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Springslips

(533 posts)
50. That argument does not hold water, never did.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 12:33 PM
Jun 2015

The democrats including Clinton voted for the war simply because they are week and cynical. They did not want to see an easy Bush victory causing a surge of patriotism while having a no vote on the record to use against them in elections. They figured that if it went wrong that the Bush gang would be to blame. To them the political selfish decision was simple. A yes vote played it save. This is the mark against Clinton, and it is a convincing criticism; she has no real position on issues except for what will advance her goals.

The AUMF argument is absurd to buy into. It is a weasely agrument for the pro-war dems to make. It only works when one swallows a whole bottle of cognitive dissonance. It is obviously fense sitting of the most ridiculous kind: war turns popular they can say they voted for it; war turns badly they can say the only authorized war under certain conditions promised by the admin. It like handing the keys to a drunk that promises not to drive; if you don't want him/ her to drive, don't hand over the keys!

The argument really blows up when dems say they want an office to oppose republican agendas. "Vote for me and I'll fight them." Good. But then I see they went along with repubs on the AUMF based on a promise. What? How can I be confident that they'll fight the GOP when all the GOP has to do is to make a promise to get them on their side? It can be framed, if you accept the AUMF argument, that they are way too nieve to be an effective opposition. I mean like Nigerian lottery nieve.

These are questions I have that Clinton will need to answer more clearly before she can win my vote. It will be a hard thing, because I have lots of questions regarding that particular war and the votes that went along with it.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Hello. SamKnause Jun 2015 #1
Hello Evergreen Emerald Jun 2015 #2
"Bernie's does not"? Scootaloo Jun 2015 #4
"Hillary does not?" Evergreen Emerald Jun 2015 #5
So because the poster you're responding to is wrong, you need to be wrong too? Scootaloo Jun 2015 #6
I am not wrong Evergreen Emerald Jun 2015 #7
Sanders has been working on racial and gender issues since the mid-60s. ieoeja Jun 2015 #42
Women's and children's rights, okasha Jun 2015 #68
Hillary voted for the Iraq war, SamKnause Jun 2015 #8
And here we go again - Clinton did NOT vote for the Iraq war. Just because... George II Jun 2015 #41
That argument does not hold water, never did. Springslips Jun 2015 #50
Democrats="they?" okasha Jun 2015 #69
They a pronoun substitute for Springslips Jun 2015 #79
I tend to agree with you rock Jun 2015 #57
Sanders voted for the AUMF. okasha Jun 2015 #51
There were two "AUMF"s, one just three days after the September 11 attacks... George II Jun 2015 #54
The first AUMF authorized the invasion of Afghanistan. okasha Jun 2015 #60
Right, I read the title quickly for the first, knowing it basically had nothing to do with Iraq..... George II Jun 2015 #62
Absolutely correct. okasha Jun 2015 #66
Hillary talks a big game regarding women's rights, but consistently ignores the plight of women in the Arab world & other places who are raped, mutilated, enslaved etc. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2015 #61
Everything between "Hillary talks okasha Jun 2015 #70
Bernie voted for appropriations that kept the Iraq war going. MADem Jun 2015 #63
Except for those women and children that died in the Iraq war, I guess. Dawgs Jun 2015 #10
Sanders voted for the bills okasha Jun 2015 #71
LOL! You guys are so funny. n/t Dawgs Jun 2015 #76
Au conttaire. okasha Jun 2015 #87
Dead wrong Jumpin Jack Flash Jun 2015 #81
The only time I have ever heard of this Evergreen Emerald Jun 2015 #92
I can tell you this - Hillary Clinton is no progressive liberal Jumpin Jack Flash Jun 2015 #93
You are wrong. Evergreen Emerald Jun 2015 #94
Lets be very clear Gman Jun 2015 #17
"the powers that be" MohRokTah Jun 2015 #3
You wrote these words just recently Fumesucker Jun 2015 #9
So? MohRokTah Jun 2015 #21
Why? n/t Dawgs Jun 2015 #11
It's woo. MohRokTah Jun 2015 #22
It's an all purpose excuse. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #25
Precisely. IF they mean a specific group of people, name the group. MohRokTah Jun 2015 #26
But everyone knows who TPTB are ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #28
Same as the Bogeyman, Bildebegers, Illuminati, and Space Aliens. eom MohRokTah Jun 2015 #29
And the Priory of Sion. okasha Jun 2015 #72
Common Sense Sanders. blm Jun 2015 #12
Base dpatbrown Jun 2015 #23
Koch Bros plan is ,,,, Cryptoad Jun 2015 #39
Yep. Bernie ain't falling for that ploy, and neither will I. The Dem candidate is MY candidate. blm Jun 2015 #49
Where is this "the record" being stored and who's in charge of keeping it safe? L0oniX Jun 2015 #13
A Sanders/Clinton or Clinton/Sanders Ticket HoosierCowboy Jun 2015 #14
No, it won't. Not enough regional variety. nt MADem Jun 2015 #64
Hi & get ready to mark Hillary Clinton for Pres on your ballot in 2016 misterhighwasted Jun 2015 #15
Just like in 08. nt awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #75
Yup and this time our President will be a woman. misterhighwasted Jun 2015 #91
While I disagree as I think her corporate ties make her Dustlawyer Jun 2015 #16
There is nothing inherently wrong with corporations Gman Jun 2015 #20
Good luck! DFW Jun 2015 #34
We all need to support the nominee whether its Sanders or Clinton. I hope its Sanders. marble falls Jun 2015 #18
Progressive dpatbrown Jun 2015 #19
As a Bernie supporter, thank you aintitfunny Jun 2015 #24
I agree with the OP. Just with the names reversed. riqster Jun 2015 #27
Whomever the Dem candidate is, I'm backing them 100% apnu Jun 2015 #30
Well said. classof56 Jun 2015 #33
Polls indicate the ficus is smarter than Ted Cruz! grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #47
And the other okasha Jun 2015 #73
They just graduated to an Clown Airbus A380 Jumpin Jack Flash Jun 2015 #82
Thank you! sabrina 1 Jun 2015 #31
K&R! stonecutter357 Jun 2015 #32
noted and thank you JackInGreen Jun 2015 #35
I don't want to fight with you marym625 Jun 2015 #36
OWS self destructed... Oktober Jun 2015 #37
I agree Gman Jun 2015 #65
Good job, thanks. And you did that without feeling the need to tear down Sanders - refreshing! George II Jun 2015 #38
Much appreciated. K&R. bullwinkle428 Jun 2015 #40
Sigh... GUYS!!!! Can we STOP the goddamn PILE-ON???? PLEASE???????????? calimary Jun 2015 #43
What pile-on? jeff47 Jun 2015 #53
Well said dpatbrown Jun 2015 #58
No kidding, my friend! calimary Jun 2015 #59
First of all, dpatbrown Jun 2015 #74
Good to hear LiberalLovinLug Jun 2015 #44
I think Hillary is the most qualified and most electable candidate but i will support the nominee. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #45
Thank you! And vice-versa! grahamhgreen Jun 2015 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author olddots Jun 2015 #48
I definitely think he is electable for the nomination BainsBane Jun 2015 #52
Fair enough. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2015 #55
Good for you fadedrose Jun 2015 #56
Good message. Warren DeMontague Jun 2015 #67
I don't know of any Hillary supporter Gman Jun 2015 #78
Recommended. H2O Man Jun 2015 #77
What exactly makes her qualified madokie Jun 2015 #80
"Qualifications hardly" Gman Jun 2015 #85
What I wrote is whats important to you? madokie Jun 2015 #88
It's also the opinion of many more than Sanders Gman Jun 2015 #89
I won't even try madokie Jun 2015 #90
I think part of what shut Jamaal510 Jun 2015 #83
Obama hit the scene with a bang at the 04 DNC convention Gman Jun 2015 #84
As an undecided lovemydog Jun 2015 #86
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