General Discussion

Recursion

(56,582 posts)

14. Because the TPP has been organizing gold.

Sat Jun 13, 2015, 02:04 AM

Jun 2015

Activists have been dreaming of the level of engagement this has gotten, and hell even I'm glad about that, if we will be able to keep that energy and point it in a more useful direction (say, a $25/hour minimum wage).

Also, AFL-CIO, at least, would probably prefer for Congress to be able to set higher tariffs for any given country, so the free trade agreement model is one they fundamentally dislike. I disagree with them that that's the best solution, but that is what they support and it's a sensible position. But I think it's kind of like defending ferriers (the people who put shoes on horses) right when the automobile is coming out. SEIU's position is more complicated, because export of services has become so important to their members.

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The jobs are going whether we sign agreements or not. [View all] Recursion Jun 2015 OP

Unrec PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #1

Well we already have "jobs" back in the US; unemployment is very low Recursion Jun 2015 #2

Here is what needs to change PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #5

Sounds like we need a social change, which I completely agree with Recursion Jun 2015 #8

+1. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #78

Refusal to acknowledge the manipulation of the official US "unemployment" figures Pooka Fey Jun 2015 #60

What kind of jobs? Are they the kind of jobs that a person Exilednight Jun 2015 #71

American people, though--not foreign people making a few dollars a day...? MADem Jun 2015 #27

There it is PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #32

What a rude thing for you to say!! Nice tactic-make me the enemy, and get out the torches and MADem Jun 2015 #34

Gonna fall back on American exceptionalism? There is no such thing and even if it was it wouldn't TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #91

What's better? To fall back on "Fuck it, we're all gonna die?" MADem Jun 2015 #92

Yep, we better adapt because isolating ourselves out of fear of change ain't gonna work for long. Hoyt Jun 2015 #3

Not fear of change Joe Turner Jun 2015 #9

So all the world's major countries -- including Sanders' favorite Scandinavian -- are just wrong? nt Hoyt Jun 2015 #79

Northern Europe is not part of TPP Joe Turner Jun 2015 #80

They are part of TPIP. Try to keep up. Hoyt Jun 2015 #82

Different agreement try avoiding tangents Joe Turner Jun 2015 #83

This tread is about the TPP, TPIP, etc. Hoyt Jun 2015 #84

As usual you are mixing apples with oranges Joe Turner Jun 2015 #87

Look at the OP I responded to. You might have tried to limit the game to TPP, I didn't. Hoyt Jun 2015 #88

Changing the subject will get you nowhere Joe Turner Jun 2015 #90

Even so, that doesn't mean we should grease the outsourcing skids 99th_Monkey Jun 2015 #4

I don't really think they do that. If anything they make it more difficult Recursion Jun 2015 #10

Why then is virtually every labor union & labor advocate saying otherwise? 99th_Monkey Jun 2015 #12

Because the TPP has been organizing gold. Recursion Jun 2015 #14

If the TPP was really about jobs, that would be correct DJ13 Jun 2015 #6

I'm troubled by what I've heard about those too, and if they end up in the text I'd be against it Recursion Jun 2015 #11

It's the power that TPP would give to corporations over governments that is frightening. Demit Jun 2015 #43

No. Really, no. The TPP limits corporate power. Recursion Jun 2015 #45

Well, you'd have to show me exactly where in the agreement corporate power is limited, Demit Jun 2015 #49

But of course, no one can show you exactly where in the agreement . . . hatrack Jun 2015 #61

Exactimundo. Demit Jun 2015 #63

Agreed Gloria Jun 2015 #16

If only I were as smart and well-informed as you and Bernie Sanders. merrily Jun 2015 #7

Manufacturing can certainly come back with the right policies Joe Turner Jun 2015 #13

Manufacturing *is* back. It doesn't need to "come back" Recursion Jun 2015 #15

Germany has tarrifs AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #19

Oh, no you have that completely backwards Recursion Jun 2015 #20

The TTP is less about trade and more about sovereignty. Jesus Malverde Jun 2015 #17

Meh. The TPP prevents US corporations from running completely roughshod over developing nations Recursion Jun 2015 #18

"Outside tribunal" AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #21

No, the WTO. AFL has a 70% victory rate in it Recursion Jun 2015 #28

It should be cheaper to build here than cross the largest ocean on the planet. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #22

It is. that's why we still have so many factories here Recursion Jun 2015 #24

We're all going to die anyways, let's all start a meth habit!!11! Fearless Jun 2015 #23

Mass manufacturing labor is dead or dying, with that I agree. joshcryer Jun 2015 #25

Basic income/social dividend is really the only workable future I see Recursion Jun 2015 #26

I've always supported it, but TPP is where I realized... joshcryer Jun 2015 #29

That's my ambivalence about the TPP too Recursion Jun 2015 #30

"ambivalence" joshcryer Jun 2015 #33

60-90 days is not enough time to find TeaPubliKlans looking out for the people, the environment, and TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #93

Yes, it is part of advancement in technology treestar Jun 2015 #86

Yeah, we're all just chumps. Maedhros Jun 2015 #31

There is a way. They are called import tariffs. on point Jun 2015 #35

And then our exports also go away Recursion Jun 2015 #37

30% GDP drop is acceptable PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #38

Fair enough Recursion Jun 2015 #40

Rmoney was correct about makers and takers PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #46

Leeches and bloodsuckers Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #94

KnR for complex thinking. Isolationism is not the answer. Wishful thinking won't get us there either Hekate Jun 2015 #36

As long as trade agreements contain octoberlib Jun 2015 #39

ISDS lets AFL-CIO sue Mexico for preventing workers from organizing Recursion Jun 2015 #41

Unrecommended to the max. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #42

So, make an argument (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #44

I have never agreed with a post you have made since I have been on DU. Not a single one. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #47

I have agreed with several of yours. The difference is, I bring evidence to back up my claims. Recursion Jun 2015 #48

You bring corporate talking points on one issue after another. You call it evidence. Enthusiast Jun 2015 #50

"Corporate" is a lazy word. Recursion Jun 2015 #54

Evidence? Puh-leeze! NOT A SINGLE LINK IN YOUR OP Divernan Jun 2015 #53

OK, so make the opposite argument Recursion Jun 2015 #55

That'd be like "arguing with" the Black Knight Divernan Jun 2015 #59

You just lost Divernan. nt tridim Jun 2015 #76

It's available on line, so stop the "after I read it" I may be against it spiel. Divernan Jun 2015 #51

No, it's not (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #52

Wikileaks is your friend - well not yours, but the rest of us. Divernan Jun 2015 #56

I'll wait until the actual text is passed back to Congress (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #57

Manufacturing employment has been declining in all developed countries for 30-40 years. pampango Jun 2015 #58

+1 Pooka Fey Jun 2015 #62

Bullshit. 99Forever Jun 2015 #64

Care to expand on that? (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #65

They have such a strong argument, no? Agschmid Jun 2015 #66

I know. It damn near convinces me every time (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #69

Major corporate lying bullshit. 99Forever Jun 2015 #67

Can we get slightly more concrete? (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #68

Save for the prols. 99Forever Jun 2015 #70

And there is nothing we can do if they wish to sell it in America... kentuck Jun 2015 #72

Who are "they" and what is "it"? (nt) Recursion Jun 2015 #73

They are those taking the jobs overseas... kentuck Jun 2015 #75

It's not just manufacturing jobs - LiberalElite Jun 2015 #74

If our tariffs weren't practically non-existant our jobs would not be off-shored brush Jun 2015 #77

I've never said I didn't want trade agreements. LWolf Jun 2015 #81

now now stop with the reality treestar Jun 2015 #85

There is nuance to what you are saying Cosmocat Jun 2015 #89