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In reply to the discussion: Guardian exposes Russian "troll center" where paid trolls spew Putin web propaganda. [View all]BainsBane
(57,775 posts)128. Yet they always ignore this
Russian Newspaper publishes Kremlin strategy paper on plans to annex the Ukraine
Drawn up before the fall of the government in Kiev.
First the link to the original publication in Russian: http://www.novayagazeta.ru/politics/67389.html
Translation of the article and document as published on a Ukranian website:
"Novaya Gazeta" is publishing Russias plan for the annexation of a number of territories of Ukraine, which were drawn up when Yanukovych was still president of this country.
The document that has come into the possession of Novaya was presumably brought in to the Presidential Administration in the period between February 4 and February 12, 2014.
The document that has come into the possession of Novaya was presumably brought in to the Presidential Administration in the period between February 4 and February 12, 2014.
Now excerpts from the document:
2. Russias policy toward Ukraine must finally become pragmatic.
First, the regime of Viktor Yanukovych has gone totally bankrupt. Its political, diplomatic, financial, and information support from the Russian Federation is no longer meaningful.
Second, as a sporadic civil war in the form of urban guerrilla of the so-called supporters of the Maidan against the leadership of a number of the countrys eastern regions has become a fact, while the disintegration of the Ukrainian state along the line of geographical demarcation of regional alliances - western regions plus Kyiv and eastern regions plus Crimea - has become part of the political agenda, in these circumstances, Russia should in no way limit its policy toward Ukraine only to attempts to influence the political situation in Kyiv and the relationship of a systemic opposition (A. Yatsenyuk, V. Klitschko, O. Tyagnybok, P . Poroshenko, etc.) with the European Commission.
Third, in an almost complete paralysis of the central government, unable to form a responsible government even facing threats of default and of Naftogaz lacking funds to pay for Russian gas, Russia is simply obliged to get involved in the geopolitical intrigue of the European Community directed against the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
First of all, this is because otherwise our country risks losing not only the Ukrainian energy market, but also indirect control over Ukraines gas transportation system, which is much more dangerous. This will endanger the position of Gazprom in Central and Southern Europe, causing huge damage to our countrys economy.
3. The Constitution of Ukraine is in no case able to provide for a mechanism that could legitimately initiate the integration of Ukraines eastern territories and Crimea into the state-legal framework of the Russian Federation.
. . .
Current events in Kyiv convincingly show that the Yanukovychs time in power could end at any moment. Thus, there is less and less time for an appropriate Russian response. The number of dead in riots in the capital of Ukraine is direct evidence of the inevitability of civil war and the impossibility of reaching consensus if Yanukovych remains president. In these circumstances, it seems appropriate to play along the centrifugal aspirations of the various regions of the country, with a view to initiate the accession of its eastern regions to Russia, in one form or another. Crimea and Kharkiv region should become the dominant regions for making such efforts, as there already exist reasonably large groups there that support the idea of maximum integration with Russia.
4. Of course, taking the burden of supporting Crimea and several eastern territories, Russia will be forced to take on budget expenses, which would be cumbersome in the countrys present position.
Undoubtedly, this will affect macroeconomic stability and the prospects for economic growth. However, geopolitically, the prize will be invaluable: our country will gain access to new demographic resources, highly qualified industry and transport personnel will be at its disposal. In addition, it can count on the emergence of new eastward Slavic migration flows - as opposed to the Central Asian migration trends. The industrial potential of the Eastern Ukraine, including the military-industrial sector, once included in the Russian military-industrial complex, will allow for the faster and more successful implementation of the program of rearmament of Russias military forces.
What is equally important, Russias constructive, smoothing participation in the highly probable disintegration of the Ukrainian state will not only give new impetus to the Kremlins integration project, but will also allow our country to retain control over Ukraines gas transportation system, as mentioned above. And at the same time, it will allow there to be significant changes in the geopolitical situation in Central and Eastern Europe, allowing Russia to regain its major role there.
5. To start the process of a pro-Russian drift of Crimea and eastern Ukrainian territories, events should be created beforehand that can support this process with political legitimacy and moral justification; also a PR-strategy should be built that draws attention to the forced, reactive nature of the actions of Russia and the pro-Russian political elites of southern and eastern Ukraine.
First, the regime of Viktor Yanukovych has gone totally bankrupt. Its political, diplomatic, financial, and information support from the Russian Federation is no longer meaningful.
Second, as a sporadic civil war in the form of urban guerrilla of the so-called supporters of the Maidan against the leadership of a number of the countrys eastern regions has become a fact, while the disintegration of the Ukrainian state along the line of geographical demarcation of regional alliances - western regions plus Kyiv and eastern regions plus Crimea - has become part of the political agenda, in these circumstances, Russia should in no way limit its policy toward Ukraine only to attempts to influence the political situation in Kyiv and the relationship of a systemic opposition (A. Yatsenyuk, V. Klitschko, O. Tyagnybok, P . Poroshenko, etc.) with the European Commission.
Third, in an almost complete paralysis of the central government, unable to form a responsible government even facing threats of default and of Naftogaz lacking funds to pay for Russian gas, Russia is simply obliged to get involved in the geopolitical intrigue of the European Community directed against the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
First of all, this is because otherwise our country risks losing not only the Ukrainian energy market, but also indirect control over Ukraines gas transportation system, which is much more dangerous. This will endanger the position of Gazprom in Central and Southern Europe, causing huge damage to our countrys economy.
3. The Constitution of Ukraine is in no case able to provide for a mechanism that could legitimately initiate the integration of Ukraines eastern territories and Crimea into the state-legal framework of the Russian Federation.
. . .
Current events in Kyiv convincingly show that the Yanukovychs time in power could end at any moment. Thus, there is less and less time for an appropriate Russian response. The number of dead in riots in the capital of Ukraine is direct evidence of the inevitability of civil war and the impossibility of reaching consensus if Yanukovych remains president. In these circumstances, it seems appropriate to play along the centrifugal aspirations of the various regions of the country, with a view to initiate the accession of its eastern regions to Russia, in one form or another. Crimea and Kharkiv region should become the dominant regions for making such efforts, as there already exist reasonably large groups there that support the idea of maximum integration with Russia.
4. Of course, taking the burden of supporting Crimea and several eastern territories, Russia will be forced to take on budget expenses, which would be cumbersome in the countrys present position.
Undoubtedly, this will affect macroeconomic stability and the prospects for economic growth. However, geopolitically, the prize will be invaluable: our country will gain access to new demographic resources, highly qualified industry and transport personnel will be at its disposal. In addition, it can count on the emergence of new eastward Slavic migration flows - as opposed to the Central Asian migration trends. The industrial potential of the Eastern Ukraine, including the military-industrial sector, once included in the Russian military-industrial complex, will allow for the faster and more successful implementation of the program of rearmament of Russias military forces.
What is equally important, Russias constructive, smoothing participation in the highly probable disintegration of the Ukrainian state will not only give new impetus to the Kremlins integration project, but will also allow our country to retain control over Ukraines gas transportation system, as mentioned above. And at the same time, it will allow there to be significant changes in the geopolitical situation in Central and Eastern Europe, allowing Russia to regain its major role there.
5. To start the process of a pro-Russian drift of Crimea and eastern Ukrainian territories, events should be created beforehand that can support this process with political legitimacy and moral justification; also a PR-strategy should be built that draws attention to the forced, reactive nature of the actions of Russia and the pro-Russian political elites of southern and eastern Ukraine.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1048525-novaya-gazetas-kremlin-papers-article-full-text-in-english.html
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Guardian exposes Russian "troll center" where paid trolls spew Putin web propaganda. [View all]
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
OP
Disturbing stuff. Putinistas seriously are descending into Nazi pathology.
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#61
They're not late to the game at all. They were doing it on a grand scale
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#90
This specific sub-thread is about the ideology behind their military aggression in Ukraine.
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#98
why would you think they need to take notes from putin? it's laughable. all these
ND-Dem
Apr 2015
#114
We definitely still have a few around. Perhaps we should be flattered at the attention.
Hekate
Apr 2015
#15
It's never flattering to be pissed on, no matter who's doing the pissing.
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#18
Why? Is the Kremlin operating a "Colmes squad" to Straw Man their opposition?
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#65
How nice we have an example of what your OP is reporting .. right on this very thread.
Cha
Apr 2015
#67
The depth of corruption of our own nation is revealed by its incessant propaganda aimed at Americans
woo me with science
Apr 2015
#21
So you're literally going to do what was just described as the Kremlin troll playbook:
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#24
He's a propaganda minister aiming lies at the people our govt. is supposed to be representing.
woo me with science
Apr 2015
#70
I'm not the one citing radical right-wing sources to derail a conversation about Kremlin trolling
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#37
LOL.. you got Alerted on by someone who was offended by "Russian Trolls"! 7-0 LEAVE!
Cha
Apr 2015
#104
You are seriously desperate to not talk about Kremlin trolling, aren't you?
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#31
I assume breaking windows is much harder if one works in a concrete basement.
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#45
See, now you're actually putting in some credible effort. This is how to do it.
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#50
+1. LOL, they'll all be hitting alert now. Be careful, jury notices will be flying
FSogol
Apr 2015
#59
No one should be hidden for calling that murdering Nazi fuckwad what he is.
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#93
I know.. the little putinistas' sensibilities were mightily offended. Must be punished.
Cha
Apr 2015
#94
Bringing their sickly byzantine political lifestyle onto an American liberal website...
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#96
And apparently the entire Western media is in on the "wild conspiracy theory."
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#123
Apparently, yes...seems everyone who does not agree 100% with the poster is a troll...what does that say about the poster?
Fred Sanders
Apr 2015
#99
Yeah, someone obviously didn't attend the briefing about the vagaries of American internet politics.
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#52
Oh does the OP offend your sensibilities.. you have to try and distract with INFO WARS!
Cha
Apr 2015
#107
True if you have created a new meaning for "analogous". Fox the same as RT...NOT!
Fred Sanders
Apr 2015
#79
Fox has no influence outside their hard core viewers, you opine? Sorry, end of discussion for me with you.
Fred Sanders
Apr 2015
#83
Truthfully your wall to wall insults are destroying your entire OP credibility....I got no problem with Internet insults.
Fred Sanders
Apr 2015
#92
Yes, fox "news" is for the neocons/kochroaches/teabaggers, et cetera. RT is for the Russian
Cha
Apr 2015
#106
Yes, fox "news" is for the neocons/kochroaches/teabaggers, et cetera. RT is for the Russian
Cha
Apr 2015
#103
If it's Godwin's Law to equate a murderous tyrant who invades other countries
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#121
"..with remarks praising the president, Vladimir Putin, and raging at the depravity and injustice
Cha
Apr 2015
#63
I want to know when we can finally ban these rodents, from this website at least?
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#89
The longer we allow this to go on, the more of them will become "long-term members"
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#122
Sometimes it's very hard not to wonder if this site's title is some kind of joke.
True Blue Door
Apr 2015
#125