General Discussion

Fuddnik

(8,846 posts)

26. They tried the same thing, at about the same time, in Cleveland.

Tue May 26, 2015, 04:01 AM

May 2015

Back in the '70s, when Kucinich was Mayor of Cleveland.

Cleveland had a small, city owned electric company, that provided electricity to parts of the city an much cheaper rates than the electric monopoly, CEI. The monopoly tried for several years to force Cleveland to sell its utility, but Kucinich refused.

The President of a major bank back then, Brock Weir, of Cleveland Trust, also sat on CEI's board. Cleveland Trust also owned a substantial stake in city bonds, and Weir delivered Kucinich an ultimatum. Sell Muny Light or the bank would refuse to roll over the city bonds, demand payment in full, and put the city in default. Kucinich told them to stick it up their ass. He wasn't giving in to blackmail.

Cleveland Trust forced the city into default and the talking point of the day was Kucinich bankrupted the city. Not true, but they tried to recall him and failed.

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NAFTA, TPP, Detroit... Shame On Us All... [View all] WillyT May 2015 OP

That is sad. Too bad our big, gas guzzling cars couldn't compete with foreign cars beginning long Hoyt May 2015 #1

Real people live here, asshole. nt Romulox May 2015 #3

Yes they do, and many made good money producing gas guzzling, poorly designed Hoyt May 2015 #6

Our government picks the winners and losers. Our banks are utter failures, bailed out by regular Romulox May 2015 #7

No I'm not willing to protect them or corporations who don't act in the world's best interests, Hoyt May 2015 #9

And yet here we are, and that is EXACTLY what happened. So what *are* you defending? nt Romulox May 2015 #11

Wait, you're the one who was rah-rah-rah-ing TPP's patent protections extending to 3rd world.. X_Digger May 2015 #79

Fortunately, drug companies don't charge first-world prices in poor countries. Check it out Hoyt May 2015 #80

It was the auto executives who failed, not the autoworkers. Ken Burch May 2015 #13

Woody Guthrie cared about workers worldwide, listen to Deportee. Hoyt May 2015 #14

I'm for workers worldwide, too(none of whom ever win in these trade deals). Ken Burch May 2015 #15

Management or not, it's a fact. I do not remember unions putting anything on the table Hoyt May 2015 #17

Yet, you went straight to a huge management decision as the cause for Detroit's woes. merrily May 2015 #24

Whoever is to blame, our crummy, noncompetitive cars were the problem. Hoyt May 2015 #32

which were only being made DonCoquixote May 2015 #78

Customers not interested in them MichMan May 2015 #82

Funny, the smaller cars do seem to sell DonCoquixote May 2015 #83

Laid off one entire shift MichMan May 2015 #92

No, not surprising in the least LondonReign2 May 2015 #43

You're Wrong... The Toyota Celica Started Beating Detroit In The 80's.. But... WillyT May 2015 #4

I'm not willing to protect our auto companies of the 60/70s that produced gas guzzling cars. Hoyt May 2015 #5

Datsun 510s arrived here in 1968 . . . ucrdem May 2015 #8

Exactly. Back then, progressives shunned Detroit's gas, guzzling chromed monstrosities. Hoyt May 2015 #10

Yep. There's plenty of blame for what happened to Detroit but NAFTA is the wrong target. nt ucrdem May 2015 #12

Ah, so the energy/environmentally prudent left is to blame for Detroit. LMAO at the merrily May 2015 #25

Who said that. The big, clumsy, gas guzzling, noncompetitive cars were the problem. Hoyt May 2015 #34

The poster is making the exact opposite arguement you are claiming. NCTraveler May 2015 #90

I think he's tried to smear a few groups with blame for the demise of Detroit, but merrily May 2015 #91

Hmm that's not what I remember gollygee May 2015 #40

So far you've managed to blame unions and progressives for the fall of Detroit LondonReign2 May 2015 #45

Did you live back in the 60/70s? If so, what cars were the "lefties" driving? Hoyt May 2015 #46

Oooooo, "lefties" in quotes. The trifecta! LondonReign2 May 2015 #50

I was one of them. Are you trying to be obtuse? Hoyt May 2015 #51

Over the years I've merely realized that it is useless to argue with Republicans LondonReign2 May 2015 #55

I'd agree with that, but would add obtuse people on either side. Hoyt May 2015 #60

Vans were real popular. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #63

VW vans, especially. Good times. Hoyt May 2015 #65

That's because they ran on bong water. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #66

LOL, many of us did. Hoyt May 2015 #67

Nope, I've blamed auto companies, Nationalists, Protectionists, anyone who thought the gravy Hoyt May 2015 #49

The people who were responsible for putting gas guzzling, planned obsolescing cars on the market are merrily May 2015 #18

Those photos are mostly related to well-heeled folks. Hoyt May 2015 #35

They did this to Detroit on purpose. This was the fucking Arsenal of Democracy, and they trashed it. Romulox May 2015 #2

That's a logical conclusion from "let Detroit go bankrupt" but don't forget the corollary ucrdem May 2015 #16

No. By the time it go to the "Let Detroit go bankrupt" stage, the damage was done. merrily May 2015 #19

A lot was yes but I was commenting on the intentionality. ucrdem May 2015 #20

No, you were just doing you usual bit. merrily May 2015 #22

Saved the auto industry but too late to save the city. There is a difference. jwirr May 2015 #74

Go to Google Earth. Pick random spots in Detroit.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #21

Detroit was once a shining example of union strength creating a middle class and merrily May 2015 #23

They tried the same thing, at about the same time, in Cleveland. Fuddnik May 2015 #26

It's the same thing all over the planet.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #27

He used a light bulb in his campaign for congress. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #64

+1 gollygee May 2015 #29

Much worse than other cities. MichMan May 2015 #58

amen from a Detroiter n/t Quayblue May 2015 #84

A lot of other factors were responsible MichMan May 2015 #28

I'm not going to alert on this gollygee May 2015 #30

I am from metro Detroit and I hear the whistles loud and clear etherealtruth May 2015 #31

You just described present-day Chicago and its still standing. RiverLover May 2015 #33

The permanent war economy is a legacy that TPP seems intended to repair. ucrdem May 2015 #38

Maybe not, but its making fracking's natural gas a key component. RiverLover May 2015 #39

Okay but apparently the treaty itself doesn't say anything about fracking, just LNG, ucrdem May 2015 #42

Everything about it is "could" because it isn't in place yet. And logically, with reduced tariffs, RiverLover May 2015 #44

Sure but there are as many POTENTIAL bad effects as the imagination will allow ucrdem May 2015 #47

How is the TPP going to replace "the permanent war economy"? neverforget May 2015 #56

by incentivizing growth in other sectors. ucrdem May 2015 #59

That document says a lot of things but if you think that the TPP is suddenly going neverforget May 2015 #62

Auto supplier jobs now in suburbs MichMan May 2015 #61

The vast majority of mom-and-pop machine shops and the like have closed in Metro Detroit Romulox May 2015 #69

Tariffs on imports from Mexico averaged 4% before NAFTA. pampango May 2015 #36

NAFTA seems to have improved employment in Detroit ucrdem May 2015 #37

The steep, downhill trajectory? That's not "improvement". nt Romulox May 2015 #71

NAFTA is one cause of many. Detroit has seen a *precipitous* decline since its passage. Romulox May 2015 #70

Unfortunately since long before its passage. From 250,000 in the mid-70's to 150,000 in early 90's. pampango May 2015 #75

Nonsense. It saw a precipitous decline AFTER its passage. Your cite stats to prove it. nt Romulox May 2015 #93

The drop from 250,000 to 150,000 BEFORE its passage was not a "precipitous decline"? pampango May 2015 #95

NAFTA had nothing to do with the fall of the Detroit auto industry. sufrommich May 2015 #41

First company I worked for sent its PC board mfg to Mexico BuelahWitch May 2015 #87

An interesting article: fredamae May 2015 #48

kick samsingh May 2015 #52

"NAFTA made manufacturing cars in the U.S. too expensive." hack89 May 2015 #53

In non-union "Right to Work" states, every one. Race to the bottom! nt Romulox May 2015 #68

I know. But it has nothing to do with NAFTA. nt hack89 May 2015 #73

Wrong again. It's of a piece. The constituent suppliers for cheap labor southern industry Romulox May 2015 #94

Silicon Valley will be next FreakinDJ May 2015 #54

It's going to be sweet to see. In my lifetime, I guarantee it. nt Romulox May 2015 #72

Doubtful. KamaAina May 2015 #77

K & R AzDar May 2015 #57

More to come . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #76

I proudly bought a Cadillac recently, made in the good 'ole USA. My first American car beaglelover May 2015 #81

That's the Cadillac Division that moved out of Detroit? JustABozoOnThisBus May 2015 #85

Only a few hundred employees....the cars are still built there.... beaglelover May 2015 #88

I bear no shame for this. PeteSelman May 2015 #86

Train wreck of a local government. NCTraveler May 2015 #89