General Discussion

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)

119. Just as I thought, pressed for something to back up an assertion, you don't have it...

Sun May 17, 2015, 04:08 PM

May 2015

If Hillary were truly coming out and pushing against the TPP the way Elizabeth Warren has that has had even president Obama publicly criticize her, the media would be all over it. She HAS NOT come out against Fast Track and TPP.

Having miscellaneous comments about her having reservations about ISDS provisions is about the only thing I've heard. If she really is against the ISDS, and wants to fight to get it out of the TPP, then she should be fighting AGAINST Fast Track that would have the whole TPP shut down in order to get rid of ISDS if that bill is passed. If she sees any value to the TPP, but is truly against ISDS provisions, she should want to shut down Fast Track, or if she is against all of the TPP, then she should also want to shut down Fast Track. If she doesn't want to support what Republicans in lock step have wanted in the Senate, she should also be against Fast Track.

Oh, something we don't know about where perhaps ISDS is being removed from the TPP as her only objection to it so that she can support Fast Track secretly the way this treaty is being negotiated has her justified in not saying anything?

For me, and so many other Americans, having a public process where we know where critical laws are being negotiated and what is being negotiated with whom, so that we can advise our "representatives" is a key part of a democratic system. Politicians that don't understand this in my book don't believe in democracy, and DO NOT DESERVE OUR VOTE!

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Not since LBJ [View all] MaggieD May 2015 OP

oh bullshit and hypocritical bullshit at that. At least I don't pretend to like HRC cali May 2015 #1

People can like both Sanders and Hillary treestar May 2015 #4

I like Sanders just fine MaggieD May 2015 #6

lol. a large body of your posts commenting on him, give lie to that claim cali May 2015 #12

So you don't share Bernie's values.... MaggieD May 2015 #15

I have no problem criticizing any candidate- and that includes Bernie cali May 2015 #21

So you don't think Bernie can win either MaggieD May 2015 #23

aha! nope. hopemountain May 2015 #87

Sure I can MaggieD May 2015 #90

but there is no truth to it. nt. hopemountain May 2015 #95

Of course there is.... MaggieD May 2015 #97

that's why he is running, correct? hopemountain May 2015 #99

Nah - he is running to impact MaggieD May 2015 #101

that is an illusion. nt hopemountain May 2015 #126

Your like a deaf single celled amoeba . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #149

+ 1000 !!! orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #138

lol AgingAmerican May 2015 #46

History shows tearing down the front runner helps elect Republicans? A Simple Game May 2015 #63

I recall a lot of Clintonites at that time yelling that he was unelectable... Chan790 May 2015 #217

What's funny is that I know of at least one poster that was A Simple Game May 2015 #245

I know several who said the most awful things about her and are Autumn May 2015 #296

Not "electable" by whom? fredamae May 2015 #77

As a Bernie supporter who knows that not only can Bernie win, he is already sabrina 1 May 2015 #92

Dreamers gotta dream MaggieD May 2015 #96

*yawn* sabrina 1 May 2015 #117

It a tough call Cassidy1 May 2015 #224

Biden isn't even talking about Biden frylock May 2015 #300

No, he won't Cassidy1 May 2015 #304

if Hillary is tough enough to beat the GOP DonCoquixote May 2015 #228

Pile of what, cali? fadedrose May 2015 #75

..."until Chappaquiddick"? Nice try, but that happened in 1969, and Carter didn't run for President Tanuki May 2015 #78

Chappaquiddick was in the mix in that election... fadedrose May 2015 #109

Wot? Why would Kennedy(?) "change his mind" about running against Carter(?) in '84? truebluegreen May 2015 #136

Carter ran in '80 fadedrose May 2015 #166

Your timeline is off. truebluegreen May 2015 #185

Gerald Ford was in the House, not Senate, when he was tapped to replace Agnew as VP. (eom) StevieM May 2015 #191

Wow, nice post---not. Precisely the kind of thing Senator Sanders would NOT endorse. MADem May 2015 #162

I guess you're just better than me fadedrose May 2015 #172

My post was not directed at you. MADem May 2015 #174

I have to start wearing my damned glasses fadedrose May 2015 #190

No worries. I had no problem with anything you had to say in this thread. MADem May 2015 #195

Well, I'm sure noticing more posts on DU MineralMan May 2015 #2

Democrats as well as Republicans eat their own. leftofcool May 2015 #3

Not sure about Republicans treestar May 2015 #7

That's what Jamaal510 May 2015 #299

I see it as a battle for the soul of the party: truebluegreen May 2015 #139

Interesting about the comments about the victories obtained treestar May 2015 #5

Maybe that's it MaggieD May 2015 #8

or it could be hfojvt May 2015 #50

Actually history doesn't bear that out MaggieD May 2015 #65

the country didn't do better with the Vietnam war hfojvt May 2015 #74

LBJ was undone by the war he inherited. LBJ was so much more than that fiasco... Hekate May 2015 #79

Hey, I like LBJ hfojvt May 2015 #93

LBJ was undone by the war he escalated dflprincess May 2015 #230

Did the country do better under Nixon? MaggieD May 2015 #86

well, way back in 1968 when Nixon took office hfojvt May 2015 #112

So you're pro Nixon MaggieD May 2015 #114

I see the point you are making but I think the important thing to remember is that Ronald Reagan StevieM May 2015 #202

I would say there is "very little difference" hfojvt May 2015 #241

How does Republicans winning really help? treestar May 2015 #211

who said it does? hfojvt May 2015 #240

So HHH as President would have been no different? treestar May 2015 #244

+1. :) Chan790 May 2015 #218

Pardon me for a moment Sherman A1 May 2015 #9

Sure, but that's not what they are doing MaggieD May 2015 #11

you mean like you've smeared Bernie by suggesting over and over again that cali May 2015 #14

I think he should change that (I) to a (D) MaggieD May 2015 #18

I'm referring to your insisting repeatedly that you're "concerned" that he might run cali May 2015 #22

I don't trust any politician MaggieD May 2015 #24

funny, you've had fits over people saying they don't trust HRC cali May 2015 #27

Meaningful how? MaggieD May 2015 #29

You are entitled to your opinion Sherman A1 May 2015 #55

I've seen plenty of attempts to smear Bernie. cui bono May 2015 #173

Say something good about Clinton for a change; it might make you SEEM believable. cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #10

I have said good things about all the candidates MaggieD May 2015 #13

You'll even, huh? Yeah. cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #25

Yep - sure will MaggieD May 2015 #26

We "live in a two party system..." really? cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #30

They may as well be MaggieD May 2015 #32

How's that shovel workin'? Let me know if it wears out; I'll get a rope and lower you down another. cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #34

Don't need a shovel MaggieD May 2015 #40

Hmmm more yammering nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #165

In other words.... MaggieD May 2015 #264

Actually Maggie your post has so many historic mistakes nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #270

Still can't think of one? MaggieD May 2015 #273

I can think of plenty, but you are down right adorable nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #276

Well list them then.... MaggieD May 2015 #278

More comedy with your "demands." nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #279

Can't think of any, huh? MaggieD May 2015 #280

You are adorable nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #281

Let me know if you think of any... MaggieD May 2015 #282

Even MORE DEMANDS nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #283

So you can't think of any? MaggieD May 2015 #286

What you are doing is shit stirring nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #287

STILL can't think of one? MaggieD May 2015 #288

You are adorable nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #289

Your deflections prove my point MaggieD May 2015 #290

Even more adorable and now with personal attacks nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #291

I guess you think that "adorable" schtick.... MaggieD May 2015 #292

Other than plurality control with Working Families of the Hartford City Council? Chan790 May 2015 #219

I like Sawant .... MaggieD May 2015 #266

I don't think I've said anything negative about Hillary. I just prefer Bernie. Vinca May 2015 #16

Then this post is not about you! MaggieD May 2015 #20

I don't think it's about many here. Vinca May 2015 #85

Yep. nt cyberswede May 2015 #284

Yup nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #285

LBJ Lied the USA into Vietnam Octafish May 2015 #17

He also brought you the "great society" MaggieD May 2015 #19

Actually, organized labor brought all reforms leftstreet May 2015 #187

I think LBJ deserves enormous credit for driving through all those reforms. (eom) StevieM May 2015 #192

LOL! MaggieD May 2015 #200

It amazes me how people forget all that we accomplished in the 60s when up against a whole lot of StevieM May 2015 #212

Hey Oc... I guess lying the country into a war that caused the deaths of over 58,000 Americans cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #28

We were already at war MaggieD May 2015 #31

You might want to look at a timeline including his Gulf of Tonkin lie and the escalation afterward. cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #33

So you agree.... MaggieD May 2015 #37

Nnnnnnnope. There was NEVER a declared war in Southeast Asia. cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #42

So what? MaggieD May 2015 #45

Declared or not, we seem to be at war in lotsa places. truebluegreen May 2015 #144

LBJ was a sitting president; a sitting president is always the presumptive nominee. Spider Jerusalem May 2015 #35

So what? MaggieD May 2015 #36

Did those SAME stats make her president in 2008? cascadiance May 2015 #39

Bernie is not your new Obama MaggieD May 2015 #41

Yep! Bernie IS better. And therefore I think MORE Americans could gravitate to him! cascadiance May 2015 #52

Ah, Puretopia! MaggieD May 2015 #54

It is not historically correct to say that Hillary had the same lead in 2008 that she has today. StevieM May 2015 #194

That she had a large lead that people felt she was already the "nominee" then, cascadiance May 2015 #196

Obama was a pretty big star from the beginning and for better or worse there is no one in the same StevieM May 2015 #198

That's your opinion that he's a bigger "star" than Bernie... cascadiance May 2015 #199

I respect your feelings regarding Sen. Sanders. I like Sanders and Elizabeth Warren just fine. StevieM May 2015 #205

How old is Bernie? Major Hogwash May 2015 #242

Nobody has the right to expect the nomination on a platter, not even an incumbent president. StevieM May 2015 #197

Liberals support Hillary Renew Deal May 2015 #38

"...the far left..." truebluegreen May 2015 #147

2000 and 2004 Nader voters, Green Party voters in presidential races, people that look to Venezuala Renew Deal May 2015 #250

Define far left. LeftOfWest May 2015 #243

See above Renew Deal May 2015 #251

Please point us to all the OP's laying out why Hillary is the best representative for the people. woo me with science May 2015 #43

She's the best candidate so far... MaggieD May 2015 #49

I'm sure many were saying the same about her about this time before 2008 election... cascadiance May 2015 #57

Again, she would have been better.... MaggieD May 2015 #58

If she wants to "gut punch" Republicans then DEMONSTRATE it now with McTurtle on the TPP! cascadiance May 2015 #69

Why? MaggieD May 2015 #80

Why? Because she's a fool if she thinks I and many others will support her... cascadiance May 2015 #83

She has said plenty about it MaggieD May 2015 #89

Why don't you provide us a link then that shows how Hillary says she's against passing Fast Track... cascadiance May 2015 #104

Its been posted before MaggieD May 2015 #113

Just as I thought, pressed for something to back up an assertion, you don't have it... cascadiance May 2015 #119

Well you could just inform yourself MaggieD May 2015 #122

I AM informing myself, which is why I ask YOU to show that you are informing yourself... cascadiance May 2015 #134

Actually you're not MaggieD May 2015 #135

You can say "Warren agrees with HRC".. cascadiance May 2015 #140

Google it MaggieD May 2015 #143

Sorry I'm not wasting my time doing YOUR job advocating YOUR position... cascadiance May 2015 #154

Glad you googled it MaggieD May 2015 #253

Thanks for proving my point... cascadiance May 2015 #254

Let me guess MaggieD May 2015 #255

NO, you did not qualify your statements properly that you were talking about ISDS, NOT TPP... cascadiance May 2015 #260

That's because you are wrong AgingAmerican May 2015 #227

About what? Please be specific MaggieD May 2015 #256

But can you for once back up a claim you make? cui bono May 2015 #235

What claim is that? MaggieD May 2015 #252

You have already disproven your own OP AgingAmerican May 2015 #262

How so? MaggieD May 2015 #263

By admitting that it was worse for Hillary in the 08 primaries AgingAmerican May 2015 #265

Huh? MaggieD May 2015 #267

Yeah, huh.... AgingAmerican May 2015 #269

Digging what? MaggieD May 2015 #274

Links? Clinton helped craft the TPP. I find it hard to believe they are in agreement about it. cui bono May 2015 #233

She didn't write the TPP MaggieD May 2015 #257

I guess Obama would send her to talk to other countries as SOS and not know anything about it? cascadiance May 2015 #261

She can't say she doesn't support the TPP Aerows May 2015 #225

I would love to see your post if you would be so kind as to provide a link. cui bono May 2015 #236

Out of her own mouth in an interview! Aerows May 2015 #237

Thanks for that! cui bono May 2015 #238

Facts are out of style here MaggieD May 2015 #258

I posted an interview Aerows May 2015 #259

At least you are qualifying her being the best candidate so far. Bernie is the absolute best cui bono May 2015 #232

^THIS^ n/t cherokeeprogressive May 2015 #64

+ a billion BrotherIvan May 2015 #73

+1 leftstreet May 2015 #215

Apparently you weren't around in 2007? AgingAmerican May 2015 #44

I was around.... MaggieD May 2015 #47

That was a lame reply AgingAmerican May 2015 #60

It is a realistic reply MaggieD May 2015 #62

You contradicted your own OP AgingAmerican May 2015 #66

I was one of those who tried to bring down LBJ. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #48

Well thanks for Nixon then! MaggieD May 2015 #51

Thank LBJ and Humphrey for Nixon. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #53

You helped elect Nixon MaggieD May 2015 #56

No, I didn't. I voted against Nixon and the war. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #59

How did that work out? MaggieD May 2015 #61

Did you vote for Humphrey or Nixon? How did that work out? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #70

I was 9 so they wouldn't let me vote MaggieD May 2015 #81

How did we do that? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2015 #82

Did you lose the thread? MaggieD May 2015 #84

So you were for the Vietnam war? AgingAmerican May 2015 #229

LOL deutsey May 2015 #268

And if he were more willing to help America know the truth about Nixon at that time... cascadiance May 2015 #100

LOL! MaggieD May 2015 #107

If you want to thank anybody for Nixon, truebluegreen May 2015 #150

LBJ knew Nixon committed treason by sabotaging the peace talks Mnpaul May 2015 #186

Sorry. LWolf May 2015 #67

" I'm sorry if you think that her record 'tears her down.' " woo me with science May 2015 #68

Yep. nt LWolf May 2015 #72

Oh god - not those right wing... MaggieD May 2015 #98

Associations with Wall St are RW talking points? Mnpaul May 2015 #184

Why are you an anti-democratic authoritarian? If Hillary can't stand the heat, she KingCharlemagne May 2015 #71

I'm sure HRC can handle it just fine MaggieD May 2015 #94

I get it... Let's just keep everything secret and say we should all vote for someone, just cascadiance May 2015 #108

So you don't agree with Bernie then? MaggieD May 2015 #111

I'm taking issue with what people are calling "attacking" her... cascadiance May 2015 #152

Oh come on. The exact same dynamic played itself out in 2008 and Obama went KingCharlemagne May 2015 #142

Bernie is no Obama MaggieD May 2015 #145

Hillary is the equivalent of Henry Kissinger. That's why she's KingCharlemagne May 2015 #146

I don't think liberals are working hard to bring down any DEM candidate bigwillq May 2015 #76

Nah - it's also the far left media too MaggieD May 2015 #91

I've heard reports of a far left media, but they are as mythical as Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #105

Well if you're not aware of.... MaggieD May 2015 #110

Most of those are center to middle left at best. Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #181

She uses 'far left' to mean anyone to the left of Hillary. By that standard, Barbara Boxer is KingCharlemagne May 2015 #155

Yes, I recognized that by her list of sources. Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #183

Well by all means... MaggieD May 2015 #207

Sounds like a RW talking point Mnpaul May 2015 #188

well, if it walks like a duck.... frylock May 2015 #302

the far left media?! frylock May 2015 #301

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2015 #88

You forgot Carter who was undone more by Kennedy and the lefts Agnosticsherbet May 2015 #102

Okay add in Carter MaggieD May 2015 #118

3 recommendations out of 980 views. Enthusiast May 2015 #103

This is where the far left hangs out MaggieD May 2015 #115

Most who agree with OP have left DU temporarily until Clinton hatred dissipates. Hoyt May 2015 #121

Actually i think most mainstream MaggieD May 2015 #124

Post removed Post removed May 2015 #127

Agreed MaggieD May 2015 #129

Gone to MSM . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #130

Did you just arrive here from another planet? This isn't a contest orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #106

Based on what? MaggieD May 2015 #116

LBJ didn't seek reelection and Dem's beating up on Jimmy Carter orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #125

Right. Fuck those people who thought that the Vietnam war was a bad idea eridani May 2015 #120

Did helping elect Nixon MaggieD May 2015 #123

Sirhan Sirhan was the only one to help elect Nixon, RFK would have buried Dick . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #128

Oops.... MaggieD May 2015 #133

Yes the conversation of what's good for the world somtimes endicts orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #137

I think we discuss differences MaggieD May 2015 #141

He holds himself to higher standard and you and I aren't campaigning... orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #148

Had Humphrey come out moe strongly agains the war, he would have won eridani May 2015 #158

... TBF May 2015 #131

What a mess. Phlem May 2015 #132

Well I can't speak to the national picture but there are certainly some posters here that hrmjustin May 2015 #151

Challenging is seen as treason by people in your ' Group ' this is GD . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #156

"Your group"? hrmjustin May 2015 #159

See ya orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #163

Can't handle a question? hrmjustin May 2015 #164

Depends on what you call an 'attack'. cui bono May 2015 #170

No, criticism is healthy. hrmjustin May 2015 #171

Then what's the point of having a democracy? *(post I'm replying to was edited well after my reply) cui bono May 2015 #175

This message was self-deleted by its author hrmjustin May 2015 #177

Yes. When I read your post it did not have a comma. You not mentioning that is dishonest. cui bono May 2015 #231

This message was self-deleted by its author hrmjustin May 2015 #247

Wow your right I was really wrong here. i just looked at it again and I was totally in the wrong. hrmjustin May 2015 #248

Thank you. cui bono May 2015 #275

Again my apologies. hrmjustin May 2015 #277

This is really great to see marym625 May 2015 #294

Thank you. hrmjustin May 2015 #295

I see... whatchamacallit May 2015 #153

And the left is trying like hell to get President Cruz elected workinclasszero May 2015 #157

Has nothing to do with honesty, history or common sense does it, Do you orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #161

I don't believe there is any way that Ted Cruz could ever win the presidency. StevieM May 2015 #214

We heard the same thing going into the 08 election AgingAmerican May 2015 #226

THanks I really needed my scoop nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #160

Who was the front runner in 1968, RFK was assassinated WestSideStory May 2015 #167

We worked pretty hard in 2008 too. Spoiler alert. AtomicKitten May 2015 #168

So why don't you tell Hillary supporters to get behind Bernie? cui bono May 2015 #169

Y a w n again. ananda May 2015 #176

Wow, Johnson ran against Nixon? Warpy May 2015 #178

If you want more alternate history nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #179

Nader voters cost LBJ the election frylock May 2015 #303

I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious May 2015 #180

That works for me just fine. 840high May 2015 #182

Loyalty should be to principles Sobax May 2015 #189

It's called a primary. I suggest you get over it. Scootaloo May 2015 #193

So you don't agree with Bernie MaggieD May 2015 #201

I think just like Bernie, many of us have voiced concerns about ISSUES like the TPP here... cascadiance May 2015 #204

About what? bernie hasn't claimed that liberals are "tearing down" clinton Scootaloo May 2015 #210

I like all of our announced and presumed candidates. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #203

Boogah boogah boogah! deutsey May 2015 #206

You seem to get a heck of a lot of replies to your posts Aerows May 2015 #208

everything G_j May 2015 #209

some those tearing down Clinton are not from the Democratic party liberal N proud May 2015 #213

DU is not necessarily representative of most Democrats, and the polls seem to confirm that still_one May 2015 #216

A real pro-Hillary DU member . . . Depaysement May 2015 #220

"liberals"�.??? MrMickeysMom May 2015 #221

Give it up MFrohike May 2015 #222

Well she certainly is managing expectations. JEB May 2015 #223

Flame bait. morningfog May 2015 #234

why are authoritarians allowed to post personal attacks and disruptive flame bait with impunity? Doctor_J May 2015 #239

Gets worst than the fact that click bait is allowed here nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #271

The site owner has come out for Hillary. That's why. nt Romulox May 2015 #272

Hey Hey LBJ How Many Kids Did You Kill Today? Warren Stupidity May 2015 #246

Funny, I seem to recall this guy named Howard Dean...... beerandjesus May 2015 #249

What a bunch of bullshit. marym625 May 2015 #293

Sirhan Sirhan is how Nixon got elected Nevernose May 2015 #297

There aren't as many of them trying to take her down as you think. NCTraveler May 2015 #298