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FarCenter

(19,429 posts)

26. It's primarily nitrogen that is the limiting factor

Thu Apr 26, 2012, 01:20 PM

Apr 2012

In the Nature review article (link above) it says:

Cereals and vegetables need lots of nitrogen to grow, suggesting that the yield differences are in large part attributable to nitrogen deficiencies in organic systems, says Seufert.

This limitation can be removed by either rotating with nitrogen fixing crops, which requires more land, or by using nitrogen fertilizer.

The Haber process for fixing nitrogen by using natural gas was critical in developing modern agriculture.

The Haber process is important today because the fertilizer generated from ammonia is responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population.[5] It is estimated that half of the protein within human beings is made of nitrogen that was originally fixed by this process, the remainder was produced by nitrogen fixing bacteria and archaea.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process

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Organic farms yield less produce, require more land: study [View all] FarCenter Apr 2012 OP

and I wonder who funded this study niyad Apr 2012 #1

The authors declare no competing financial interests FarCenter Apr 2012 #6

Who funded it? obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #9

It looks like it was funded by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation FarCenter Apr 2012 #14

Everyone knows the University of Minnesota Institute on the Environment is a subsidiary of Monsanto 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #16

And the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation looks to be a front for the Koch brothers... FarCenter Apr 2012 #17

How so? I think you should provide some evidence for such a claim. yellowcanine Apr 2012 #40

I was being sarcastic -- take a look at the link; they support a wide range of environmental causes. FarCenter Apr 2012 #45

are you making fun of liberals? CreekDog Apr 2012 #71

Anyone who has driven through southern Minnesota has seen all the Monsanto signs and I would jwirr Apr 2012 #63

Hold on a sec, 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #68

Of course not and that is not what I said. But having a huge business in the back yard is reason jwirr Apr 2012 #72

Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation KansDem Apr 2012 #61

yes, and steroids and unhealthy supplements can make you stronger CreekDog Apr 2012 #69

Monsanto or one of their ilk obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #7

Why is it "probably" monsanto? 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #12

Yes because the pro-organic sources laundry_queen Apr 2012 #13

And only billions of dollars can taint a research project 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #15

Wow you twisted that post so much laundry_queen Apr 2012 #20

You are completely misrepresenting how research works 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #21

According to this study laundry_queen Apr 2012 #31

There's a huge difference between: 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #33

I agree to a point laundry_queen Apr 2012 #35

I believe the "front posts" were supposed to be jokes in response to the "It was Monsanto" claims. yellowcanine Apr 2012 #41

You have to take a long term outlook - hedgehog Apr 2012 #2

The article did say that the difference declines over time. I wish they had been more specific libinnyandia Apr 2012 #3

The article ended with that as a throw-away line when in fact it is a key finding Gormy Cuss Apr 2012 #23

It's primarily nitrogen that is the limiting factor FarCenter Apr 2012 #26

Nitrogen-fixing crops can be rotated in off seasons or shoulder seasons (depending on climate) Gormy Cuss Apr 2012 #30

but applied nitrogen in runoff decreases the yield from our waterways by polluting them CreekDog Apr 2012 #73

That is what I was thinking - also the continued fertilization of the soil is supposed to cut the jwirr Apr 2012 #64

If even if the conclusions are bullet proof, so what. musiclawyer Apr 2012 #4

Good post obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #10

true-- the lower pollution should offset the increased land, even in a worse case scenario NoMoreWarNow Apr 2012 #43

Shouldn't be a problem gratuitous Apr 2012 #5

Also a good post obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #11

+1000 Blue_Tires Apr 2012 #42

People can quit eating so much red meat obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #8

This Vehl Apr 2012 #18

3 times? flvegan Apr 2012 #19

How much does price play a role in this? bigwillq Apr 2012 #24

I think that is because laundry_queen Apr 2012 #34

Even the "Dollar Menu" dinner... meaculpa2011 Apr 2012 #53

True but bigwillq Apr 2012 #57

I don't mean to be... meaculpa2011 Apr 2012 #58

I eat salads all the time at McDonalds. bigwillq Apr 2012 #60

Except that most land is better suited for permanent pasture than annual crops like veggies. yellowcanine Apr 2012 #36

Or any meat. Mendocino Apr 2012 #52

What do we want? What can we afford? Space or sustainability. The Midway Rebel Apr 2012 #22

But what about the health risk of organic vs. non-organic LynneSin Apr 2012 #25

What is the relative health risk? The spinach scare a few years back was organic spinach. yellowcanine Apr 2012 #37

Umhumm... Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #27

Where is that located? I'd like to visit it. MineralMan Apr 2012 #39

Still in the concept stage but it seems it is possible. Lost-in-FL Apr 2012 #49

Oh. Thanks. MineralMan Apr 2012 #56

Will Organic Food Fail to Feed the World? FarCenter Apr 2012 #28

Frankly, I think local is more important than organic cali Apr 2012 #29

I think I agree with you. If we were using our resources on a local level (even in developing jwirr Apr 2012 #67

Maybe so, but maybe if we respected our food and didn't waste so much it wouldn't matter. I'll take Pisces Apr 2012 #32

Anybody that didn't know that already. sendero Apr 2012 #38

yeah, it's kind of obvious, isn't it NoMoreWarNow Apr 2012 #44

Exactly.. sendero Apr 2012 #46

Consider me unsurprised quaker bill Apr 2012 #47

But Roundup lets one use less land, and provides that just right smoky flavor. n/t jtuck004 Apr 2012 #48

This is uncontroversial, but this is geoagriculture. Use hydroponics, and the like... joshcryer Apr 2012 #50

"benefits" of industrial agriculture: humus Apr 2012 #51

Its obvious that organic farming have lower yields Lars77 Apr 2012 #54

Its obvious that a healthy meal will take longer to make humus Apr 2012 #65

So why is this news? Sounds like the GM food lobby wrote it. Lars77 Apr 2012 #76

I'd love to see a study that includes the use of Permaculture techniques. PuraVidaDreamin Apr 2012 #55

Even organic farms use herbicides mainer Apr 2012 #59

I think you are a bit confused. nobodyspecial Apr 2012 #62

I wish I could dig up that article... mainer Apr 2012 #66

I wish you could as well nobodyspecial Apr 2012 #75

NO synthetic herbicides can be used here in VT for organic farming. Zero. in fact, the growing piratefish08 Apr 2012 #70

Organic farms DO yield less and require more land - the alternative is deadly food. piratefish08 Apr 2012 #74