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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
38. In fact, as I have posted in the past, the word "marriage" has two meanings.
Sun May 13, 2012, 07:04 PM
May 2012

The first is the legal meaning -- marriage means a relationship that is registered with and recognized by the government. Couples obtain certain legal advantages (and disadvantages especially upon dissolution of a marriage) by completing a legal marriage. The legal marriage can be witnessed and officiated by any person authorized by the appropriate government entity. Some states recognize common law marriages requiring a couple to live together as husband and wife for a certain number of years. If they can prove that they have lived together for the requisite number of years, their marriage is recognized as legally binding.

The second meaning of "marriage" is the religious status and rite. Couples may be legally married without being married in a religious rite or without having their marriage recognized by a church. If, for example, a Catholic is divorced and wants to remarry but cannot get the approval of the church for his remarriage, he may choose to enter into a legal or civil marriage that is neither officiated or approved by his church.

People sometimes do not realize that when they marry in a church, the religious official, pastor, rabbi or priest who "marries" them has them fill out forms that the religious official files with the appropriate government agency. When the marriage is performed and made official in that way, the two meanings of marriage are combined. But the only marriage that counts for the government is the civil marriage, the registration of the marriage and the forms that are filled out and provided to the government. The religious marriage is just tradition or a matter of faith.

A couple can marry in a church and not file the papers. But then they don't benefit from the advantages of being legally married or suffer from the disadvantages. If a couple is not married and one of them dies, the other will not get survivor Social Security benefits. On the other hand, if the couple decides to split up they don't have to get a divorce.

So, the argument about marriage being a religious sacrament is true -- but the problem is that marriage also has the meaning of a civil agreement. Churches have the right to restrict religious marriages to whomever they wish. A Jewish rabbi cannot be compelled by law to marry Catholics, for example. But the government does not have the right (in my opinion) to deny a couple the right to marry based on race or gender or religious faith.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

No, Sir: And If they Meant It About 'Preserving Marriage' They Would Be Crusading Against Divorce... The Magistrate May 2012 #1
And adultery. nt laundry_queen May 2012 #29
And many a battle against those -- divorce and adultery -- has been fought and lost. JDPriestly May 2012 #36
Hell, I have a pretty good imagination and I can't even THINK of one. I've certainly ... 11 Bravo May 2012 #2
Of Course. Any person that owns a co. that will have to pony up health care, retirement, etc. WingDinger May 2012 #3
Actually, retirement benefits can go to whomever one designates. GoCubsGo May 2012 #10
Not so with Social Security, which is all the retirement $ most folks will ever see. kestrel91316 May 2012 #16
that's not a "cogent" argument (as the OP asked)...it's an argument that denying civil rights saves CreekDog May 2012 #28
So that lesbian woman at the next desk should pay for Social Security that JDPriestly May 2012 #37
They can't say it, but they try to dance around it... targetpractice May 2012 #4
Nope sakabatou May 2012 #5
No Solly Mack May 2012 #6
Yes thelordofhell May 2012 #7
Well, "Because I don't like it" is a perfectly coherent reason malthaussen May 2012 #8
I've never heard a single rational argument about why marriage equality may be detrimental to ANYONE kestrel91316 May 2012 #17
There is one just upthread. malthaussen May 2012 #20
Most/many employers do not cover family Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #22
No. Starry Messenger May 2012 #9
I never have. Jazzgirl May 2012 #11
Nope Kalidurga May 2012 #12
no d_r May 2012 #13
sure arely staircase May 2012 #14
Well, Since You Asked, On the Road May 2012 #15
Not bad. But you ignore the Common Law. malthaussen May 2012 #19
marriage does not require a wedding in texas arely staircase May 2012 #21
I don't know if it's still the case, but at one time in Texas HillWilliam May 2012 #31
dont know about the two witnesses0 arely staircase May 2012 #47
No marriage requires a wedding obamanut2012 May 2012 #53
First, what state requires a ceremony Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #23
It's not that hard to parse malthaussen May 2012 #25
Then that isn't an argument for equal marriage, IMO. Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #33
Poster defines "marriage" as being among members of both sexes malthaussen May 2012 #35
In fact, as I have posted in the past, the word "marriage" has two meanings. JDPriestly May 2012 #38
The religious definition is prior to the civil definition, however. malthaussen May 2012 #39
Yes, the religious one came first, which is why people are confused. JDPriestly May 2012 #56
I was using "prior" in the logical sense... malthaussen May 2012 #57
Never in my lifetime. Rex May 2012 #18
No. All the arguments start from the false premise that homosexuality is an abomination. aikoaiko May 2012 #24
Just to play Devil's advocate for a moment malthaussen May 2012 #26
the need for small tribes arely staircase May 2012 #27
Ha, I hadn't thought of that at all malthaussen May 2012 #30
That is because in primitive societies and earlier ages, society feared underpopulation. JDPriestly May 2012 #40
but all societies everywhere have not so conspired RainDog May 2012 #45
As to your first point malthaussen May 2012 #46
actually, that's not the case RainDog May 2012 #49
Ah, interesting. Dr Boswell would appear to have lucked into a good lode malthaussen May 2012 #51
Oh, and what I also find really interesting RainDog May 2012 #50
Most people haven't read The Source malthaussen May 2012 #52
thanks for the conversation RainDog May 2012 #54
The pleasure was mine, assuredly. malthaussen May 2012 #58
I heard Rush Limbaugh talking about it interfering with his ability to get married every couple of madinmaryland May 2012 #32
yes " I don't want to do ritual you straight people do" said one of my childhood friends, He said it mulsh May 2012 #34
I don't belive the polls, I don't think anyone for the most part, cares if gays get married. crazyjoe May 2012 #41
Then with respect, you live up to your user name malthaussen May 2012 #42
Never have, never will. Initech May 2012 #43
religious belief does not require coherent thought RainDog May 2012 #44
Because it would create more married couples, requiring more married benefits? haele May 2012 #48
You ask the best questions, Don. n/t EFerrari May 2012 #55
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