General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Yes we are all Democrats. That is checking a box. No, we don't seem to have common aims in general. [View all]BainsBane
(53,012 posts)In which you entered threads on entirely unrelated subjects to insist it was some cryptic campaign for Hillary Clinton. You are not alone or the most persistent in having done it, but it is one of those things that leaves me scratching my head.
Most of these kinds of threads are about the infernal presidential election and Clinton in particular, subjects that people have gone on about endlessly since 2012 at least. I would be very glad to be mistaken on that point. If you really do care about an issue, a social reform, I would like to hear what it is specifically and how you think it can be addressed.
I made it quite clear that I do not rest my view of social change and politics on a single individual, so to claim I am reacting to an insult about "my favorite politician" is disingenuous. The entire point of my post was that no individual is going to transform the nature of the capitalist state. I have no favorite politician. In fact, I don't give a shit about politicians until I have to vote for one. Unlike many here, I don't spend years engaging in fantasy presidential politics because it is a lot of noise about nothing. It amounts to nothing and represents nothing other than change over in the political elite. I care about social justice, social movements, organization, doing something to make society better. I'm open to any and all ideas about how to do that.
You announce that I and others here who don't agree with you on...what you won't say, want to see rapacious corporate greed, deregulation of Wall Street, and endless war. Why would you make such a claim? Based on what? You assume. You assume in a way that shows that you haven't tried even a little bit to understand people who disagree with on.... again, you won't say what in specific terms this disagreement is about. You instead claim based entirely on assumption that anyone who doesn't fall in lock step with your particular way of expressing anger promotes the interests of the few over the many.
I have only seen you post about two things: 1) your hatred of Hillary Clinton and your resentment toward other Democrats on this site. It's hard for me to get a sense of what you actually want. When I have before suggested organizing and working to transform the party in your local community and state, you became very hostile. You shouldn't have to do that, you claimed. So what is the point of your post if not to bring about change or comment on the presidential election? What do you seek to achieve?
As for socialism, this is what you wrote:
It is not our common goal to crush the wages of the American worker.
That is about the exploitation of labor under capitalism. That is about profit, the accumulation of capital through the exploitation of labor. Then you claim you are not opposed to profit. So which is it?. You may not be red. I am. I see nothing wrong with it. You don't have the familiarity with Marxist theory to recognize that is part of what you are articulating. When you denounce "corporatism" you are denouncing capital. I presume you really don't mean corporations because that can be anything from a local grocery store to a person's business making artisan products in their home. A corporation in the contemporary use of the word is simply a tax status. You mean big money, capital. Do you not?
My reference to your defense of billions of dollars in gun profits and the enormous political influence of the best financed and most powerful lobby in Washington is to point to inconsistencies. Why should that perversion of politics be any less important than Wall Street's? Why is money generated through killing people in the US better than through killing them abroad or just plain usury? It's all billions of dollars going to buy politicians and subvert the will of the people.
So here we have two issues where you are clearly to the right of me: guns and capitalist profit, which when it involves hiring any worker, is ALWAYS based on the exploitation of labor. You should really read some Marx. Yet you insist that I and others are Third Way, when here you have just defended a very conservative position in regard to unfettered gun profits and their stranglehold over the political process. Perhaps, just perhaps, you ought to consider for a moment that yours is not the only way of thinking about politics and that everyone you doesn't fall in lock step isn't a centrist or Third Wayer, especially if they don't identify as such. Perhaps, just perhaps, you should make an effort to inquire about what values people actually hold rather assuming? Perhaps you might consider that others have knowledge and background that might actually assist in enacting change
The point about racism and misogyny was not just about you. Many have engaged in it, though yes, you told me I should not use the word privilege because it might offend white people. Then you quite nastily lectured two African American members who said they supported economic policy directed to aid income disparity because they had the nerve to also care about racism and its impact on their lives. I also observed that you treated them as the enemy, something I found odd considering your prior statement on your own background. I have been lectured by many people who solidly align with you about "dividing DUers" by discussing human equality and social justice. They exclude the majority of America from consideration, and then have the nerve to claim other support the 1 percent because they don't share their assessment of a particular member of the political elite. Some of them do so despite the fact they are far more prosperous than the vast majority of Americans and the very people they are accusing of aligning with the 1 percent.
Finally this:
Again, I ask what it is you seek. You claim you have "heard enough." What is your proposal then? What do you seek to do to change this? Is your only goal to get people to shut up? Or do you actually want to change something? If so, how? Or is this all about rhetoric and anger rather than substance? If you want to make something happen, I'd love to hear it. If all you care about is not hearing something you think might be heretical, you can put a bunch of people on ignore and create your own little bubble of people to emote with.