General Discussion

pampango

(24,692 posts)

36. Tariffs on imports from Mexico averaged 4% before NAFTA.

Tue May 26, 2015, 08:21 AM

May 2015

It is doubtful that removing a 4% tariff is what caused Detroit's downfall. Detroit's auto industry employment was at its highest in the mid-1970's with a sustained decline after that along with mini-recoveries in the mid-1980's, mid-1990's and in the past few years. It is doubtful that NAFTA caused the 40 year decline in Detroit's auto employment.

https://web.duke.edu/soc142/team1/employment.html
https://macvandam.wordpress.com/fall-of-the-automotive-industry-2/

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NAFTA, TPP, Detroit... Shame On Us All... [View all] WillyT May 2015 OP

That is sad. Too bad our big, gas guzzling cars couldn't compete with foreign cars beginning long Hoyt May 2015 #1

Real people live here, asshole. nt Romulox May 2015 #3

Yes they do, and many made good money producing gas guzzling, poorly designed Hoyt May 2015 #6

Our government picks the winners and losers. Our banks are utter failures, bailed out by regular Romulox May 2015 #7

No I'm not willing to protect them or corporations who don't act in the world's best interests, Hoyt May 2015 #9

And yet here we are, and that is EXACTLY what happened. So what *are* you defending? nt Romulox May 2015 #11

Wait, you're the one who was rah-rah-rah-ing TPP's patent protections extending to 3rd world.. X_Digger May 2015 #79

Fortunately, drug companies don't charge first-world prices in poor countries. Check it out Hoyt May 2015 #80

It was the auto executives who failed, not the autoworkers. Ken Burch May 2015 #13

Woody Guthrie cared about workers worldwide, listen to Deportee. Hoyt May 2015 #14

I'm for workers worldwide, too(none of whom ever win in these trade deals). Ken Burch May 2015 #15

Management or not, it's a fact. I do not remember unions putting anything on the table Hoyt May 2015 #17

Yet, you went straight to a huge management decision as the cause for Detroit's woes. merrily May 2015 #24

Whoever is to blame, our crummy, noncompetitive cars were the problem. Hoyt May 2015 #32

which were only being made DonCoquixote May 2015 #78

Customers not interested in them MichMan May 2015 #82

Funny, the smaller cars do seem to sell DonCoquixote May 2015 #83

Laid off one entire shift MichMan May 2015 #92

No, not surprising in the least LondonReign2 May 2015 #43

You're Wrong... The Toyota Celica Started Beating Detroit In The 80's.. But... WillyT May 2015 #4

I'm not willing to protect our auto companies of the 60/70s that produced gas guzzling cars. Hoyt May 2015 #5

Datsun 510s arrived here in 1968 . . . ucrdem May 2015 #8

Exactly. Back then, progressives shunned Detroit's gas, guzzling chromed monstrosities. Hoyt May 2015 #10

Yep. There's plenty of blame for what happened to Detroit but NAFTA is the wrong target. nt ucrdem May 2015 #12

Ah, so the energy/environmentally prudent left is to blame for Detroit. LMAO at the merrily May 2015 #25

Who said that. The big, clumsy, gas guzzling, noncompetitive cars were the problem. Hoyt May 2015 #34

The poster is making the exact opposite arguement you are claiming. NCTraveler May 2015 #90

I think he's tried to smear a few groups with blame for the demise of Detroit, but merrily May 2015 #91

Hmm that's not what I remember gollygee May 2015 #40

So far you've managed to blame unions and progressives for the fall of Detroit LondonReign2 May 2015 #45

Did you live back in the 60/70s? If so, what cars were the "lefties" driving? Hoyt May 2015 #46

Oooooo, "lefties" in quotes. The trifecta! LondonReign2 May 2015 #50

I was one of them. Are you trying to be obtuse? Hoyt May 2015 #51

Over the years I've merely realized that it is useless to argue with Republicans LondonReign2 May 2015 #55

I'd agree with that, but would add obtuse people on either side. Hoyt May 2015 #60

Vans were real popular. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #63

VW vans, especially. Good times. Hoyt May 2015 #65

That's because they ran on bong water. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #66

LOL, many of us did. Hoyt May 2015 #67

Nope, I've blamed auto companies, Nationalists, Protectionists, anyone who thought the gravy Hoyt May 2015 #49

The people who were responsible for putting gas guzzling, planned obsolescing cars on the market are merrily May 2015 #18

Those photos are mostly related to well-heeled folks. Hoyt May 2015 #35

They did this to Detroit on purpose. This was the fucking Arsenal of Democracy, and they trashed it. Romulox May 2015 #2

That's a logical conclusion from "let Detroit go bankrupt" but don't forget the corollary ucrdem May 2015 #16

No. By the time it go to the "Let Detroit go bankrupt" stage, the damage was done. merrily May 2015 #19

A lot was yes but I was commenting on the intentionality. ucrdem May 2015 #20

No, you were just doing you usual bit. merrily May 2015 #22

Saved the auto industry but too late to save the city. There is a difference. jwirr May 2015 #74

Go to Google Earth. Pick random spots in Detroit.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #21

Detroit was once a shining example of union strength creating a middle class and merrily May 2015 #23

They tried the same thing, at about the same time, in Cleveland. Fuddnik May 2015 #26

It's the same thing all over the planet.... Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #27

He used a light bulb in his campaign for congress. Spitfire of ATJ May 2015 #64

+1 gollygee May 2015 #29

Much worse than other cities. MichMan May 2015 #58

amen from a Detroiter n/t Quayblue May 2015 #84

A lot of other factors were responsible MichMan May 2015 #28

I'm not going to alert on this gollygee May 2015 #30

I am from metro Detroit and I hear the whistles loud and clear etherealtruth May 2015 #31

You just described present-day Chicago and its still standing. RiverLover May 2015 #33

The permanent war economy is a legacy that TPP seems intended to repair. ucrdem May 2015 #38

Maybe not, but its making fracking's natural gas a key component. RiverLover May 2015 #39

Okay but apparently the treaty itself doesn't say anything about fracking, just LNG, ucrdem May 2015 #42

Everything about it is "could" because it isn't in place yet. And logically, with reduced tariffs, RiverLover May 2015 #44

Sure but there are as many POTENTIAL bad effects as the imagination will allow ucrdem May 2015 #47

How is the TPP going to replace "the permanent war economy"? neverforget May 2015 #56

by incentivizing growth in other sectors. ucrdem May 2015 #59

That document says a lot of things but if you think that the TPP is suddenly going neverforget May 2015 #62

Auto supplier jobs now in suburbs MichMan May 2015 #61

The vast majority of mom-and-pop machine shops and the like have closed in Metro Detroit Romulox May 2015 #69

Tariffs on imports from Mexico averaged 4% before NAFTA. pampango May 2015 #36

NAFTA seems to have improved employment in Detroit ucrdem May 2015 #37

The steep, downhill trajectory? That's not "improvement". nt Romulox May 2015 #71

NAFTA is one cause of many. Detroit has seen a *precipitous* decline since its passage. Romulox May 2015 #70

Unfortunately since long before its passage. From 250,000 in the mid-70's to 150,000 in early 90's. pampango May 2015 #75

Nonsense. It saw a precipitous decline AFTER its passage. Your cite stats to prove it. nt Romulox May 2015 #93

The drop from 250,000 to 150,000 BEFORE its passage was not a "precipitous decline"? pampango May 2015 #95

NAFTA had nothing to do with the fall of the Detroit auto industry. sufrommich May 2015 #41

First company I worked for sent its PC board mfg to Mexico BuelahWitch May 2015 #87

An interesting article: fredamae May 2015 #48

kick samsingh May 2015 #52

"NAFTA made manufacturing cars in the U.S. too expensive." hack89 May 2015 #53

In non-union "Right to Work" states, every one. Race to the bottom! nt Romulox May 2015 #68

I know. But it has nothing to do with NAFTA. nt hack89 May 2015 #73

Wrong again. It's of a piece. The constituent suppliers for cheap labor southern industry Romulox May 2015 #94

Silicon Valley will be next FreakinDJ May 2015 #54

It's going to be sweet to see. In my lifetime, I guarantee it. nt Romulox May 2015 #72

Doubtful. KamaAina May 2015 #77

K & R AzDar May 2015 #57

More to come . orpupilofnature57 May 2015 #76

I proudly bought a Cadillac recently, made in the good 'ole USA. My first American car beaglelover May 2015 #81

That's the Cadillac Division that moved out of Detroit? JustABozoOnThisBus May 2015 #85

Only a few hundred employees....the cars are still built there.... beaglelover May 2015 #88

I bear no shame for this. PeteSelman May 2015 #86

Train wreck of a local government. NCTraveler May 2015 #89