General Discussion

alarimer

(17,146 posts)

62. I get what you are saying and I agree up to a point.

Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:50 PM

Jan 2015

But even if men did the right thing (which is presumably to take care of the results of their sexual activities, if that's how you choose to define it), women would still have abortions. Women have abortions for lots of reasons, not just because they can't afford to keep and care for a child. Some times, they simply do not want a child. Period. They shouldn't be forced to have one, just because some guy decided to "live up to his responsibilities" (or was forced to by law, which I'm not sure is really in the best interests of anyone).

But you are right in that no mention is ever made of the responsibilities of the other party. I have an issue with this because once you go down that road, and talk about rights and responsibilities of men, it brings up the thorny question of whether a guy should be able to force a woman to have a child, just because he is willing to take care of it, even without her participation.

I believe legally, if we want women to have the right to not be a parent if they so choose, we also have to allow men to opt out, if they so choose.

The other side of the question is thornier still, where men are forced to pay child support for children they do not want. I know courts have argued that it's in the best interest of the child, but I have my doubts that having a disinterested parent does the kid any good at all.

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Highlight:

Abortion is Legal Because So Many Men Are Lying, Thoughtless, Irresponsible Dicks. [View all] riqster Jan 2015 OP

Hear, hear! Excellent assessment. nt Mnemosyne Jan 2015 #1

Thanks. riqster Jan 2015 #6

I find this a weird approach and one that doesn't really match up with reality. Brickbat Jan 2015 #2

Men should have no legal rights in that decision. riqster Jan 2015 #13

I agree with your subject line. So if it's not about men, why does OP make it about men? nt stevenleser Jan 2015 #27

Point. riqster Jan 2015 #29

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THAT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ onecaliberal Jan 2015 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author Stryst Jan 2015 #48

Another very important fact that this article misses is the health aspect. lark Jan 2015 #39

I was told after my second child that neither I nor my child would survive another pregnancy. JDPriestly Jan 2015 #61

After my son was born, his mother and I got similar warnings. riqster Jan 2015 #70

Exactly lark Jan 2015 #124

Anti-choicers refuse to accept abortion as health issue Panich52 Jan 2015 #92

Very true. riqster Jan 2015 #101

I think this article misses the mark. Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #3

The point is that the woman and only the woman has the right to choose. riqster Jan 2015 #9

The message this article gives is that if men would only behave, we wouldn't have to regulate their Brickbat Jan 2015 #10

In real life Tsiyu Jan 2015 #66

I'm with you on that, but that's not what the article concludes. Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #15

Agreed, but that is not what the article said. joeglow3 Jan 2015 #19

No legal standing in the woman's decision, no responsibility for their sperm or their child. Righto. appalachiablue Jan 2015 #76

Hmmmmm... ncjustice80 Jan 2015 #123

It's such a difficult but important part of our lives, things seem to change then revert like now. appalachiablue Jan 2015 #128

This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Jan 2015 #30

Thanks for posting this :) wavesofeuphoria Jan 2015 #4

Sometimes even happily married heterosexual women get pregnant when they don't want to be. Brickbat Jan 2015 #5

True. And the choice should be the woman's, and ONLY hers. riqster Jan 2015 #8

Right, so why bring deadbeat men into it? Brickbat Jan 2015 #12

Because they figured in the original case and were central to it. riqster Jan 2015 #14

You can't have it both ways. It's not about men, it's about a woman's choice regardless. nt stevenleser Jan 2015 #28

There is really no way to have it both ways kcr Jan 2015 #40

That's just as good an argument for men having say over what pregnant women should do. Brickbat Jan 2015 #32

Because ALOT of women are forced to have children when the men run off. onecaliberal Jan 2015 #44

That was the scenario of the Roe plaintiff. riqster Jan 2015 #71

bringing dust buster for the exploding heads. niyad Jan 2015 #7

Don't Even Know RobinA Jan 2015 #11

I'm starting to think that the OP liked the headline, Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #17

IIRC progressoid Jan 2015 #25

I concur. This article is wrong, even if it's heart may be in the right place. On the literal level, KingCharlemagne Jan 2015 #18

I think you may be partly correct but some people, both Men and Women simply don't want,,, BlueJazz Jan 2015 #16

I hear you. The Roe case involved a man who behaved as described in the OP. riqster Jan 2015 #21

Okay, but then whathehell Jan 2015 #24

"how 'bout they get vasectomies.?" BlueJazz Jan 2015 #35

Yup. whathehell Jan 2015 #53

I know many men who feel the same. Especially married ones, mostly middle aged with wives and appalachiablue Jan 2015 #67

Personally, I equate cheating on your spouse as one of the most unforgivable things ... BlueJazz Jan 2015 #78

Your views about fidelity are honorable and should be more common. The principled, old school boss appalachiablue Jan 2015 #99

Lie to women in order to get laid? Omaha Steve Jan 2015 #20

Yeah, quite the shocker, innit? riqster Jan 2015 #22

This article makes some good points.... sendero Jan 2015 #23

Bollocks. riqster Jan 2015 #33

Not having sex with somebody is still the only 100% foolproof method of contraception mythology Jan 2015 #51

True. Unfortunately abstinence has been proved not to work for the majority. PatrickforO Jan 2015 #55

And what advice do you give men? wavesofeuphoria Jan 2015 #52

Absolutely.... sendero Jan 2015 #81

I agree 100% Go Vols Jan 2015 #109

And don't get raped by him, for Heaven's sake! Easy. appalachiablue Jan 2015 #72

Ahhhh, her body can shut that whole thing down anyways. riqster Jan 2015 #84

Sure, like how women can put aspirin between their legs. Or whip up some exotic 'herbal' stuff appalachiablue Jan 2015 #97

And what about couples who are not ready F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #74

That is not remotely the same thing... sendero Jan 2015 #85

Imagine that. Too many people who disagree with your opinion now how could that be? kcr Jan 2015 #87

No... sendero Jan 2015 #88

Oh, we think it's evil men who are the problem? kcr Jan 2015 #91

"Abortion is Legal Because So Many Men Are Lying, Thoughtless, Irresponsible Dicks"... sendero Jan 2015 #94

Rest away, but I repeat. It doesn't reflect reality. kcr Jan 2015 #95

This sums it up pretty damned well: CrispyQ Jan 2015 #26

Thanks. I could have written the OP better. riqster Jan 2015 #31

+10000 sinkingfeeling Jan 2015 #56

+1000 smirkymonkey Jan 2015 #115

Abortion is legal because women are people. Iggo Jan 2015 #34

+1,000,000 La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2015 #36

Here and I thought it was about a right to privacy in the Constitution. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #37

Good point! JDPriestly Jan 2015 #63

I heard once that Thurgood Marshall had a bullet fired into his home afterwards.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #112

Never let reality get in the way of a good rant Major Nikon Jan 2015 #118

I have long said that if women would simply SheilaT Jan 2015 #38

Interesting point you make here. CTyankee Jan 2015 #41

I like it. riqster Jan 2015 #42

That subject line is also why a male birth control pill isn't a great idea Orrex Jan 2015 #45

Right up there with checks being in the mail. riqster Jan 2015 #46

Women pay child support, too. Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2015 #47

A lot of people think courts are biased against men kcr Jan 2015 #49

I hope I live to see real identification and research of narcissist and sociopath personalities appalachiablue Jan 2015 #96

This absolutley true. SpankMe Jan 2015 #50

Men and women create a pregnancy together. riqster Jan 2015 #57

This is a really great post! PatrickforO Jan 2015 #54

Good you keep doing that. prove that pro life idiots are not pro life PatrynXX Jan 2015 #58

K&R. But the OP does not begin to deal with the huge problem of unwanted or unhealthy JDPriestly Jan 2015 #59

Granted the OP had a narrow focus. riqster Jan 2015 #69

How men behave is irrelevant! yallerdawg Jan 2015 #60

I get what you are saying and I agree up to a point. alarimer Jan 2015 #62

Thank you Marcia Blackburn for sponsoring your anti-abortion bill Tsiyu Jan 2015 #64

Good point about poverty. riqster Jan 2015 #68

Yes indeed. Tsiyu Jan 2015 #73

As much as I support reproductive choice, I truly hate to see such broad-brush tblue37 Jan 2015 #65

Speaking as a male, I can tell when a "so many men do xyz" statement doesn't apply to me. riqster Jan 2015 #75

Really? Do you think it doesn't happen a lot? That it's actually rare? kcr Jan 2015 #83

Maybe you need to change the way your State handles court order child support. dilby Jan 2015 #77

It's a federal right and child support is only part of the obligation. riqster Jan 2015 #80

There is no law that says a mother has to keep a child after giving birth. dilby Jan 2015 #86

Classic MRA false equivalence crap. riqster Jan 2015 #89

But what do you mean? Like, isn't there craigslist or something? kcr Jan 2015 #93

What is your point? dilby Jan 2015 #98

Ah yes, it's all on the woman, eh? MRA crap. riqster Jan 2015 #100

Take your issue up with nature and evolution. dilby Jan 2015 #102

Had you read the OP, you'd know that I acknowledged Nature. riqster Jan 2015 #104

Yes, but she still has to do something kcr Jan 2015 #90

Well said. riqster Jan 2015 #106

You mean the non-custodial parents wages and that suport is given to the custodial parent, correct? kelly1mm Jan 2015 #129

And Ban Viagra Also misterhighwasted Jan 2015 #79

Damn, I thought it was because medical decisions are a private matter between patients and doctors TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #82

Until power is equally shared... madamesilverspurs Jan 2015 #103

Totally stealing! riqster Jan 2015 #105

"Lying, thoughtless, irresponsible"? Augustus Jan 2015 #107

That is completely wrong. riqster Jan 2015 #108

Women don't need men to "save" them Augustus Jan 2015 #110

Projecting nonsense again. riqster Jan 2015 #111

You're implying it Augustus Jan 2015 #116

What I said is what I said. And I said nothing else. riqster Jan 2015 #117

This title is BS flamtebait. Threedifferentones Jan 2015 #113

. randome Jan 2015 #114

Sometimes women have abortions simply because they don't want to have a baby. Crunchy Frog Jan 2015 #119

I would never endorse an article which generalizes about men like this jimlup Jan 2015 #120

Nowhere does it say all men. riqster Jan 2015 #122

Nevertheless I find both the title and discussion offensive because of generailizations jimlup Jan 2015 #125

Okay, should we thank men for being "lying, thoughtless, irresponsible dicks"? n/t hughee99 Jan 2015 #121

How about a Joni Ernst solution to the male problem? IronLionZion Jan 2015 #126

Unwitting nothing. I am fully aware of what I wrote. riqster Jan 2015 #127