sharia law in the west. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #136

these terrorists don't give a shit about fucked up things we have done like torture JI7 Jan 2015 #235

That's not my point at all. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #263

One should not. possiblylogical Jan 2015 #123

Remember when that crazy preacher in Florida wanted to burn the Koran? philosslayer Jan 2015 #140

this is terrible. I am so sad for these people that lost their lives, ellenrr Jan 2015 #10

There were three recent "Allahu Akbar" incidents in France in which drivers attacked pedestrians Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #51

The right wing crackdown nilesobek Jan 2015 #12

These aren't "Muslims." These are extremist nuts. They're no more "Muslim" than the idiots who MADem Jan 2015 #77

"No True Scotsman" fallacy. Quantess Jan 2015 #145

However, nilesobek talked about 'enforcing their own laws', which implies a Muslim community muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #165

Yes, muslim extremists. Quantess Jan 2015 #174

They are Muslims; they are also men muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #176

That much is true. Quantess Jan 2015 #182

Most Imams would call them infidels. MADem Jan 2015 #196

Feel free to look up "no true scotsman". Quantess Jan 2015 #208

I ASKED. I think you maybe need to look up "strawman" because I didn't build one at all. MADem Jan 2015 #211

...which all sounds like a classic "no true scotsman" fallacy. Quantess Jan 2015 #215

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day at work. nt MADem Jan 2015 #225

What absolute nonsense! mr blur Jan 2015 #181

What are you saying? Please be VERY specific. Are you actually trying to suggest that the conduct MADem Jan 2015 #187

Where did they get the idea that images of this muhammad guy are offensive? AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #184

From the same fundie places where the whole prohibition against "graven images" comes... MADem Jan 2015 #185

What's the 'figurative' interpretation of those passages? AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #189

Most people who follow the faith don't give a shit about these kinds of things. MADem Jan 2015 #194

Unfortunately... AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #199

I know people who identify as Christians, Muslims and Jews who haven't memorized anything. MADem Jan 2015 #219

But it seems like Middle Eastern culture is much MORE wrapped up in religion than ours. randome Jan 2015 #203

No, people are "culture blind" in their own house. MADem Jan 2015 #210

But all those Western 'trappings' of religion mean little to Americans. randome Jan 2015 #212

But Islamic "trappings" just HAVE to have great import? See where you are culture blind? MADem Jan 2015 #218

You don't see a 'Christian' walking down the street. randome Jan 2015 #224

You see what you assume are Muslims. You aren't always correct, though. MADem Jan 2015 #231

Of course I can't tell that the new Mrs. Clooney is Muslim. She doesn't wear the clothes 24/7. randome Jan 2015 #236

MOST do? You do realize you are digging a HUGE hole, don't you? MADem Jan 2015 #242

Wouldn't be the first time I've dug a hole. randome Jan 2015 #246

Your view of Islam as monolithic is completely off base. MADem Jan 2015 #247

They're no more "Muslim" than the idiots who murder abortion providing doctors are "Christian." Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #216

Video of shooting QuestionableC Jan 2015 #15

The world cannot live in fear of these gangsters Renew Deal Jan 2015 #22

It's a war crime to execute those who surrender. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #37

Horrific murderers. joshcryer Jan 2015 #74

That video is heartbreaking bighart Jan 2015 #75

Horrific--that poor policeman, if he'd played dead he might have gotten through. MADem Jan 2015 #104

Wounded police officer puts his hands up in plea for mercy alcibiades_mystery Jan 2015 #135

Monsters...the world is full of monsters Marrah_G Jan 2015 #148

Thank you for posting that. Hard to watch, but glad I did. RIP to the officer. nt kelly1mm Jan 2015 #163

Social Media is exploding MohRokTah Jan 2015 #35

Good. cwydro Jan 2015 #40

Good - as far as I'm concerned leftynyc Jan 2015 #90

The terrorists have martyred the cartoonists. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #91

Heartbreaking! This is over a cartoon? hrmjustin Jan 2015 #41

IF you feel like you have to kill people who make fun of your religion... MohRokTah Jan 2015 #44

Well, it only takes a few weirdos. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #54

"it's about human egotism wrapped in a religious justification." Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #82

No, the mag was about to publish a parody of France under shariah law Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #55

Thank you. Just infuriating and frightening. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #56

When this magazine was bombed a few years ago it was about a cartoon. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #58

I wonder if they had security. i heard two killed were police. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #60

According to bystanders it seemed like police responding. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #62

Did they get the killers? hrmjustin Jan 2015 #63

Not yet. Manhunt in Paris underway. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #66

Just so sad. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #68

This is how they respond to concerns about their beliefs being cast in an unfavorable light? Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #69

Sisi pointed out in his recent speech that this brand of Islam was Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #121

They weren't about to publish it themselves - it's a book muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #171

Der Spiegel is reporting that that cartoonist was among those killed. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #65

CNN was saying they called out specific people. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #67

It seems to have been a very targeted attack bent on frightening people into submission. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #78

Two famous cartoinists among the victims. mylye2222 Jan 2015 #71

We seem to be in a cycle of blood atonement in many places CanonRay Jan 2015 #70

I think you are onto something here, as this cycle of irredentist violence (where KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #206

re: Blood Atonement CanonRay Jan 2015 #264

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #81

No, it goes hand in hand with extremists from many religions. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #84

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #92

Buddhist extremists are out of control. nt LexVegas Jan 2015 #93

How An Extremist Buddhist Network Is Sowing Hatred Across Asia KittyWampus Jan 2015 #221

Sorry, sell your bigotry to someone else. polly7 Jan 2015 #96

Most of the mass murderers here in the USA have been Christian and white. mucifer Jan 2015 #102

How many of them are killing the name of Christianity? Ace Rothstein Jan 2015 #109

Well, George Bush and Dick Cheney loudly proclaimed their faith as they fomented illegal war, msanthrope Jan 2015 #120

They used that "Crusade" word with great abandon, as I recall....nt MADem Jan 2015 #248

Lots. jeff47 Jan 2015 #152

Quite a few actually. Jamastiene Jan 2015 #227

You could make the case, however, that a lone madman is different... randome Jan 2015 #229

Curious about your thoughts on this: bighart Jan 2015 #232

..... polly7 Jan 2015 #237

Allahu Akbar!!!!!!! screamed the shooters.... maced666 Jan 2015 #87

How long before Greenwald prints his column "explaining" how Blue_Tires Jan 2015 #100

...here come the agendas Union Scribe Jan 2015 #112

Greenwald has an agenda, why am I not allowed to have one? Blue_Tires Jan 2015 #116

OMG how horrible! TorchTheWitch Jan 2015 #108

How awful. More terrorism. AllyCat Jan 2015 #111

The gunmen are still at large Recursion Jan 2015 #119

Paris is bracing for the possibility of more attacks. It may not be over. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #122

The offices of El Pais in Spain were evacuated due to a suspicious package Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #128

Sad Atman Jan 2015 #132

Those are European constructs. randome Jan 2015 #138

Well, you said it. TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #240

We can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle, however. randome Jan 2015 #241

It's fucked up gwheezie Jan 2015 #137

Curious that this wasn't a suicide mission. GreatCaesarsGhost Jan 2015 #149

The Perps escaped! how did they manage that much shooting and then escape! Sunlei Jan 2015 #151

Cause enough horror and carnage and no one thinks, "I need to go after these guys." randome Jan 2015 #153

they were heavily armed and just killed the policemen who came in drray23 Jan 2015 #180

4 Cartoonists Killed In Attack On Charlie Hebdo Newspaper Beacool Jan 2015 #156

Horrific and despicable YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #170

The German far right parties are going to benefit hugely from this LittleBlue Jan 2015 #183

You mean the German far right parties whose members have benefitted hugely from Muslims KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #220

Just so. DU seriously has a blind spot about European politics. KittyWampus Jan 2015 #223

Many have a foolish idea that Europe is "more liberal" and more accepting. MADem Jan 2015 #233

But it's not just the chocolate and the caramel TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #243

Yeah, the European Union (and even those who are EU-lite) kind of falls apart when times are tough. MADem Jan 2015 #244

The EU, IMO, Is A Corporatist's Wet Dream TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #245

Kerrys reaction to the attack. mylye2222 Jan 2015 #238