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enlightenment

(8,830 posts)

221. Surgical transition is

Sun Mar 8, 2015, 03:05 PM

Mar 2015

required in quite a few US states, unfortunately. Some states demand it before they will - for instance - change a birth certificate (some amend, some will reissue).

The problem is no clear set of rules from state to state. It has less to do with the perception of the individual and much more to do with the perception of the rule-makers.

(An fyi - my son recently completed a successful surgical series for a complete phalloplasty - in London. He had originally leaned toward oophectomy, but after research and consultation with his surgeons, opted to go the whole way. It has worked out very well and yes, luck always has something to do with it - but he's very happy with the result. Everyone's mileage varies, but I think that you are expressing the most conservative options. Techniques are improving every day).

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Planet Fitness cancels woman's membership after her complaints of transgender woman in locker room [View all] Contrary1 Mar 2015 OP

How does this work legally? Oktober Mar 2015 #1

Generally a letter from a physician or psychiatrist who generally writes it after x amount of time MillennialDem Mar 2015 #22

Would the same requirements be met by someone... Oktober Mar 2015 #31

Surgery is irrelevant so yes. Regarding hormones the vast majority of trans people take MillennialDem Mar 2015 #48

Or if they live in my home county and can't even get a diagnosis that doesn't involve Jamastiene Mar 2015 #118

They don't require any letters from what I understand. LisaL Mar 2015 #249

If she identifies as a woman, Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #266

Thanks for just calling me a he. :( and any ordinary man who slaps on a wig or styles his hair MillennialDem Mar 2015 #291

According to another article I read, locker room City Lights Mar 2015 #295

Legally? It works like this.... jberryhill Mar 2015 #44

Legally I dunno, -clinically- it works something like this... HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #95

All of those steps seem very reasonable... Oktober Mar 2015 #96

I think most peoples' concerns about this are based on failure to understand HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #101

The person I am describing likely does not have gender issues... Oktober Mar 2015 #123

We went from generalities to some specific person there HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #136

I think the poster is thinking that there are most likely some a-holes out there who are hetero male cui bono Mar 2015 #172

Thats exactly right. We all know there are guys like that out there. 7962 Mar 2015 #220

5 and 6 are not actually the case Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #164

Surgical transition is enlightenment Mar 2015 #221

Many things in your list are MYOB. hunter Mar 2015 #260

I think it's all pretty much MOFB, but during the -real life- trial HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #265

I don't know how the legal angles work, but they promise a "no judgement zone" in their ads. I'd genwah Mar 2015 #139

They don't require anything as far as I can tell. LisaL Mar 2015 #247

This is a private club that can enforce their own rules, especially regarding who is and is not underahedgerow Mar 2015 #2

This is a public business Demeter Mar 2015 #205

Why do you say that? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #207

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #3

Bull. MrModerate Mar 2015 #5

The article isn't great because it leaves out some things. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #7

Sorry, but you look too manly to be in here. Revanchist Mar 2015 #21

Seems someone else in this thread also needs to see this pic. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #23

And it isn't obvious (to anyone, not singling you out Aegis) Revanchist Mar 2015 #28

I think it was an excellent post. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #29

I saw the acronym CIS in another thread... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #147

Wiki can explain it better than I Revanchist Mar 2015 #149

thanks. nt awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #150

Cool site. I'm inspired to cut my long hair azmom Mar 2015 #257

... AngryAmish Mar 2015 #30

I don't much disagree Snow Leopard Mar 2015 #10

Right to complain about a woman using the womens' locker room? Why? Oneironaut Mar 2015 #59

Is this a double negative, saying you agree with that now hidden bigoted post?Please clarify, thanks uppityperson Mar 2015 #228

Wow, been a while since I saw such overt bigotry on DU. F4lconF16 Mar 2015 #16

I'm just waiting for one of the two in this subthread to start talking about Jamastiene Mar 2015 #203

Speaking of clubs cancelling memberships... Scootaloo Mar 2015 #17

K&R! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #33

I love the smell of bigotry Treant Mar 2015 #18

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #230

So what do you propose trans-people do? icymist Mar 2015 #233

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #234

How DARE they have to pee! greatauntoftriplets Mar 2015 #236

Poor baby, done in by the rules of the forum. Again. uppityperson Mar 2015 #238

What should transgenered people do if there are no single bathrooms? City Lights Mar 2015 #239

Actually, these bigots just want tran-people to go away. icymist Mar 2015 #243

Yep, totally agree. City Lights Mar 2015 #244

Yes. SanchoPanza Mar 2015 #20

PLUS ONE! Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #25

Plenty of cis-gendered women don't look particularly feminine eridani Mar 2015 #32

Well said! RKP5637 Mar 2015 #34

Magnificent post Scootaloo Mar 2015 #35

*mic drop* Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #50

Fantastic! Hong Kong Cavalier Mar 2015 #55

Great response! DawgHouse Mar 2015 #107

Excellent post! City Lights Mar 2015 #128

Where have you been all my life? Jamastiene Mar 2015 #204

Well said. Equality for all. azmom Mar 2015 #222

Well said, thank you for this post. eom uppityperson Mar 2015 #229

Wow, beautifully stated! Spazito Mar 2015 #255

one of the best smackdowns I have ever seen on DU Skittles Mar 2015 #301

It would be nice if we lived in a world where every person pnwmom Mar 2015 #4

I don't see the connection between . . . MrModerate Mar 2015 #6

The story I linked to is why women like the one in the OP worry when pnwmom Mar 2015 #8

And if the woman in question had been born a woman? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #11

Yes, there are. But that's not what the OP was about. pnwmom Mar 2015 #12

No, it is about a woman who thought another woman wasn't "female-looking" enough. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #13

She didn't know the person was female. If a transwoman doesn't transition, pnwmom Mar 2015 #14

Of course she didn't know, therein lies the issue. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #15

How about checkpoints outside the female loos? Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #24

Don't forget TSA's Full Body Scanners! I guess now all will need to be fitted with these, you know, RKP5637 Mar 2015 #36

Very very few trans women use women's locker rooms or bathrooms before transition. This number is so MillennialDem Mar 2015 #26

I can't think of a perfect solution, but I can certainly empathize. The core problem is IMO that RKP5637 Mar 2015 #40

The thing is I'm invisible. I still don't out myself as trans because I "pass" and while MillennialDem Mar 2015 #47

It's all very sad, the intolerance and hatefulness. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #49

This makes a lot of sense. I'm not surprised transwomen try to be considerate. pnwmom Mar 2015 #87

Right, there is still way too much sexual abuse of women - but what I want to know is MillennialDem Mar 2015 #113

I'm thinking individual fully-enclosed toilets with locks. pnwmom Mar 2015 #294

By how much and by what measure will the current policy of the club affect this number? LanternWaste Mar 2015 #293

She found out. SanchoPanza Mar 2015 #27

That was my thought too! It was all explained to her, but yet she persisted. I agree with RKP5637 Mar 2015 #43

She knew by the time they tossed her the fuck out of the club because she kept running her mouth. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2015 #46

She knew once she was told. stone space Mar 2015 #296

She didn't know *at first.* But when she complained, she was informed that tblue37 Mar 2015 #299

I see. Treant Mar 2015 #19

If you were a father and you took your 8 year old to the ladies', and a person who appeared pnwmom Mar 2015 #90

Actually, no it would not. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #157

Right. And it's not because you distrust transwomen. pnwmom Mar 2015 #158

This message was self-deleted by its author underahedgerow Mar 2015 #226

You seem comfortable with your 'daughter in the bathroom with a trans-woman' story. icymist Mar 2015 #256

No, absolutely not. I'm concerned about straight men and pedophiles pnwmom Mar 2015 #300

The connection is obvious... Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #9

You and me usually fall on the same side of these issues... DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #115

You can do the same in this gym. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #122

Thank you. Matariki Mar 2015 #148

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #153

Yep. Matariki Mar 2015 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #125

What did I say that gave you the impression I was a hater? pnwmom Mar 2015 #168

So you are just a pre-op hater. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #170

So you think all straight men are actually pre-op transwomen? pnwmom Mar 2015 #173

No, but, as you said, you can't tell the difference, so I'm assuming you are advocating for... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #174

You're assuming wrong. If you read my posts here, I did not advocate that. pnwmom Mar 2015 #175

But why bring it up in threads that have nothing to do with it? Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #176

This woman was probably concerned about the issue of safety, and that's a real issue, pnwmom Mar 2015 #177

And the safety of the transwoman? Should that be a consideration? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #178

No, see, they should be segregated, for thier protection, of course! n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #180

Apparently so. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #183

Eh, woke up from going to bed really early, just laying in bed tapping on my phone... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #185

I have been explicitly including transwomen in the overall group of women, so yes. pnwmom Mar 2015 #186

What the hell do straight men have to do with this? Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #189

Individual bathrooms everywhere may be impractical.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #195

Thats an assumption on your part, and its offtopic. Indeed if it were an issue.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #179

WTF does that even mean, "hasn't physically transitioned"? Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #199

Taking hormones means that the transwoman is physically transitioning, pnwmom Mar 2015 #250

Not all transwomen can afford - Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #270

Unfortunately, straight men sometimes do enter ladies' rooms pnwmom Mar 2015 #274

We're not talking about straight men. Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #276

But taking hormones is not required to be trans. uppityperson Mar 2015 #271

Not you, the woman who reported her./NT DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2015 #211

"Protect the rights of the minority while respecting the wishes of the majority"? Really? Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #289

(Robot mode) This person in this story was not a man... Oneironaut Mar 2015 #63

Yes, in this particular story. But the woman didn't know that pnwmom Mar 2015 #200

What are we supposed to do? Strip search and do a genital check of Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #206

What are we supposed to do? Let any straight male thug walk into the ladies pnwmom Mar 2015 #224

You seem to miss that she is saying "straight" men, so we'd need some sort of sexual orientation uppityperson Mar 2015 #235

I wouldn't know, but the whole notion is ridiculous because it's not an issue in the first place. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #219

You're right. Straight men don't disguise themselves as women pnwmom Mar 2015 #225

We're talking about two different things. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #227

You've posted hundreds of times on this topic, are you a lawyer? CreekDog Mar 2015 #290

The woman didn't start the campaign of harrassment until... stone space Mar 2015 #297

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #81

Still concern trolling I see, at least you didn't link to a TERF website again. Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #167

You missed words there. "what is a solution that will keep all women safe, INCLUDING transgender uppityperson Mar 2015 #231

The rapists were not identifying as women. Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #268

Good for Planet Fitness. HappyMe Mar 2015 #37

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #38

Just because someone has a penis you cannot assume they are a man. AngryAmish Mar 2015 #41

There is no need to assume a fact. Psychology is not biology. WinkyDink Mar 2015 #58

Then thank goodness in this case the person the woman was freaking out about Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #52

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #53

Anything between the transgendered woman HappyMe Mar 2015 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #66

As I said, what happens between the doctor HappyMe Mar 2015 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #78

As far as doctor/patient confidentiality - yes HappyMe Mar 2015 #80

What solution to this problem do you propose? I look like a woman. I would get harassed MillennialDem Mar 2015 #135

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #140

Do you think MillennialDem Mar 2015 #146

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #152

I say you go to the women's room because you are a woman, period! leftofcool Mar 2015 #154

Poster 48 here... MillennialDem Mar 2015 #134

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #137

The person she was complaining about was not a man. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #64

If someone 'claims' they are a transgender woman, then they probably are. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #70

It stops being about her safety when she made it her mission to Oneironaut Mar 2015 #79

I'm a feminist and women's safety is azmom Mar 2015 #253

I saw nothing in the article HappyMe Mar 2015 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #71

Sure it does. HappyMe Mar 2015 #72

I may have missed it because your post is quite long Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #74

Several of the people you are getting "pushback" from are women. Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #83

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #84

Your opinion is quite familiar, since it is the basis of right-wing framing for laws against TG Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #97

Assuming trans people are likely to be sexually violent is RW. Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #103

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #108

Well, I'm taking your argument to its logical conclusion Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #110

I'm not shutting anything down. Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #119

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #124

Thanks, I appreciate that. Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #130

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #132

... Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #145

Thanks you. Ms. Toad Mar 2015 #269

I appreciate the edit Cal Carpenter Mar 2015 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #105

Men are perhaps a greater danger to transgender people of either sex. hunter Mar 2015 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #82

Yes, she SAYS she understands LGBT issues... Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #93

Would you hold the same consideration for a white woman who won't ride... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #182

Why should she have to provide any "proof?" hunter Mar 2015 #98

In all fairness to the trans woman she was probably attempting to pass as female MillennialDem Mar 2015 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #141

Again, thank you for your thoughtful post. Matariki Mar 2015 #151

Good job, Pooka Fey Demeter Mar 2015 #208

This message was self-deleted by its author Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #210

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #212

I have a question, do you still think the trangender who have SRS "deform their minds and bodies"? Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #213

I have a family member of unstable mind Demeter Mar 2015 #216

Ah, so now it comes out, transgenderism is a fad. Nice to actually encounter a bona fide TERF on DU. Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #217

Being transgender is a "fad"? W. T. F. uppityperson Mar 2015 #261

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #283

I gave some thought to how I would react spinbaby Mar 2015 #39

Planet Fitness has private changing/shower areas. gollygee Mar 2015 #45

She should go back to her home Planet Bigot if she doesn't wanna get with the times. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2015 #42

Problem solved! nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #51

She was given the opportunity to find another gym more to her liking. lpbk2713 Mar 2015 #54

I'm a 65-yr-old woman, and I wouldn't care to see a bio-man WinkyDink Mar 2015 #56

I think we know who you are. nt Logical Mar 2015 #61

What locker room and rest room should transgender women use? gollygee Mar 2015 #69

I assume she does not want them in the building at all, or maybe even out in public. nt Logical Mar 2015 #86

If people did have to change clothes in front of each other do you see a potential problem? Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #106

Why do you assume transgender people are that indiscreet? gollygee Mar 2015 #144

No, I don't. City Lights Mar 2015 #267

It's not us who are ignorant. nt. Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #92

If you don't want people to think you are a bigot, City Lights Mar 2015 #129

If she's just minding her own business, you should mind yours. backscatter712 Mar 2015 #142

I didn't know being a 65 year old woman exempted you from.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #169

What an idiot. I bet she's a bigot on a mission who hated transpeople before she Oneironaut Mar 2015 #57

That's what I think, she was looking to turn it into a situation. I agree with you! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #159

So can any dude claim to "identify as a woman" and get to use the women's locker room? Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #75

To pretty much the same level of abuse as a sign and a door TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #88

exactly n/t fishwax Mar 2015 #240

LOL, yes, any man can do that. Jesus, questions like that is what cause this issue. I guess...... Logical Mar 2015 #89

in TX you have to have a tag an you car.... uponit7771 Mar 2015 #111

Nice! Surprised gay people do not need one. nt Logical Mar 2015 #120

They used to Revanchist Mar 2015 #126

Being gay and transgendered are two entirely different things. KittyWampus Mar 2015 #218

Well, usually companies that actually deal with trans-gendered customers require a doctor's note. haele Mar 2015 #94

It's not just "hot chicks" who might be made uncomfortable by naked people who they perceive as men Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #104

To insure "comfort", do we then put the onus on the club to insure no manly-looking women haele Mar 2015 #114

Ah, yes, someone forgot to tell me that trans-women were sexual predators... backscatter712 Mar 2015 #143

Yup. Once again, this is a non-issue. Oneironaut Mar 2015 #112

+ 100! nt Logical Mar 2015 #121

Yes. LisaL Mar 2015 #251

Florida is about to pass a bill related to this madville Mar 2015 #77

That seems to be the solution that makes sense. Matariki Mar 2015 #155

So often I wish there was no such thing as gender. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #160

That totally *isn't* the solution that makes the most sense, actually. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #163

excellent post, thank you! nt steve2470 Mar 2015 #187

K&R demmiblue Mar 2015 #100

I think we've found a new Fox News correspondent! Initech Mar 2015 #102

Cue the DU anti-trans brigade in 3...2... Jamastiene Mar 2015 #117

And a few have already posted here davidn3600 Mar 2015 #133

Yep, people come with pre-bigoted notions totally not understanding WTF RKP5637 Mar 2015 #161

You can always rely on a few to show up, regulars too, why they aren't... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #171

Way to go, Planet Fitness! City Lights Mar 2015 #127

I both love and hate these threads. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #131

I'm always stunned by some of the comments on a supposedly liberal progressive site. There RKP5637 Mar 2015 #162

these threads confirm my thinking that... steve2470 Mar 2015 #181

I think there are a few who can be educated. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #184

yes these threads are very educational steve2470 Mar 2015 #188

I agree. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #192

I'm a cisgender straight male, as far as adjectives go, and there is a learning curve... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #190

Learning curves are to be expected. Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #196

I think its the open to learning part, I approached it with curiousity rather than... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #198

No, what you're seeing, actually... Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #201

another good post, thank you! nt steve2470 Mar 2015 #202

This would be a great OP. Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #214

I've pretty much reached that same conclusion. It's ripe for intrusion by those seeking RKP5637 Mar 2015 #209

I have no idea why Skinner puts up with them. backscatter712 Mar 2015 #232

Did you alert on the posts that offended you? Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #237

Look closer. There are hidden posts in this thread. nt City Lights Mar 2015 #241

Whoops, indeed there are. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #245

Here's one: backscatter712 Mar 2015 #242

Thanks (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #246

Kick and R. BeanMusical Mar 2015 #165

First off, good on Planet Fitness, second off, fuck transphobes... Humanist_Activist Mar 2015 #166

Well said! City Lights Mar 2015 #215

+1000000000 azmom Mar 2015 #223

+1 bravenak Mar 2015 #277

On the bright side, threads like this make it easy to update my ignore list. n/t backscatter712 Mar 2015 #286

Good for Planet Fitness LadyHawkAZ Mar 2015 #191

I have missed you! Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #193

. LadyHawkAZ Mar 2015 #194

I am always around with two ears... Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #197

This thread has exposed some real ugliness on DU LittleBlue Mar 2015 #248

As well as the same old sexism and male priviledge that women are treated to. Matariki Mar 2015 #252

Respect for trans people shouldn't be contingent on anything LittleBlue Mar 2015 #258

That is an absurd comparison. Respect for women means not marginalizing their voices. Matariki Mar 2015 #259

Trans women are not men LittleBlue Mar 2015 #262

And I didn't say they were. Matariki Mar 2015 #264

Actually it turns out that 'Carlotta Sklodowska' identifies as male on her facebook page Matariki Mar 2015 #298

The woman in this case is a bigot and here's why... Violet_Crumble Mar 2015 #273

Bullshit. We're not threatened by trans women. LeftyMom Mar 2015 #278

That's a pretty arrogant use of the word 'we'. Matariki Mar 2015 #279

Just the ones who aren't bigots, apparently Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #280

Are people fucking deaf to anything but their own opinions. Matariki Mar 2015 #281

Apparently you are? Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #284

If you don't want to be called a bigot, stop saying bigoted things. backscatter712 Mar 2015 #285

So what, some provisional, quasi-woman status? LeftyMom Mar 2015 #288

Oddly enough I was thinking that about your posts. LeftyMom Mar 2015 #287

Thank you. I was just thinking the same thing. azmom Mar 2015 #254

In reality, may as well make it anything goes as far as lockeroom use if you have to let anyone brewens Mar 2015 #263

What a thread this was to read. Wish I could say I was surprised by some of the posts but I can't. Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #272

FUCK TRANSPHOBIA PERIOD! ~NT~ b.durruti Mar 2015 #275

AWESOME! K&R all over the place! marym625 Mar 2015 #282

If nothing else, these threads do tend to clue me in on intolerant DUers. This one certainly did... LanternWaste Mar 2015 #292