General Discussion

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)

214. I think what Twain's narrator was getting at in that passage I cited is that people get

Wed Jan 7, 2015, 03:09 PM

Jan 2015

all upset about the 'hot violence' (like this attack in Paris) but don't get too disturbed over the longer and equally brutal 'cold violence' (like Europe's despicable record in the Middle East).

I considered posting the relevant excerpt from Sir Winston Churchill's War Office Memo of 1919 where he endorses the use of poison gas (mustard gas as well as tear gas) on the 'uncivilized tribes' in Iraq and the Arab Peninsula. But not sure now what the point would be. If you're interested, though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_British_use_of_chemical_weapons_in_Mesopotamia_in_1920

I can't say I hate every religion equally. Buddhism, for example, although not without its own bellicose episodes in the very distant past, has a recent tradition of embracing non-violence without reservation (at least in the sects with which I'm familiar). I probably hate 'religiosity' as much as anything, an attitude of which I'm sure Twain would approve.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

266 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

BREAKING. AT LEAST 10 DEATH IN PARIS SHOOTING. [View all] mylye2222 Jan 2015 OP

For those not in the know JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #1

Yes, and apparently the same motivation this time, with 12 now reported dead. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #43

In the same building? Orsino Jan 2015 #158

The magazine is like a sophisticated CRACKED or MAD Magazine, with a socio-political bent. MADem Jan 2015 #2

Murdering people in cold blood cwydro Jan 2015 #19

You need to stop looking for a "gotcha" moment and actually READ what people write. MADem Jan 2015 #26

You wrote - cwydro Jan 2015 #29

Try reading the sentence BEFORE that one, why don't you? There's no "ambiguity' if you READ. MADem Jan 2015 #45

You're obviously an angry person. cwydro Jan 2015 #57

Ha, ha--yet another insult/accusation/attack! Is that the only way you can converse? MADem Jan 2015 #72

Ok dear MAD cwydro Jan 2015 #113

No, I think YOU need to do the looking back--you didn't "simply ask a question" -- you accused and MADem Jan 2015 #133

So passive aggressive is your thing? Agschmid Jan 2015 #86

The sentence before doesn't make the phrase "Muslim push-back" any clearer, pnwmom Jan 2015 #157

Gee, you think asking rather than accusing would be a better way to go, rather than suggesting that MADem Jan 2015 #175

Thank you. cwydro Jan 2015 #178

Uh, yes there was, I read it the same way Warpy Jan 2015 #230

Sorry you had such difficulty. It isn't complicated. MADem Jan 2015 #234

If you found it ambiguous you could have requested clarification tkmorris Jan 2015 #107

No, I did not find it ambiguous cwydro Jan 2015 #115

I misunderstood MADem in the same way, and I didn't find it ambiguous. pnwmom Jan 2015 #159

The first sentence made it clear nt treestar Jan 2015 #130

Not to me. To me, the "Muslim push-back" referred to the act of terrorism pnwmom Jan 2015 #155

That makes no sense if read in the context of the preceding sentence. nt MADem Jan 2015 #188

The preceding sentence must be read in the context of the OP it responded to. pnwmom Jan 2015 #191

The poster wasted no time accusing me of thinking murder was "OK." MADem Jan 2015 #202

Unfortunately, there are people on this board who could have made your comment pnwmom Jan 2015 #204

I will reiterate that one only pushes BACK when one is first PUSHED. MADem Jan 2015 #207

Not quite Hutzpa Jan 2015 #193

That's only if you think the "Muslim push-back" was a reference to the sentence immediately pnwmom Jan 2015 #198

Well, of course it was--it was all in the same paragraph. MADem Jan 2015 #205

+1 It is getting egregious. treestar Jan 2015 #129

Oh my. cwydro Jan 2015 #179

+1 MADem Hekate Jan 2015 #239

The cartoons were push-back. This is murder. nt Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #27

yes cwydro Jan 2015 #38

Good grief, READ. MADem Jan 2015 #47

As an example of what you're saying madokie Jan 2015 #125

Yes, exactly--at a risk of inciting a kerfluffle, it's that "privilege" thing at work. MADem Jan 2015 #134

Here is a third person misunderstanding your meaning. Maybe you should change your post pnwmom Jan 2015 #160

Well, it's a spit decision. It's perfectly clear at this stage, but thanks for your input. MADem Jan 2015 #172

In general, I agree that asking is better. But in this case, the poster pnwmom Jan 2015 #195

No--in this case, the poster accused me of endorsing slaughter. I didn't take it well. MADem Jan 2015 #197

I agree that often the word "so" followed by a question ends in an insulting conclusion -- pnwmom Jan 2015 #200

I think that horse has long left the barn. MADem Jan 2015 #213

The French have been under attack from Muslims for years. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #42

Oh, those poor French. You know, maybe if France hadn't invaded and occupied parts of North Africa KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #52

So of course assassinating leftynyc Jan 2015 #61

The person to whom I responded asserted that the French were "under attack KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #99

Do you really mean to leftynyc Jan 2015 #101

Let me be clear: pissing and moaning that the French are 'under attack by Muslims' represents KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #106

So they can piss and moan about leftynyc Jan 2015 #118

Not exactly. But, if you want to get a sense of the monumental crimes KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #126

I know all about the mess in Algeria leftynyc Jan 2015 #127

And the post that spawned your subthread said that France was under attack by Muslims KittyWampus Jan 2015 #146

So you're ok with this attack because the French are, in your words, MUCKING AROUND IN SYRIA? GGJohn Jan 2015 #124

No one is suggesting that this attack is "OK." Why in hell do all conversations on DU devolve to MADem Jan 2015 #190

Good post. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #201

No one ever remembers what the West is doing in malaise Jan 2015 #142

"An eye for an eye" means nothing to these murderers. There is no sense of balance in their minds. randome Jan 2015 #144

That's precisely what they think of all of us in the West malaise Jan 2015 #150

Mark Twain's comments about the so-called 'Reign of Terror' KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #166

Mark Twain is my guru malaise Jan 2015 #209

I think what Twain's narrator was getting at in that passage I cited is that people get KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #214

And of course he was correct malaise Jan 2015 #222

Not sure how you got to that response after reading my post. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #73

Well, you used the phrase "under attack by Muslims." Funny, but the KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #97

Pretty sure no French cartoonists invaded Muslim lands. Union Scribe Jan 2015 #94

For your ongoing amusement, you might find the following article of interest: KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #103

Do you think this could be a false flag operation? philosslayer Jan 2015 #139

It's been quite some time since I paid close attention to internal French affairs. I remember the KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #141

And Charlie Hebdo is a left wing satirical magazine muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #161

Sigh. I brought up Algeria and Syria not to excuse this attack nor to KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #164

Bollocks - of course #52 was to try to excuse/provide a reason for the attack muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #168

Bollocks back at ya. I take it then you agree with post #42 that spawned this KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #169

I don't particularly agree with that analysis, but it's true that there have been muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #173

Sigh. Can we at least agree that, had the French not stuck their noses into the Middle East after KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #177

No, I don't think that's a reasonable way to put it muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #186

Please allow me to revise my request: Can we simply agree that, had France not KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #192

No, I can't agree with that muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #228

Point of information: AOL is now reporting that the 3 arrested were all KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #249

I doubt it in this case LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #255

All 3 were of Algerian descent, according to AOL. One is entitled to ask just how and why it KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #257

I have changed and updated that in line with current info; but even so, all of them were born long LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #260

Yes, I saw a report in passing (can't remember where now) that one of the 3 said he KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #261

This has nothing to do with Algeria; it is some insane religious nutcases on a murderous rampage LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #251

They may be "insane religious nutcases on a murderous rampage," but AOL is reporting KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #253

Oh good Gawd!!!!! Are you serious?!? GGJohn Jan 2015 #147

Incredibly unlikely, I think LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #259

They didn't have to allow immigration to France itself treestar Jan 2015 #131

For over 300 years, the N. African Moslem caliphates murdered and enslaved thousands aint_no_life_nowhere Jan 2015 #250

I'll let Sir Winston Churchill respond to your "poor murdering Arabs" line: KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #252

I don't think you're the real King Charlemagne at all. mathematic Jan 2015 #254

And there are many, MANY Muslims who will suffer in France because of those assholes, who have not MADem Jan 2015 #53

Agree with everything you typed. nt. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #76

This is the rhetoric that Far-Right Politicians in pretty much every European country use KittyWampus Jan 2015 #143

This is completely oversimplified... LeftishBrit Jan 2015 #258

This isn't "Muslim push-back." It's fundamentalist terrorism.n/t pnwmom Jan 2015 #154

I certainly hope there is more push-back from the remaining Charlie Hebdo staff GoneOffShore Jan 2015 #256

Terrorism is terrorism and guess who are the ones doing it. This time over a cartoon. Those demosincebirth Jan 2015 #262

The ones doing it are lunatics--but "Islam" doesn't, in and of itself, breed them. MADem Jan 2015 #265

your comparisons are as lopsided as a square tire demosincebirth Jan 2015 #266

It's time to put boots on the ground. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #3

I have some boots I can send pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #8

Since France was the original (European) imperial power to occupy Vietnam, I can think of KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #49

When I worked at the Wall I met a visitor who had been a French paratrooper in VN pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #64

Do you remember if he was French Foreign Legion or regular French Army? As imperial KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #217

Regular Army, I think pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #226

This worked so well in Iraq and Afghanistan. ellenrr Jan 2015 #11

+1. Nt newfie11 Jan 2015 #13

Do you have a better solution? whathehell Jan 2015 #80

We need more U.N.C.L.E.; less T.H.R.U.S.H. HereSince1628 Jan 2015 #95

Uh huh. whathehell Jan 2015 #105

U.N.C.L.E.: the ficticious United Nations Command for Law and Enforcement HereSince1628 Jan 2015 #117

Clear evidence the West must at least pass laws banning hoodies? HereSince1628 Jan 2015 #14

No, just cross your fingers and hope for the best. randome Jan 2015 #17

Pull my finger pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #25

LOL.. whathehell Jan 2015 #79

12 people are dead in Paris. Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #18

It's also in Texas. nt justiceischeap Jan 2015 #32

Two in Canada, Paris Ontario and Yukon...in the US.... Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #88

Satire, or your real opinion? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #162

Well... CJCRANE Jan 2015 #167

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #4

A quibble: 'local hour' doesn't really mean anything except to you. Wherever you are. randome Jan 2015 #5

I think the OP cwydro Jan 2015 #20

D'oh! randome Jan 2015 #89

BREAKING. 12 death mylye2222 Jan 2015 #6

Every French magazine and newspaper should run satirical cartoons about Mohammed as a response dissentient Jan 2015 #7

Don't you think it's strange France supports extremist rebels in Syria CJCRANE Jan 2015 #9

How nice of the murderous scum who leftynyc Jan 2015 #16

But we support that "scum" CJCRANE Jan 2015 #23

Past mistakes are no reason for future mistakes. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #28

That's not the past. This is right now in an ongoing war we support. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #31

That does not give them license to murder people in the streets. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #33

I agree but if we finance extremism it is going to increase. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #39

But the magazine is targeted for failing to observe Islamic rules about what may be said! Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #46

Often it's scum vs scum in these decisions. Renew Deal Jan 2015 #34

Don't pretend that's what happened here leftynyc Jan 2015 #50

These groups have a lot more money and support now CJCRANE Jan 2015 #59

Taunting them should be the least they should do, these despicable terrorists need to be hunted dissentient Jan 2015 #21

We support that scum in other countries CJCRANE Jan 2015 #24

I'm getting really tired of these insane Islamic terrorists attacking Australia, France and the dissentient Jan 2015 #30

Saddam, Gadaffi and Assad kept a lid on the crazies. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #36

I agree that our Western foreign policy has been a complete disaster dissentient Jan 2015 #48

Exactly. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #85

Wow. joshcryer Jan 2015 #98

You make a lot of cogent arguments, America has increased the world supply of terrorists, on Fred Sanders Jan 2015 #110

+1000. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #83

Much as the super secret plan Cracked Magazine was involved in during 2010 LanternWaste Jan 2015 #114

Western muslims who support the Syrian rebels also support sharia law in the west. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #136

these terrorists don't give a shit about fucked up things we have done like torture JI7 Jan 2015 #235

That's not my point at all. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #263

One should not. possiblylogical Jan 2015 #123

Remember when that crazy preacher in Florida wanted to burn the Koran? philosslayer Jan 2015 #140

this is terrible. I am so sad for these people that lost their lives, ellenrr Jan 2015 #10

There were three recent "Allahu Akbar" incidents in France in which drivers attacked pedestrians Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #51

The right wing crackdown nilesobek Jan 2015 #12

These aren't "Muslims." These are extremist nuts. They're no more "Muslim" than the idiots who MADem Jan 2015 #77

"No True Scotsman" fallacy. Quantess Jan 2015 #145

However, nilesobek talked about 'enforcing their own laws', which implies a Muslim community muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #165

Yes, muslim extremists. Quantess Jan 2015 #174

They are Muslims; they are also men muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #176

That much is true. Quantess Jan 2015 #182

Most Imams would call them infidels. MADem Jan 2015 #196

Feel free to look up "no true scotsman". Quantess Jan 2015 #208

I ASKED. I think you maybe need to look up "strawman" because I didn't build one at all. MADem Jan 2015 #211

...which all sounds like a classic "no true scotsman" fallacy. Quantess Jan 2015 #215

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Have a good day at work. nt MADem Jan 2015 #225

What absolute nonsense! mr blur Jan 2015 #181

What are you saying? Please be VERY specific. Are you actually trying to suggest that the conduct MADem Jan 2015 #187

Where did they get the idea that images of this muhammad guy are offensive? AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #184

From the same fundie places where the whole prohibition against "graven images" comes... MADem Jan 2015 #185

What's the 'figurative' interpretation of those passages? AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #189

Most people who follow the faith don't give a shit about these kinds of things. MADem Jan 2015 #194

Unfortunately... AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #199

I know people who identify as Christians, Muslims and Jews who haven't memorized anything. MADem Jan 2015 #219

But it seems like Middle Eastern culture is much MORE wrapped up in religion than ours. randome Jan 2015 #203

No, people are "culture blind" in their own house. MADem Jan 2015 #210

But all those Western 'trappings' of religion mean little to Americans. randome Jan 2015 #212

But Islamic "trappings" just HAVE to have great import? See where you are culture blind? MADem Jan 2015 #218

You don't see a 'Christian' walking down the street. randome Jan 2015 #224

You see what you assume are Muslims. You aren't always correct, though. MADem Jan 2015 #231

Of course I can't tell that the new Mrs. Clooney is Muslim. She doesn't wear the clothes 24/7. randome Jan 2015 #236

MOST do? You do realize you are digging a HUGE hole, don't you? MADem Jan 2015 #242

Wouldn't be the first time I've dug a hole. randome Jan 2015 #246

Your view of Islam as monolithic is completely off base. MADem Jan 2015 #247

They're no more "Muslim" than the idiots who murder abortion providing doctors are "Christian." Warren Stupidity Jan 2015 #216

Video of shooting QuestionableC Jan 2015 #15

The world cannot live in fear of these gangsters Renew Deal Jan 2015 #22

It's a war crime to execute those who surrender. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #37

Horrific murderers. joshcryer Jan 2015 #74

That video is heartbreaking bighart Jan 2015 #75

Horrific--that poor policeman, if he'd played dead he might have gotten through. MADem Jan 2015 #104

Wounded police officer puts his hands up in plea for mercy alcibiades_mystery Jan 2015 #135

Monsters...the world is full of monsters Marrah_G Jan 2015 #148

Thank you for posting that. Hard to watch, but glad I did. RIP to the officer. nt kelly1mm Jan 2015 #163

Social Media is exploding MohRokTah Jan 2015 #35

Good. cwydro Jan 2015 #40

Good - as far as I'm concerned leftynyc Jan 2015 #90

The terrorists have martyred the cartoonists. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #91

Heartbreaking! This is over a cartoon? hrmjustin Jan 2015 #41

IF you feel like you have to kill people who make fun of your religion... MohRokTah Jan 2015 #44

Well, it only takes a few weirdos. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #54

"it's about human egotism wrapped in a religious justification." Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #82

No, the mag was about to publish a parody of France under shariah law Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #55

Thank you. Just infuriating and frightening. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #56

When this magazine was bombed a few years ago it was about a cartoon. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #58

I wonder if they had security. i heard two killed were police. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #60

According to bystanders it seemed like police responding. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #62

Did they get the killers? hrmjustin Jan 2015 #63

Not yet. Manhunt in Paris underway. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #66

Just so sad. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #68

This is how they respond to concerns about their beliefs being cast in an unfavorable light? Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2015 #69

Sisi pointed out in his recent speech that this brand of Islam was Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #121

They weren't about to publish it themselves - it's a book muriel_volestrangler Jan 2015 #171

Der Spiegel is reporting that that cartoonist was among those killed. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #65

CNN was saying they called out specific people. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #67

It seems to have been a very targeted attack bent on frightening people into submission. Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #78

Two famous cartoinists among the victims. mylye2222 Jan 2015 #71

We seem to be in a cycle of blood atonement in many places CanonRay Jan 2015 #70

I think you are onto something here, as this cycle of irredentist violence (where KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #206

re: Blood Atonement CanonRay Jan 2015 #264

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #81

No, it goes hand in hand with extremists from many religions. nt. polly7 Jan 2015 #84

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #92

Buddhist extremists are out of control. nt LexVegas Jan 2015 #93

How An Extremist Buddhist Network Is Sowing Hatred Across Asia KittyWampus Jan 2015 #221

Sorry, sell your bigotry to someone else. polly7 Jan 2015 #96

Most of the mass murderers here in the USA have been Christian and white. mucifer Jan 2015 #102

How many of them are killing the name of Christianity? Ace Rothstein Jan 2015 #109

Well, George Bush and Dick Cheney loudly proclaimed their faith as they fomented illegal war, msanthrope Jan 2015 #120

They used that "Crusade" word with great abandon, as I recall....nt MADem Jan 2015 #248

Lots. jeff47 Jan 2015 #152

Quite a few actually. Jamastiene Jan 2015 #227

You could make the case, however, that a lone madman is different... randome Jan 2015 #229

Curious about your thoughts on this: bighart Jan 2015 #232

..... polly7 Jan 2015 #237

Allahu Akbar!!!!!!! screamed the shooters.... maced666 Jan 2015 #87

How long before Greenwald prints his column "explaining" how Blue_Tires Jan 2015 #100

...here come the agendas Union Scribe Jan 2015 #112

Greenwald has an agenda, why am I not allowed to have one? Blue_Tires Jan 2015 #116

OMG how horrible! TorchTheWitch Jan 2015 #108

How awful. More terrorism. AllyCat Jan 2015 #111

The gunmen are still at large Recursion Jan 2015 #119

Paris is bracing for the possibility of more attacks. It may not be over. nt msanthrope Jan 2015 #122

The offices of El Pais in Spain were evacuated due to a suspicious package Yo_Mama Jan 2015 #128

Sad Atman Jan 2015 #132

Those are European constructs. randome Jan 2015 #138

Well, you said it. TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #240

We can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle, however. randome Jan 2015 #241

It's fucked up gwheezie Jan 2015 #137

Curious that this wasn't a suicide mission. GreatCaesarsGhost Jan 2015 #149

The Perps escaped! how did they manage that much shooting and then escape! Sunlei Jan 2015 #151

Cause enough horror and carnage and no one thinks, "I need to go after these guys." randome Jan 2015 #153

they were heavily armed and just killed the policemen who came in drray23 Jan 2015 #180

4 Cartoonists Killed In Attack On Charlie Hebdo Newspaper Beacool Jan 2015 #156

Horrific and despicable YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #170

The German far right parties are going to benefit hugely from this LittleBlue Jan 2015 #183

You mean the German far right parties whose members have benefitted hugely from Muslims KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #220

Just so. DU seriously has a blind spot about European politics. KittyWampus Jan 2015 #223

Many have a foolish idea that Europe is "more liberal" and more accepting. MADem Jan 2015 #233

But it's not just the chocolate and the caramel TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #243

Yeah, the European Union (and even those who are EU-lite) kind of falls apart when times are tough. MADem Jan 2015 #244

The EU, IMO, Is A Corporatist's Wet Dream TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #245

Kerrys reaction to the attack. mylye2222 Jan 2015 #238