General Discussion

haele

(15,561 posts)

114. To insure "comfort", do we then put the onus on the club to insure no manly-looking women

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 04:45 PM

Mar 2015

use the women's locker room? Especially women with that extra "Y" chromosome with larger female genitalia than normal, or had a large labia that can look like a ballsack - I know, I went to bootcamp, service and training school, and was stationed on a Navy ship; communal living with as many as 65 other women at a time for over 6 years - and a good 5% of them at any one time could have passed for men on a quick glance if you didn't know any better. And heck, there were a few women I served with over the years that made me uncomfortable taking a shower near, no matter if they were straight, bi-, or lesbian.

Maybe the club should ensure that there are no lesbians or bi-women? No one that could get jealous, or possessive, or flip out and try and use rape as a control method over some other woman they want? There were a lot of women's prison movies when I was younger, and there was always a "shower scene" in them that could be threatening or scary to most straight women who think rape is about sexual attraction.

Anyway, you originally brought hetero men - "dudes", as it were, pretending to be trans and sneaking into a woman's locker room for a peek and maybe more, and that's what my comments were addressing. The woman's discomfort issue with the potential for sexual assault from a trans has been discussed ad nauseum throughout the thread.

Haele

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Planet Fitness cancels woman's membership after her complaints of transgender woman in locker room [View all] Contrary1 Mar 2015 OP

How does this work legally? Oktober Mar 2015 #1

Generally a letter from a physician or psychiatrist who generally writes it after x amount of time MillennialDem Mar 2015 #22

Would the same requirements be met by someone... Oktober Mar 2015 #31

Surgery is irrelevant so yes. Regarding hormones the vast majority of trans people take MillennialDem Mar 2015 #48

Or if they live in my home county and can't even get a diagnosis that doesn't involve Jamastiene Mar 2015 #118

They don't require any letters from what I understand. LisaL Mar 2015 #249

If she identifies as a woman, Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #266

Thanks for just calling me a he. :( and any ordinary man who slaps on a wig or styles his hair MillennialDem Mar 2015 #291

According to another article I read, locker room City Lights Mar 2015 #295

Legally? It works like this.... jberryhill Mar 2015 #44

Legally I dunno, -clinically- it works something like this... HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #95

All of those steps seem very reasonable... Oktober Mar 2015 #96

I think most peoples' concerns about this are based on failure to understand HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #101

The person I am describing likely does not have gender issues... Oktober Mar 2015 #123

We went from generalities to some specific person there HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #136

I think the poster is thinking that there are most likely some a-holes out there who are hetero male cui bono Mar 2015 #172

Thats exactly right. We all know there are guys like that out there. 7962 Mar 2015 #220

5 and 6 are not actually the case Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #164

Surgical transition is enlightenment Mar 2015 #221

Many things in your list are MYOB. hunter Mar 2015 #260

I think it's all pretty much MOFB, but during the -real life- trial HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #265

I don't know how the legal angles work, but they promise a "no judgement zone" in their ads. I'd genwah Mar 2015 #139

They don't require anything as far as I can tell. LisaL Mar 2015 #247

This is a private club that can enforce their own rules, especially regarding who is and is not underahedgerow Mar 2015 #2

This is a public business Demeter Mar 2015 #205

Why do you say that? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #207

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #3

Bull. MrModerate Mar 2015 #5

The article isn't great because it leaves out some things. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #7

Sorry, but you look too manly to be in here. Revanchist Mar 2015 #21

Seems someone else in this thread also needs to see this pic. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #23

And it isn't obvious (to anyone, not singling you out Aegis) Revanchist Mar 2015 #28

I think it was an excellent post. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #29

I saw the acronym CIS in another thread... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #147

Wiki can explain it better than I Revanchist Mar 2015 #149

thanks. nt awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #150

Cool site. I'm inspired to cut my long hair azmom Mar 2015 #257

... AngryAmish Mar 2015 #30

I don't much disagree Snow Leopard Mar 2015 #10

Right to complain about a woman using the womens' locker room? Why? Oneironaut Mar 2015 #59

Is this a double negative, saying you agree with that now hidden bigoted post?Please clarify, thanks uppityperson Mar 2015 #228

Wow, been a while since I saw such overt bigotry on DU. F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #16

I'm just waiting for one of the two in this subthread to start talking about Jamastiene Mar 2015 #203

Speaking of clubs cancelling memberships... Scootaloo Mar 2015 #17

K&R! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #33

I love the smell of bigotry Treant Mar 2015 #18

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #230

So what do you propose trans-people do? icymist Mar 2015 #233

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #234

How DARE they have to pee! greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #236

Poor baby, done in by the rules of the forum. Again. uppityperson Mar 2015 #238

What should transgenered people do if there are no single bathrooms? City Lights Mar 2015 #239

Actually, these bigots just want tran-people to go away. icymist Mar 2015 #243

Yep, totally agree. City Lights Mar 2015 #244

Yes. SanchoPanza Mar 2015 #20

PLUS ONE! Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #25

Plenty of cis-gendered women don't look particularly feminine eridani Mar 2015 #32

Well said! RKP5637 Mar 2015 #34

Magnificent post Scootaloo Mar 2015 #35

*mic drop* Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #50

Fantastic! Hong Kong Cavalier Mar 2015 #55

Great response! DawgHouse Mar 2015 #107

Excellent post! City Lights Mar 2015 #128

Where have you been all my life? Jamastiene Mar 2015 #204

Well said. Equality for all. azmom Mar 2015 #222

Well said, thank you for this post. eom uppityperson Mar 2015 #229

Wow, beautifully stated! Spazito Mar 2015 #255

one of the best smackdowns I have ever seen on DU Skittles Mar 2015 #301

It would be nice if we lived in a world where every person pnwmom Mar 2015 #4

I don't see the connection between . . . MrModerate Mar 2015 #6

The story I linked to is why women like the one in the OP worry when pnwmom Mar 2015 #8

And if the woman in question had been born a woman? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #11

Yes, there are. But that's not what the OP was about. pnwmom Mar 2015 #12

No, it is about a woman who thought another woman wasn't "female-looking" enough. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #13

She didn't know the person was female. If a transwoman doesn't transition, pnwmom Mar 2015 #14

Of course she didn't know, therein lies the issue. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #15

How about checkpoints outside the female loos? Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #24

Don't forget TSA's Full Body Scanners! I guess now all will need to be fitted with these, you know, RKP5637 Mar 2015 #36

Very very few trans women use women's locker rooms or bathrooms before transition. This number is so MillennialDem Mar 2015 #26

I can't think of a perfect solution, but I can certainly empathize. The core problem is IMO that RKP5637 Mar 2015 #40

The thing is I'm invisible. I still don't out myself as trans because I "pass" and while MillennialDem Mar 2015 #47

It's all very sad, the intolerance and hatefulness. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #49

This makes a lot of sense. I'm not surprised transwomen try to be considerate. pnwmom Mar 2015 #87

Right, there is still way too much sexual abuse of women - but what I want to know is MillennialDem Mar 2015 #113

I'm thinking individual fully-enclosed toilets with locks. pnwmom Mar 2015 #294

By how much and by what measure will the current policy of the club affect this number? LanternWaste Mar 2015 #293

She found out. SanchoPanza Mar 2015 #27

That was my thought too! It was all explained to her, but yet she persisted. I agree with RKP5637 Mar 2015 #43

She knew by the time they tossed her the fuck out of the club because she kept running her mouth. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2015 #46

She knew once she was told. stone space Mar 2015 #296

She didn't know *at first.* But when she complained, she was informed that tblue37 Mar 2015 #299

I see. Treant Mar 2015 #19

If you were a father and you took your 8 year old to the ladies', and a person who appeared pnwmom Mar 2015 #90

Actually, no it would not. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #157

Right. And it's not because you distrust transwomen. pnwmom Mar 2015 #158

This message was self-deleted by its author underahedgerow Mar 2015 #226

You seem comfortable with your 'daughter in the bathroom with a trans-woman' story. icymist Mar 2015 #256

No, absolutely not. I'm concerned about straight men and pedophiles pnwmom Mar 2015 #300

The connection is obvious... Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #9

You and me usually fall on the same side of these issues... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #115

You can do the same in this gym. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #122

Thank you. Matariki Mar 2015 #148

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #153

Yep. Matariki Mar 2015 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #125

What did I say that gave you the impression I was a hater? pnwmom Mar 2015 #168

So you are just a pre-op hater. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #170

So you think all straight men are actually pre-op transwomen? pnwmom Mar 2015 #173

No, but, as you said, you can't tell the difference, so I'm assuming you are advocating for... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #174

You're assuming wrong. If you read my posts here, I did not advocate that. pnwmom Mar 2015 #175

But why bring it up in threads that have nothing to do with it? Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #176

This woman was probably concerned about the issue of safety, and that's a real issue, pnwmom Mar 2015 #177

And the safety of the transwoman? Should that be a consideration? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #178

No, see, they should be segregated, for thier protection, of course! n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #180

Apparently so. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #183

Eh, woke up from going to bed really early, just laying in bed tapping on my phone... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #185

I have been explicitly including transwomen in the overall group of women, so yes. pnwmom Mar 2015 #186

What the hell do straight men have to do with this? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #189

Individual bathrooms everywhere may be impractical.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #195

Thats an assumption on your part, and its offtopic. Indeed if it were an issue.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #179

WTF does that even mean, "hasn't physically transitioned"? Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #199

Taking hormones means that the transwoman is physically transitioning, pnwmom Mar 2015 #250

Not all transwomen can afford - Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #270

Unfortunately, straight men sometimes do enter ladies' rooms pnwmom Mar 2015 #274

We're not talking about straight men. Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #276

But taking hormones is not required to be trans. uppityperson Mar 2015 #271

Not you, the woman who reported her./NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #211

"Protect the rights of the minority while respecting the wishes of the majority"? Really? Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #289

(Robot mode) This person in this story was not a man... Oneironaut Mar 2015 #63

Yes, in this particular story. But the woman didn't know that pnwmom Mar 2015 #200

What are we supposed to do? Strip search and do a genital check of Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #206

What are we supposed to do? Let any straight male thug walk into the ladies pnwmom Mar 2015 #224

You seem to miss that she is saying "straight" men, so we'd need some sort of sexual orientation uppityperson Mar 2015 #235

I wouldn't know, but the whole notion is ridiculous because it's not an issue in the first place. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #219

You're right. Straight men don't disguise themselves as women pnwmom Mar 2015 #225

We're talking about two different things. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #227

You've posted hundreds of times on this topic, are you a lawyer? CreekDog Mar 2015 #290

The woman didn't start the campaign of harrassment until... stone space Mar 2015 #297

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #81

Still concern trolling I see, at least you didn't link to a TERF website again. Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #167

You missed words there. "what is a solution that will keep all women safe, INCLUDING transgender uppityperson Mar 2015 #231

The rapists were not identifying as women. Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #268

Good for Planet Fitness. HappyMe Mar 2015 #37

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #38

Just because someone has a penis you cannot assume they are a man. AngryAmish Mar 2015 #41

There is no need to assume a fact. Psychology is not biology. WinkyDink Mar 2015 #58

Then thank goodness in this case the person the woman was freaking out about Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #52

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #53

Anything between the transgendered woman HappyMe Mar 2015 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #66

As I said, what happens between the doctor HappyMe Mar 2015 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #78

As far as doctor/patient confidentiality - yes HappyMe Mar 2015 #80

What solution to this problem do you propose? I look like a woman. I would get harassed MillennialDem Mar 2015 #135

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #140

Do you think MillennialDem Mar 2015 #146

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #152

I say you go to the women's room because you are a woman, period! leftofcool Mar 2015 #154

Poster 48 here... MillennialDem Mar 2015 #134

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #137

The person she was complaining about was not a man. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #64

If someone 'claims' they are a transgender woman, then they probably are. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #70

It stops being about her safety when she made it her mission to Oneironaut Mar 2015 #79

I'm a feminist and women's safety is azmom Mar 2015 #253

I saw nothing in the article HappyMe Mar 2015 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #71

Sure it does. HappyMe Mar 2015 #72

I may have missed it because your post is quite long Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #74

Several of the people you are getting "pushback" from are women. Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #83

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #84

Your opinion is quite familiar, since it is the basis of right-wing framing for laws against TG Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #97

Assuming trans people are likely to be sexually violent is RW. Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #103

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #108

Well, I'm taking your argument to its logical conclusion Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #110

I'm not shutting anything down. Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #119

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #124

Thanks, I appreciate that. Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #132

... Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #145

Thanks you. Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #269

I appreciate the edit Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #105

Men are perhaps a greater danger to transgender people of either sex. hunter Mar 2015 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #82

Yes, she SAYS she understands LGBT issues... Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #93

Would you hold the same consideration for a white woman who won't ride... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #182

Why should she have to provide any "proof?" hunter Mar 2015 #98

In all fairness to the trans woman she was probably attempting to pass as female MillennialDem Mar 2015 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #141

Again, thank you for your thoughtful post. Matariki Mar 2015 #151

Good job, Pooka Fey Demeter Mar 2015 #208

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #210

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #212

I have a question, do you still think the trangender who have SRS "deform their minds and bodies"? Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #213

I have a family member of unstable mind Demeter Mar 2015 #216

Ah, so now it comes out, transgenderism is a fad. Nice to actually encounter a bona fide TERF on DU. Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #217

Being transgender is a "fad"? W. T. F. uppityperson Mar 2015 #261

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #283

I gave some thought to how I would react spinbaby Mar 2015 #39

Planet Fitness has private changing/shower areas. gollygee Mar 2015 #45

She should go back to her home Planet Bigot if she doesn't wanna get with the times. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2015 #42

Problem solved! nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #51

She was given the opportunity to find another gym more to her liking. lpbk2713 Mar 2015 #54

I'm a 65-yr-old woman, and I wouldn't care to see a bio-man WinkyDink Mar 2015 #56

I think we know who you are. nt Logical Mar 2015 #61

What locker room and rest room should transgender women use? gollygee Mar 2015 #69

I assume she does not want them in the building at all, or maybe even out in public. nt Logical Mar 2015 #86

If people did have to change clothes in front of each other do you see a potential problem? Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #106

Why do you assume transgender people are that indiscreet? gollygee Mar 2015 #144

No, I don't. City Lights Mar 2015 #267

It's not us who are ignorant. nt. Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #92

If you don't want people to think you are a bigot, City Lights Mar 2015 #129

If she's just minding her own business, you should mind yours. backscatter712 Mar 2015 #142

I didn't know being a 65 year old woman exempted you from.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #169

What an idiot. I bet she's a bigot on a mission who hated transpeople before she Oneironaut Mar 2015 #57

That's what I think, she was looking to turn it into a situation. I agree with you! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #159

So can any dude claim to "identify as a woman" and get to use the women's locker room? Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #75

To pretty much the same level of abuse as a sign and a door TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #88

exactly n/t fishwax Mar 2015 #240

LOL, yes, any man can do that. Jesus, questions like that is what cause this issue. I guess...... Logical Mar 2015 #89

in TX you have to have a tag an you car.... uponit7771 Mar 2015 #111

Nice! Surprised gay people do not need one. nt Logical Mar 2015 #120

They used to Revanchist Mar 2015 #126

Being gay and transgendered are two entirely different things. KittyWampus Mar 2015 #218

Well, usually companies that actually deal with trans-gendered customers require a doctor's note. haele Mar 2015 #94

It's not just "hot chicks" who might be made uncomfortable by naked people who they perceive as men Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #104

To insure "comfort", do we then put the onus on the club to insure no manly-looking women haele Mar 2015 #114

Ah, yes, someone forgot to tell me that trans-women were sexual predators... backscatter712 Mar 2015 #143

Yup. Once again, this is a non-issue. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #112

+ 100! nt Logical Mar 2015 #121

Yes. LisaL Mar 2015 #251

Florida is about to pass a bill related to this madville Mar 2015 #77

That seems to be the solution that makes sense. Matariki Mar 2015 #155

So often I wish there was no such thing as gender. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #160

That totally *isn't* the solution that makes the most sense, actually. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #163

excellent post, thank you! nt steve2470 Mar 2015 #187

K&R demmiblue Mar 2015 #100

I think we've found a new Fox News correspondent! Initech Mar 2015 #102

Cue the DU anti-trans brigade in 3...2... Jamastiene Mar 2015 #117

And a few have already posted here davidn3600 Mar 2015 #133

Yep, people come with pre-bigoted notions totally not understanding WTF RKP5637 Mar 2015 #161

You can always rely on a few to show up, regulars too, why they aren't... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #171

Way to go, Planet Fitness! City Lights Mar 2015 #127

I both love and hate these threads. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #131

I'm always stunned by some of the comments on a supposedly liberal progressive site. There RKP5637 Mar 2015 #162

these threads confirm my thinking that... steve2470 Mar 2015 #181

I think there are a few who can be educated. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #184

yes these threads are very educational steve2470 Mar 2015 #188

I agree. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #192

I'm a cisgender straight male, as far as adjectives go, and there is a learning curve... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #190

Learning curves are to be expected. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #196

I think its the open to learning part, I approached it with curiousity rather than... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #198

No, what you're seeing, actually... Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #201

another good post, thank you! nt steve2470 Mar 2015 #202

This would be a great OP. Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #214

I've pretty much reached that same conclusion. It's ripe for intrusion by those seeking RKP5637 Mar 2015 #209

I have no idea why Skinner puts up with them. backscatter712 Mar 2015 #232

Did you alert on the posts that offended you? Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #237

Look closer. There are hidden posts in this thread. nt City Lights Mar 2015 #241

Whoops, indeed there are. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #245

Here's one: backscatter712 Mar 2015 #242

Thanks (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #246

Kick and R. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #165

First off, good on Planet Fitness, second off, fuck transphobes... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #166

Well said! City Lights Mar 2015 #215

+1000000000 azmom Mar 2015 #223

+1 bravenak Mar 2015 #277

On the bright side, threads like this make it easy to update my ignore list. n/t backscatter712 Mar 2015 #286

Good for Planet Fitness LadyHawkAZ Mar 2015 #191

I have missed you! Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #193

. LadyHawkAZ Mar 2015 #194

I am always around with two ears... Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #197

This thread has exposed some real ugliness on DU LittleBlue Mar 2015 #248

As well as the same old sexism and male priviledge that women are treated to. Matariki Mar 2015 #252

Respect for trans people shouldn't be contingent on anything LittleBlue Mar 2015 #258

That is an absurd comparison. Respect for women means not marginalizing their voices. Matariki Mar 2015 #259

Trans women are not men LittleBlue Mar 2015 #262

And I didn't say they were. Matariki Mar 2015 #264

Actually it turns out that 'Carlotta Sklodowska' identifies as male on her facebook page Matariki Mar 2015 #298

The woman in this case is a bigot and here's why... Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #273

Bullshit. We're not threatened by trans women. LeftyMom Mar 2015 #278

That's a pretty arrogant use of the word 'we'. Matariki Mar 2015 #279

Just the ones who aren't bigots, apparently Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #280

Are people fucking deaf to anything but their own opinions. Matariki Mar 2015 #281

Apparently you are? Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #284

If you don't want to be called a bigot, stop saying bigoted things. backscatter712 Mar 2015 #285

So what, some provisional, quasi-woman status? LeftyMom Mar 2015 #288

Oddly enough I was thinking that about your posts. LeftyMom Mar 2015 #287

Thank you. I was just thinking the same thing. azmom Mar 2015 #254

In reality, may as well make it anything goes as far as lockeroom use if you have to let anyone brewens Mar 2015 #263

What a thread this was to read. Wish I could say I was surprised by some of the posts but I can't. Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #272

FUCK TRANSPHOBIA PERIOD! ~NT~ b.durruti Mar 2015 #275

AWESOME! K&R all over the place! marym625 Mar 2015 #282

If nothing else, these threads do tend to clue me in on intolerant DUers. This one certainly did... LanternWaste Mar 2015 #292