General Discussion

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)

276. ROFL. You sent me a video in which a doctor says the anti-vaxxers are wrong, and that people my age

Tue Feb 3, 2015, 11:52 PM

Feb 2015

are likely immune, and that there was a time when vaccines weren't as reliable as they are now. Then you start reaching for a bunch of unsubstantiated air that goes nowhere. Congratulations. Also, this seems like an odd place for you to be advocating that people should vote Republican if they don't agree with you, but I bet the Republicans will appreciate your assistan...no, forget that. You might sway some votes, but they never appreciate anything.

You are providing all the more reason to keep the wretched little virus factories away from everyone. And since the invention of insurance, which predates crappy vaccines, most doctors have no choice but to push all the vaccines they think the patients need on them - in most modern practices the software brings it up before the doctor does. Well patients are MUCH more profitable than sick ones.

Btw, even with a google search, I didn't find that the "14 year gappers" had created support groups, demonstrated, refused to act in their own or others best interests, or even, exist in any but a vanishingly small number, vs the very real threat from the active carriers among us right now. So if that's the sort of thing that occupies you, you are on your own. I'd rather talk to people with something to say.

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Can you put down your pitchfork long enough to discuss the root causes of the anti-vax problem? [View all] whereisjustice Feb 2015 OP

you left out: they do not want to see there is a problem, till they find a scapegoat bettyellen Feb 2015 #1

and, you must be BRAVE! snooper2 Feb 2015 #199

pitchforks blackcrow Feb 2015 #2

People just want to feel in control because it makes them feel good. TransitJohn Feb 2015 #3

sadly, because of this impulse to believe it is 100% an outside cause, few advocate bettyellen Feb 2015 #223

No, eject them from society. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #4

I agree gopiscrap Feb 2015 #75

If it were about the species we would not have atomic weapons. zeemike Feb 2015 #81

Throw em in Concentration Camps! Hari Seldon Feb 2015 #121

Are you ann--- Feb 2015 #126

It's not a huge step from "eject them from society" to "concentration camps" Fumesucker Feb 2015 #130

Baloney, the Jews thought no such thing treestar Feb 2015 #184

No. Just throw 'em off DU... SidDithers Feb 2015 #222

Really it would be more efficient to line them up and shoot them. Chemisse Feb 2015 #134

yep 2pooped2pop Feb 2015 #174

With right wing comments like that it is hard to tell who is more Coo Coo For Cocoa Puffs. GoneFishin Feb 2015 #209

yes it is 2pooped2pop Feb 2015 #221

#11 - piss-poor science education. 70% of Americans believe that angels actually exist. Q.E.D. - nt KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #5

I had to check the comments before posting because I knew someone else would have Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #169

Your response would make a fine OP and allow you to elaborate somewhat on its themes. There's KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #183

Haven't read it, but it sounds like it indeed is running along the same lines of thought. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #190

K&R. Dumbing down of the population has succeeded. We can see icecaps and glaciers melting and still Overseas Feb 2015 #268

Thank you, recommended. It is not like all this suspicion is coming from a vacuum dissentient Feb 2015 #6

Bullshit jberryhill Feb 2015 #14

Missing the point dissentient Feb 2015 #16

There is no way to alter their perceptions of reality. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #19

Wow, to me that is beyond extreme dissentient Feb 2015 #21

Since anti-vaxxers are an asymetric political group, you're right about politicans. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #23

So the pro-vaxers want to 'remove those who don't agree with them from society'! Wow. That sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #53

+1000 n/t 2pooped2pop Feb 2015 #180

Does Putin allow his comrades to be vaccinated or just segments of society? snooper2 Feb 2015 #201

Are you in the wrong thread or something? My response was to a PRO-VAXER who wants to eliminate sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #236

Putin is Big Pharma, I believe he is proposing elimination of anyone who disagrees with his ways snooper2 Feb 2015 #237

So you agree then with the Pro Vaxer I responded to who proposes the elimination of those who dare sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #239

I think this is what you're grasping for... cui bono Feb 2015 #257

Thank you, and since I've never voiced an opinion about Putin, and don't know this person btw, it sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #292

Pure ignorance on your part. HERVEPA Feb 2015 #208

Ignorance? Regarding what? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #293

totally agree. bbgrunt Feb 2015 #254

Don't let people's anger repel you. Vaccines are extremely important. cui bono Feb 2015 #259

I am repelled. But not about vaccines, I am well informed on the subject, as much as anyone can be. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #281

I am disappointed also. Thanks for putting it so well. nm rhett o rick Feb 2015 #284

I definitely agree with you on that. cui bono Feb 2015 #286

Love that quote, it is absolutely true. It doesn't bother me at all, as FDR said, 'I welcome their sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #287

If you're joining the anti-vaxxers, you don't give a shit about human lives. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #265

This message was self-deleted by its author rhett o rick Feb 2015 #283

unfortunately 2pooped2pop Feb 2015 #175

wow 2pooped2pop Feb 2015 #173

You're not the only one. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #294

I feel that way about people who refuse to see the problems with the Dem Party and its leaders, cui bono Feb 2015 #260

Bullshit bullshit jberryhill Feb 2015 #37

It doesn't take a psychic to see that some folks make this connection dissentient Feb 2015 #44

When you look at an issue dispassionately Chemisse Feb 2015 #136

But once people become suspicious Chemisse Feb 2015 #135

The vaccines simply as profit to PhRMA is a ludicrous conclusion Trekologer Feb 2015 #160

Good luck! eom fried eggs Feb 2015 #7

Wow....you only thought you might be digressing by end of Point 8?..... pkdu Feb 2015 #8

I'm not anti-vax, but you'll just alienate anti-vaxers without acknowledging where whereisjustice Feb 2015 #25

Actually considering what anti-vaxxers have to say has made the problem WORSE. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #156

Simply saying that you vaccinate your kids to an anti-vaxer Bettie Feb 2015 #200

Fuck Rand Paul jberryhill Feb 2015 #9

? whereisjustice Feb 2015 #58

Rand Paul was interviewed on CNN rpannier Feb 2015 #116

I wouldn't want to. Liberalynn Feb 2015 #241

America is not a nation with a sweet, benevolent government. There is a lot of distrust. Bonobo Feb 2015 #10

Would you be interested in a recipe for cornflake doused fried chicken? NYC_SKP Feb 2015 #11

Then don't listen to the government. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #15

Yelling "burn the witch" really isn't going to get more people vaccinated, that's for sure whereisjustice Feb 2015 #30

Yes, it will. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #157

Doctors who are ann--- Feb 2015 #127

No. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #12

Precisely jberryhill Feb 2015 #17

Yes> And I do. And I know it worked. Because I am old enough to have whereisjustice Feb 2015 #32

I'll tell you what: Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #213

But you are not thinking of the differential effect - the important part is making sure whereisjustice Feb 2015 #271

Anti-vaxxers at DU should be banned... SidDithers Feb 2015 #13

+1,000,000,000,000 MohRokTah Feb 2015 #18

lol - like someone coming back from Africa, due to Ebola risk? hahahahahahah whereisjustice Feb 2015 #35

The "isolation from society" attitude is downright creepy Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #114

Do you think so...... Historic NY Feb 2015 #153

Perhaps a little context to what my comment was based on would help Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #279

Funny, you know how Ebola didn't spread in the US? NuclearDem Feb 2015 #217

u might be looking a little anti social 2pooped2pop Feb 2015 #186

Yep. DU shouldn't be giving a platform for these idiots. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #26

Oh for the good ole days........... leftofcool Feb 2015 #124

Lots of opinions will get you banned... SidDithers Feb 2015 #143

The last time I checked leftofcool Feb 2015 #148

+1000000 J_J_ Feb 2015 #227

Banned people keep coming back.. SidDithers Feb 2015 #274

+1000 n/t 2pooped2pop Feb 2015 #187

Or at least sent to the dungeon treestar Feb 2015 #177

Yup. The dungeon, or the astrology, crystals and moon-bombing group...nt SidDithers Feb 2015 #178

So should gunners. Crunchy Frog Feb 2015 #243

Anti-intellectualism is the root cause anti-vaxxers, mixed with more than a modicum of ignorance. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #20

Sorry, you are wrong: dont-call-them-dumb-experts-fighting-anti-vaccine-movement whereisjustice Feb 2015 #267

The only place anyone is going to tell you have blood on your hands for being rational, appears to sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #22

I think I'm supposed to call my Dr. if I experience symptoms of tuberculosis or liver failure... lol whereisjustice Feb 2015 #27

Or if you DIE! Lol. 'Call your doctor if you experience any of the following side effects, strange sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #47

Or erections lasting longer than 4 hours Art_from_Ark Feb 2015 #115

I think I must be the only one juvenile enough to find that funny. Chemisse Feb 2015 #137

No, you're not. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #155

Anti-vaxxers must be ejected from society. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #28

Hey, let's put moms in jail for being concerned about what they put in their children's bodies. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #36

I'm so happy the internet didn't exist during the smallpox vaccination campaign. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #39

some regular extremists here are incapable of discussion, they've already called me a killer :) whereisjustice Feb 2015 #50

Just consider the sources when ever that happens, that is what I do. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #64

you are correct G_j Feb 2015 #192

There are NO reasonable concerns about vaccines. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #147

No need to put them in jail. HappyMe Feb 2015 #152

Most are concerned about what can get into their children's bodies in the form of a deadly disease treestar Feb 2015 #188

My response was to the pro-vaxer who advocates eliminating people for daring to ask questions sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #238

No one said eliminate them haikugal Feb 2015 #255

What do you mean eliminating them? treestar Feb 2015 #291

Why am I not surprised at your stance? nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #234

Any other anti-social people you want to get rid of? leftofcool Feb 2015 #125

We already lock up criminals, so other than dangerous anti-vaxxers who are standing in the way of... MohRokTah Feb 2015 #149

Performance art, at it's best. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2015 #225

+1000 Yep, people are bombarded with these ads, literally. dissentient Feb 2015 #29

Translation: Big Pharma mercury sheeple argle bargle. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #33

While I appreciate what you say Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #179

so? treestar Feb 2015 #181

Actually, the root cause was an unbelievably fraudulent study pushed by an idiot NuclearDem Feb 2015 #24

Yes! Wgles Feb 2015 #250

Those are not the root causes of the anti-vax problem. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #31

yes- I am aware of that, but what you neglect is that most people didn't know whereisjustice Feb 2015 #38

Ethylmercury != methylmercury NuclearDem Feb 2015 #41

it doesn't matter, the damage was done, you either fix it or deal with the whereisjustice Feb 2015 #79

Yes, let's surrender to people's ignorance. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #85

You'd rather stick with technology developed in 1920s that freaks people out? whereisjustice Feb 2015 #108

Dihydrogen monoxide freaks people out too. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #220

Except it wasn't. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #43

Once the trust is shaken, it's hard to get it back. Chemisse Feb 2015 #138

And just who shook that trust? haikugal Feb 2015 #256

Does it really matter now? Chemisse Feb 2015 #258

I'm seeing that and haikugal Feb 2015 #262

And apparently some people don't know that mercury wasn't in the shot... SidDithers Feb 2015 #168

His study would have never gained traction without a skyrocketing autism rate fried eggs Feb 2015 #40

...or an expanded definition of autism. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #42

I don't know if you're intentionally minimizing it or fried eggs Feb 2015 #60

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #72

Yes, we're done. You have no correct info fried eggs Feb 2015 #94

Or maybe it's organic food! Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #46

I certainly hope the person who put that graphic together Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #182

Good christ, reall? Wifi and cell phones? TransitJohn Feb 2015 #67

Are you serious? Asking questions fried eggs Feb 2015 #93

There is a reason. It's just a matter of finding it. Chemisse Feb 2015 #139

No point in asking questions when you refuse to accept the answers. nt hack89 Feb 2015 #172

Autism rates started going up high when Hyundai started selling cars in the US, 1986. snooper2 Feb 2015 #203

Well, sheep like or just someone who knows what the electromagnetic spectrum is, and various parts TransitJohn Feb 2015 #266

Could also be our understanding of autism is getting better rpannier Feb 2015 #117

This message was self-deleted by its author Alkene Feb 2015 #288

most dangerous part of vaccines is the drive to the doctor's office. let the antis pray away their msongs Feb 2015 #34

50,000+ dead from flu and pneumonia in US/year - and the sick will go to work whereisjustice Feb 2015 #45

and that has nothign to do DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #52

Yes it does, It has everything to do with it. Companies won't vaccinate employees and they force whereisjustice Feb 2015 #55

we are talking about CHILDREN DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #66

Well here's another fact, the measles vaccine I was given as child was not effective as expected whereisjustice Feb 2015 #89

B: public campaigns DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #98

Adults have every right to say no to the flu shot. Chemisse Feb 2015 #140

By far, the majority of people who die from the flu & pneumonia are the elder4ly & already sick. napi21 Feb 2015 #77

Look, you go to work with the flu and see how much you get done, and then when whereisjustice Feb 2015 #80

ok, let's grant some points DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #48

Again - it comes down to trust. If the government is worried, they'll win trust not by yelling witch whereisjustice Feb 2015 #57

do you really think DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #70

Oh wow, I don't think you are helping your cause frazzled Feb 2015 #49

You are preaching to the choir - the problem is, you haven't figured out how to win trust whereisjustice Feb 2015 #54

I think the problem is much more culturally based frazzled Feb 2015 #71

maybe ironic that your sigline says "women should be able to make their own healthcare decisions" nashville_brook Feb 2015 #194

It's ironic that you don't see the difference between frazzled Feb 2015 #245

I'm finding all the vaccine hysteria amusing Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #51

Measles was eradicated in the US fifteen years ago. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #56

whoah slow down there Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #61

There wouldn't have been an outbreak period if people had been getting vaccinated. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #68

That doesn't logically follow Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #73

You're kidding me, right? NuclearDem Feb 2015 #76

Not even slightly Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #78

No, this has been discussed, discussed, and discussed again. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #82

None of that is relevant to my questions Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #88

Wow, you really are gifted at mischaracterization elias7 Feb 2015 #122

It's funny when anti-vaxxers go on and on about scientific evidence... SidDithers Feb 2015 #170

It's even funnier... CanSocDem Feb 2015 #204

Oh, good. More of the woo crowd checking in... SidDithers Feb 2015 #207

You are kidding, right? Jamastiene Feb 2015 #163

You are not actually asking questions. jeff47 Feb 2015 #215

What happened? A fucking measles outbreak at Disneyland... SidDithers Feb 2015 #59

and? Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #62

Probably for a few kids, yes. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2015 #111

The one's who die, will die... rpannier Feb 2015 #118

The possibility of measles returning as an endemic disease in the US is what's at stake bhikkhu Feb 2015 #69

The problem is the Govt. stopped funding public awareness and costs have skyrocketed whereisjustice Feb 2015 #63

As part of reasons number 1 & 2 here is a good NYT article whereisjustice Feb 2015 #65

The ACA REQUIRES all healthcare plans to provide immunizations without a copay. SunSeeker Feb 2015 #87

Mississippi and West Virginia, are the only two States that do not allow religious exemption from Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #166

So money is not the reason, which is my point. nt SunSeeker Feb 2015 #247

Nah. One of this nation's biggest problems is too much discussion and not enough pitchforks. Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #74

Except in the 1960s it was very common to see PSAs on TV and radio whereisjustice Feb 2015 #84

BIG PHARMA DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #83

There is one word for it, IGNORANCE, and while most of the ignorance and thoughtlessness JDPriestly Feb 2015 #86

thank you, and agree, the price of vaccines has tripled in last 15 years, dr offices in tx whereisjustice Feb 2015 #91

Vaccinations for these common diseases JDPriestly Feb 2015 #109

+1!!! whereisjustice Feb 2015 #113

Yes. Trillo Feb 2015 #233

Ignorance and woo. Stop feeding the stupidity on point Feb 2015 #90

the problem is - your response is even worse than their assertions, seriously whereisjustice Feb 2015 #95

I would like to give this post a thousand recs. Voice for Peace Feb 2015 #92

Agree - thanks for your post whereisjustice Feb 2015 #96

The anti-vaccination lunatics are the arrogant ones. SunSeeker Feb 2015 #97

You are not very old, I remember polio and measles, etc - anti-vax is nothing new whereisjustice Feb 2015 #101

Bullshit. It is not about cost. SunSeeker Feb 2015 #106

I agree, this is one of the best threads about the topic I have read on DU so far dissentient Feb 2015 #100

FINALLY!!!!!! DeSwiss Feb 2015 #99

lol and thank you, much better than being called a blood stained killer :) whereisjustice Feb 2015 #105

I think too many here KT2000 Feb 2015 #102

agree - I bet many trashing this thread never got their measles booster which is whereisjustice Feb 2015 #104

Can You RobinA Feb 2015 #165

here is one report whereisjustice Feb 2015 #273

maybe you are refering to antibody titration (titering)? TB test is also common whereisjustice Feb 2015 #275

This thing is Salem witch trials all over again arikara Feb 2015 #103

And don't forget the recent fraud claims connected to Merck's MMR vaccine, complete with whistle-blowers. pnwmom Feb 2015 #107

thanks, there is another irony, between 1957 and 1971 measles vaccine was "less" effective whereisjustice Feb 2015 #110

That's right. Many of the people filled with outrage are under-vaccinated themselves pnwmom Feb 2015 #112

It was a killed virus back then HockeyMom Feb 2015 #142

+1 Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #145

Way too funny. Eko Feb 2015 #119

Look at all that acid in there!!!!!!!! Eko Feb 2015 #120

LOL, I thought the exact same thing with #7. trotsky Feb 2015 #162

To go down you list, one by one: Humanist_Activist Feb 2015 #123

Your post is exactly what brings the pitchforks out kcr Feb 2015 #128

THANK-YOU! Chemisse Feb 2015 #129

Naw, DUers love their pitchforks. leftofcool Feb 2015 #131

We should work with the people who think gays should not be able to get married then. Eko Feb 2015 #158

Brava!!! haikugal Feb 2015 #252

never mind the question, the answer is reddread Feb 2015 #132

You are paying attention. woo me with science Feb 2015 #146

I've noticed that as well. JEB Feb 2015 #224

I think a lot of people already figured that out 'that the pitchfork wielders' true agenda is sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #295

To this list I would add the introduction of a vaccine that might not even be necessary. Chemisse Feb 2015 #133

Had all my mercury fillings removed 11 years ago after a gum reaction to a crown Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #141

The root cause is that Idiocracy is actually a documentary. hobbit709 Feb 2015 #144

I have issues with #8 Major Nikon Feb 2015 #150

I have heard of no anti-vaxer state the points you made. randome Feb 2015 #151

Ladies and gentlemen, I present another sad case of Orrex Feb 2015 #154

I will tell you what. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #159

I Suggested This RobinA Feb 2015 #161

Righteousness has nothing to do with it. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #164

"No reasoning with the righteous" jberryhill Feb 2015 #195

This is an international problem. Learn about outbreaks in the Netherlands and Canada which stream Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #167

17 yrs ago, my son had a reaction to 2 year old, zillion shots. late at night, he went into autistic seabeyond Feb 2015 #171

i have reactions to flu shots nashville_brook Feb 2015 #191

we don't have answers because the research has been politicized. seabeyond Feb 2015 #206

Agreed. I've talked about that intersection - and the need Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #296

I am very sorry that your son had a bad reaction to the vaccinations. KMOD Feb 2015 #193

Not vaccinating is plain stupid treestar Feb 2015 #176

You fail to understand how things have changed, if you don't adjust the campaign whereisjustice Feb 2015 #263

It sickened thousands? treestar Feb 2015 #290

Great op. NCTraveler Feb 2015 #185

thanks, appreciate it. most people can't seem to do more than skim and overreact whereisjustice Feb 2015 #264

I want to change one part of my comment. NCTraveler Feb 2015 #289

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #189

Try again when you learn how vaccines work. arcane1 Feb 2015 #226

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #230

Do you have a link that supports your claim that unvaccinated refugees caused the outbreak(s)? cyberswede Feb 2015 #232

I believe Pres Obama AND Hillary were both guilty of the same type of vaccine hysteria... 1bigdude Feb 2015 #196

"We are over-medicated" jberryhill Feb 2015 #197

Never mind that without vaccines, we'd be even more medicated. Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #216

Based on admittedly personal and anecdotal experience Bettie Feb 2015 #198

Your long post leaves out something important. MineralMan Feb 2015 #202

This is a good start. LWolf Feb 2015 #205

No, because the root cause is stupidity and fraud. All of your arguments are wrong. jeff47 Feb 2015 #210

^This Act_of_Reparation Feb 2015 #214

^^^^^must read. Barack_America Feb 2015 #269

It's not about trust. Avalux Feb 2015 #211

K&R Oilwellian Feb 2015 #212

Conspiracy whackos and people with too much time on their hands underpants Feb 2015 #218

Horse. Fucking. Shit. we can do it Feb 2015 #219

No. Iggo Feb 2015 #228

Public funding of elections! That would rebuild trust in the longer term. Trillo Feb 2015 #229

When it comes to obnoxiousdrunk Feb 2015 #231

There is only one reason for being in the anti-vax side adieu Feb 2015 #235

Stupidity and self-important privilege? Check. 6000eliot Feb 2015 #240

Wrong. We CAN begin to fix a real problem without fully understanding others. Orsino Feb 2015 #242

Whew! Thank you soooooo much! I wanted to write this but you did it first! DesertDiamond Feb 2015 #244

my kids are vaccinated but I think you have a very good point renate Feb 2015 #246

Every single one of your 10 points is completely irrelevant. Gman Feb 2015 #248

11. Needles ThoughtCriminal Feb 2015 #249

An arbitration? Sure. Tell you what. They leave the pre-pubescent wmd at home, I'll leave the jtuck004 Feb 2015 #251

Funny you should say that. Did you know millions of middle aged people who thought whereisjustice Feb 2015 #272

ROFL. You sent me a video in which a doctor says the anti-vaxxers are wrong, and that people my age jtuck004 Feb 2015 #276

you think I am an anti-vaxer? that's your take away? Christ I can't believe I wasted my time w/ you whereisjustice Feb 2015 #280

You missed it... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2015 #253

"7. We are exposed to too many chemicals in our daily lives." What does that even mean? Liberal Veteran Feb 2015 #261

Thank you for posting. All good points, also don't forget this year's ineffective flu shot. joanbarnes Feb 2015 #270

Most rational post on the vaccine issue yet. Bravo whereisjustice! Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #277

Good job! rwsanders Feb 2015 #278

Sometimes pitchforks are necessary Blecht Feb 2015 #282

Absolutely not; in fact mine is held higher. RiffRandell Feb 2015 #285

I am pleased that there are 90 members of DU, Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #297

Agree, whereisjustice Feb 2015 #298