General Discussion

MH1

(19,163 posts)

29. Depends on the time frame.

Sat Jun 6, 2015, 09:12 AM

Jun 2015

How do you return to sane incarceration rates?

Step 1 is stop incarcerating people for stupid reasons.

That in itself doesn't free people who are currently incarcerated, but the rate would come down over time.

Of course in practice, to stop incarcerating people for stupid reasons probably means changing a law in such a way that it would be necessary (morally and in public opinion at least) to make it retroactive.

So then the concern you imply comes into play. We incarcerated a bunch of people who weren't violent criminals before, but now they've been in a great training program for creating violent criminals. So we've set ourselves up a nice, true dilemma here.

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Sentencing reform: I'm going to present a false dilemma [View all] Recursion Jun 2015 OP

Of course it's a false dilemma, and reducing present... TreasonousBastard Jun 2015 #1

I think nobody has any idea what would happen if we returned to sane incarceration levels Recursion Jun 2015 #3

Well, we are dealing with hypotheticals here... TreasonousBastard Jun 2015 #6

Themistocles had a quote about empires Recursion Jun 2015 #7

CA has been doing early jail release. joshcryer Jun 2015 #10

How's it gone? (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #11

Pretty damn well, lowest crime since 1967. joshcryer Jun 2015 #16

Depends on the time frame. MH1 Jun 2015 #29

I think in marketing/business terms... Wounded Bear Jun 2015 #30

But it's not really captive, some of us only think we are. MH1 Jun 2015 #33

If the hypothetical scenario means that 2x as many violent criminals are locked up no... Kalidurga Jun 2015 #2

Two points Recursion Jun 2015 #4

No that would be a stupid trade Kalidurga Jun 2015 #5

The needs of the many, etc, etc. joshcryer Jun 2015 #8

OK, let's run with "needs of the many" -- are more people harmed by mass incarceration Recursion Jun 2015 #9

Violent crime. joshcryer Jun 2015 #12

Most of them *were* non-violent when they went in (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #14

And this transformation into violent people is something you are asserting without evidence. Bluenorthwest Jun 2015 #24

To say what? That some non-violent offenders become violent in prison? Recursion Jun 2015 #25

I think the reason there are so many people in prison now Blue_In_AK Jun 2015 #13

We absolutely do, and we need to control prison violence Recursion Jun 2015 #15

I know of someone formerly close to me Blue_In_AK Jun 2015 #17

Thanks. This: JDPriestly Jun 2015 #21

It's really terrible. Blue_In_AK Jun 2015 #23

Blackouts are incredibly scary JonLP24 Jun 2015 #28

Agree 100%. And as a society we often push alcohol on people. Chathamization Jun 2015 #46

I voted yes on principle ... ucrdem Jun 2015 #18

I agree. Blue_In_AK Jun 2015 #19

This presents a false choice. JDPriestly Jun 2015 #20

Thanks for repeating my first sentence Recursion Jun 2015 #22

Some of the responses to this thread make me cry. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2015 #36

Sadly, you're right Recursion Jun 2015 #37

I'm sure not what the point is to this JonLP24 Jun 2015 #26

Ridiculous. 99Forever Jun 2015 #27

Yes, it very much is. It forces people to think beyond their comfort zones. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2015 #42

No sir. 99Forever Jun 2015 #48

I would assume that GPS monitoring technology is better today than in 1992. Nye Bevan Jun 2015 #31

Can we expect crime levels like in Baltimore? Calista241 Jun 2015 #32

I was thinking of something very similar JonLP24 Jun 2015 #44

"Is it better to spend a year in prison, or to be the victim of one violent crime"? Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2015 #34

Right? I think that symmetry is kind of chilling Recursion Jun 2015 #35

I don't find it's chilling, because I doubt it's more than a coincidence. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2015 #38

True. They also have much higher tax rates and higher social spending Recursion Jun 2015 #39

Relevant, but far from the whole picture. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2015 #40

Or you're looking at the wrong thing kcr Jun 2015 #41

This is my favorite part JonLP24 Jun 2015 #47

This year has revealed some police departments don't like investigating rape JonLP24 Jun 2015 #45

Yes with the caveat that we need to focus on rehabilitation davidpdx Jun 2015 #43