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bravenak

(34,648 posts)

68. Why would I bother with Republicans? You want black folks to try their luck with Republicans?

Sat Jul 18, 2015, 11:47 PM

Jul 2015

How is that helpful? Democrats are supposed to be the ones who give a shit. If black lives matter they matter no matter what, we do not see candidates saying enough about racism and the structural systematic abuse and white supremacy in this nation and it's systems. It don't matter whether we are rich or poor, smart or stupid, strong or weak, we are abused by this nation daily and jobs for youths won't do a damn thing to fix it. You're upset by this? Imagine how upset millions of black people are on a daily basis that their lives are worthless to America. Imagine that load on your shoulders and looking at your child knowing that they WILL be abused. If they are killed it will be their fault. That you even have to come up with a phrase like 'black lives matter' to try to convince your fellow man that you are human, not an animal. Of course your minor inconvenience of dealing with this terrible trauma of speech interruptions must be more significantly damaging to your psyche than the actual racism is to those protesters.
I'm feeling so bad for you right now. Tearing up.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] Agschmid Jul 2015 OP

Good post! bravenak Jul 2015 #1

I'm sorry, when Sanders gets attacked over his racial politics, that's gonna come up. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #7

We do not need lecture from white people on civil right protesting. bravenak Jul 2015 #20

I will not say I completely understand, SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #55

+1 Agschmid Jul 2015 #56

Thanks! bravenak Jul 2015 #59

Thank you. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #61

This is why I love you, bravenak! n/t freshwest Jul 2015 #112

Love you too!nt bravenak Jul 2015 #113

Then maybe this man will help. mmonk Jul 2015 #148

Do you not know you are patronizing me? An intelligent black woman? bravenak Jul 2015 #151

Then make your case, do not accuse. mmonk Jul 2015 #174

He cancelled his meeting with black lives matter. I cannot support that. bravenak Jul 2015 #176

I'm a supporter and also a member of the NC NAACP. mmonk Jul 2015 #182

He turned his back and walked away. That's bridge burning. bravenak Jul 2015 #183

I understand. mmonk Jul 2015 #191

Bernie cancelled after his the #BLM "disruption" of his talk? daredtowork Jul 2015 #208

I hope he changed his mind. I'd love to support him but cannot until he does better with BLM. bravenak Jul 2015 #213

OMG that's bad daredtowork Jul 2015 #216

It's still going on somewhat. bravenak Jul 2015 #217

lol, I might have to check that out. daredtowork Jul 2015 #220

I think we should give him a day or two. bravenak Jul 2015 #221

Just a clarification marym625 Jul 2015 #303

He needs to go now. It's necessary. bravenak Jul 2015 #310

The poster is just voicing and opinion not lecturing. The person has based his opinion on his still_one Jul 2015 #230

I wasn't saying they were. bravenak Jul 2015 #231

got it. Thanks still_one Jul 2015 #232

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #250

For you, bravenak. sheshe2 Jul 2015 #302

Thank you. They made me HOT!!!! bravenak Jul 2015 #311

Exactly. I have every right to talk about my candidate's track record. cui bono Jul 2015 #115

+1 orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #128

bravenak has brought up Hillary's 2007-2008 race baiting a number of times in comments I've seen. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #172

"crybabies who whine that their guy/gal marched with Dr. king or marched in a protest or blah blah" cui bono Jul 2015 #116

I'll tell you why. bravenak Jul 2015 #117

Why do you dismiss Sander's stance as only what he did 50 years ago? cui bono Jul 2015 #121

I also did not like how he handled himself today. bravenak Jul 2015 #123

The thing is he is fighting for social justice all the time and he has been speaking about it cui bono Jul 2015 #126

Good night! bravenak Jul 2015 #142

Any politician would have cancelled a meeting jfern Jul 2015 #129

No, "any politician" would not have cancelled the meeting afterward. Martin O'Malley didn't. Cha Jul 2015 #138

No. Martin did not cancel. bravenak Jul 2015 #141

Bravnak, Your condolences when I was kicked out of AA meant the world to me, but your anger for orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #136

That was not a CONDOLENCE!! I don't need this. bravenak Jul 2015 #139

This message was self-deleted by its author orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #153

Yes, you are hurt. What do you think we feel like when we are treated like the enemy? My family jwirr Jul 2015 #193

I don't think you have it as hard as the average black woman. bravenak Jul 2015 #195

Yes, I read those posts also. I really do not have a choice about who I care for - the people in jwirr Jul 2015 #197

Feeling a bit like a political football right now, bravenak? LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #255

Yes. I feel like a pawn. bravenak Jul 2015 #259

Embrace the power. LiberalAndProud Jul 2015 #260

I need to side jump a Queen. :) bravenak Jul 2015 #261

Berrie's candidacy is a tiny seedling challenging Goliath, easy to destroy it when it's young lostnfound Jul 2015 #283

I am now joining you in having no candidate. MohRokTah Jul 2015 #144

I will join you in waiting for the person who addresses this issue. I'm still pissed. bravenak Jul 2015 #145

LOL. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #146

You, as an African American, don't own the civil rights movement. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #147

I own it more than you. bravenak Jul 2015 #149

No, you don't. Nor do you get to rewrite history. Bernie was there. Hillary wasn't! nt Romulox Jul 2015 #150

Obviously I do. It's apparent. Do you own the black civil rights movement more than I? bravenak Jul 2015 #152

No, it's not obvious, even a little bit. The history stands. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #154

Obtuse. bravenak Jul 2015 #156

No, I just disagree with you. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #157

Yes. Because you're wrong. You can stop posting to me now. bravenak Jul 2015 #158

You also don't control who posts. Becoming silly. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #159

Still at it, eh? I'm feeling abused. bravenak Jul 2015 #160

You're abused because I'm posting a disagreement? That's odd. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #161

Stop heckling me!!! Waaaah!!! I was trying to give a speech!!!nt bravenak Jul 2015 #162

The analogy falls apart because DU is a *conversation*, not a *speech*. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #164

So rude and disruptive the way you keep heckling me. bravenak Jul 2015 #165

This was a bizarre exchange, to say the least! nt Romulox Jul 2015 #265

That poster was rude, bombastic, insulting... You handled it with class. boston bean Jul 2015 #163

I'm feeling a bit heckled here. bravenak Jul 2015 #167

If I ran the place, the banhammer would have fallen in an instant. boston bean Jul 2015 #168

Seriously. bravenak Jul 2015 #170

a-yup! that is the mindset that is being dealt with. boston bean Jul 2015 #171

You want to ban me because of what I've posted to *you* though. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #270

What are you talking about? boston bean Jul 2015 #271

Your memory *sure* is short, eh? Romulox Jul 2015 #273

no, your posts to me were so insignificant that I never gave it a second thought. boston bean Jul 2015 #274

Nobody (not even you) believes that. This was a tacky display on your part, Romulox Jul 2015 #276

Happens a lot that posts that discuss misogyny and sexism on DU are locked. boston bean Jul 2015 #277

I guess you remember, now? nt Romulox Jul 2015 #280

You seem to be weirdly pre-occupied with me. boston bean Jul 2015 #279

I was responding to your call for my banning. Talk about pot meeting kettle! nt Romulox Jul 2015 #281

Well, if I did run the place, I would have. boston bean Jul 2015 #286

Nobody would frequent a forum where you ran the place, though. Romulox Jul 2015 #288

umm, you're in a bunch of threads responding to me. So, I've taken the liberty boston bean Jul 2015 #289

This is the second one. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #290

good for you for keeping track... see what I mean about a weird pre-occupation?? boston bean Jul 2015 #292

Is it possible for an anonymous internet poster to be "heckled"? brentspeak Jul 2015 #301

You forgot racist. KitSileya Jul 2015 #233

Good thing you didn't! nt Romulox Jul 2015 #269

Feelings still hurt, huh? nt Romulox Jul 2015 #266

Awesome. zappaman Jul 2015 #207

Oh boy - this was what you were talking about JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #278

Yes!! Can you believe this? bravenak Jul 2015 #284

I believe it because I did a little searching this morning JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #293

Seriously? Lilith Rising Jul 2015 #186

Yes, seriously. Bernie's history is what it is. As is Hillary's. Nobody can change that. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #267

Out of line. Agschmid Jul 2015 #251

She gave better than she got. I think she's ok. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #268

Where precisely, was possession directly implied? LanternWaste Jul 2015 #300

So when you are out there marching you do not want our support. Because Dr. King did. And many jwirr Jul 2015 #189

See where you went? Damn. I did not expect this from you. I'm hurt. bravenak Jul 2015 #192

I am sorry that I made you feel that way. I can understand why you feel that way about the past. jwirr Jul 2015 #196

I understand how you feel about Hillary, since I pretty much feel the same. bravenak Jul 2015 #198

I agree. And the employment argument is to the point. Hiring a staffer is different than just a jwirr Jul 2015 #200

I'm a Bernista, and I get it 99th_Monkey Jul 2015 #2

They all need to "bone up" I've been unimpressed by all 3 up to this point. Agschmid Jul 2015 #3

^^THIS^^ SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #75

I just watched live stream of Bernie in Pheonix. He totally listened, and 'got it" 99th_Monkey Jul 2015 #82

If he listens, SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #83

What's the rumor about him cancelling a meeting with the #BlackLivesMovement group? daredtowork Jul 2015 #218

As much as I look for it nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #224

+1,000 malaise Jul 2015 #124

+ 1000 Well Put !!!!!! orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #132

What's Hillarys plan? HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #4

This... Agschmid Jul 2015 #6

BLM had a meeting scheduled with Sanders. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #10

Again patronizing... Agschmid Jul 2015 #12

Alert if you like. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #17

Not going to alert, I'm just frustrated by your response. Agschmid Jul 2015 #19

You don't think its low class for a NRN employee to set up an ambush? HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #24

Send me the link for this I haven't seen it posted anywhere, once I read it I'll get back to you... Agschmid Jul 2015 #26

Elon James White, Media Director for NRN HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #46

This is frustrating to see. Agschmid Jul 2015 #85

I went to the link and have all the tweets. Nothing abour bragging or a set up: freshwest Jul 2015 #109

Those tweets were after the fact, and it was well known that this was a plan. boston bean Jul 2015 #166

Where does that say that he knew ahead of time and bragged about it in advance? George II Jul 2015 #239

. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #240

THAT? How do you know he wasn't referring to people in the audience who were there... George II Jul 2015 #241

Yea, right <rolleyes> HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #245

And how do you know all of this? It's pure conjecture steeped in "conspiracy theory" and.... George II Jul 2015 #247

He made the tweets. They're time-stamped in advance. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #248

And NOWHERE did he say there was a hijack coming. It's a faux conspiracy. George II Jul 2015 #249

This right here is why black folks on this board are leery of Sanders and his supporters. bravenak Jul 2015 #23

What is productive about disrupting allies? HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #28

Indeed what is productive about disrupting allies, it's a great damn question Agschmid Jul 2015 #29

It gets the message out. Makes people say Black lives matter. bravenak Jul 2015 #31

Attacking your would-be allies is no way to get the message out. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #60

Why would I bother with Republicans? You want black folks to try their luck with Republicans? bravenak Jul 2015 #68

Well, if they are pissed at Democrats... HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #79

Look up the word empathy okay? Really though. bravenak Jul 2015 #84

I totally empathize with BLMs cause, 1000%. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #88

Oh I get it. Was is disgusting and self defeating when Code Pink did it to Condi? bravenak Jul 2015 #91

Was Condi an ally of Code Pink? HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #94

They were the most productive thing at Netroots. bravenak Jul 2015 #95

I am sure there wasn't a single person there unaware of the issue beforehand. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #97

Does your Facebook feed have lots of black people in it? bravenak Jul 2015 #98

About 10%. And about 90% liberal. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #99

Ten percent? Very small amount. bravenak Jul 2015 #100

It's about the demographics of my area. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #101

Yeah, it's facebook. Not all of my facebook friends live here in Anchorage. bravenak Jul 2015 #102

BLM had an opportunity to talk face to face. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #105

Really? That sounds stupid. bravenak Jul 2015 #108

Talking to others, what I mean. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #110

He'd better get his talk on quick. bravenak Jul 2015 #111

Yes and my feed is all about the crazy weather we had yesterday nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #210

What did Code Pink accomplish? HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #103

Made people pay attention. bravenak Jul 2015 #104

Who wasn't paying attention? HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #106

Most of America. bravenak Jul 2015 #107

Sanders had a meeting scheduled with BLM jfern Jul 2015 #133

He CANCELLED! Now that can really really say he doesn't give a shit. bravenak Jul 2015 #140

This message was self-deleted by its author nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #35

Just wondering why some think the 2007 candidate of "hardworking people, white people" eridani Jul 2015 #41

I have no idea. Seriously. I cannot like her. bravenak Jul 2015 #54

Demographics 1939 Jul 2015 #175

So demographics is now more relvant than dog whistle politics? eridani Jul 2015 #203

What are you talking about? 1939 Jul 2015 #223

You are sayng that the dog whistler would be better for people of color eridani Jul 2015 #234

There was no debate at the NRN. Just a planned ambush and disruption. PatrickforO Jul 2015 #69

You need an empathy infusion. bravenak Jul 2015 #71

"Maybe Sanders needs to hire some black people to explain it to him." SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #77

I really think it's a good idea. I keep repeating it just in case somebody decides to tell him 4 me. bravenak Jul 2015 #78

Well, the Houston event is looking really diverse, SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #81

How can that post make you leary of Sanders? What did he have to do with it? cui bono Jul 2015 #119

Rude and patronizing, that's why. bravenak Jul 2015 #120

But that has nothing to do with Bernie. cui bono Jul 2015 #122

I did not like Hillary supporters last time and I truely think it has had a long term effect on my bravenak Jul 2015 #125

I am a Sanders supporter. I like you. I think that Sander's version of economic justice Ed Suspicious Jul 2015 #188

I think the best thing for him right now would be to spend alot of time with those protestors. bravenak Jul 2015 #194

Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #131

I think her plan jfern Jul 2015 #130

Oh, it's absolutely gotten Scootaloo Jul 2015 #5

First, this belongs in Primaries nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #8

This isn't about any candidate... Agschmid Jul 2015 #11

Who said they should? Though many of my local leaders nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #13

No, it belongs right here. zappaman Jul 2015 #62

Waiting for Nadin to now say "Hey 2 people think it should be in GD"... Agschmid Jul 2015 #76

Black lives matter discussion belongs in GD. boston bean Jul 2015 #169

No one has sent a SOP alert... Agschmid Jul 2015 #178

well, you never know. she may have been trying to plant the seed boston bean Jul 2015 #179

Yup. Agschmid Jul 2015 #181

Wrong. I don't play those shitty games nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #199

Still not one single SOP alert. Agschmid Jul 2015 #226

I do not alert nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #235

You absolutelty have a right to your opinion, as do I. Agschmid Jul 2015 #236

I will not participate in a broken system nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #237

Yup I get it. Agschmid Jul 2015 #238

Of course they are angry. But that anger needs to be channeled to BillZBubb Jul 2015 #9

Agreed. You don't play your allies like adversaries. DinahMoeHum Jul 2015 #47

If this is related to the distrupting of the O'Malley/Sanders rally romanic Jul 2015 #14

There's no agenda here except that the #BLM should be heard, and if this is what takes... Agschmid Jul 2015 #16

Well then BLM needs to go to a GOP rally romanic Jul 2015 #22

Here is the deal we've had a Democratic President for well on 6+ years now... Agschmid Jul 2015 #25

Fair enough. romanic Jul 2015 #27

Then they should take up the problem with Obama... HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #33

If they're even brave enough to deal with the Republicans romanic Jul 2015 #34

Obama should have demanded Holder's resignation TexasBushwhacker Jul 2015 #209

I agree 100% HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #214

You must be reading Reporting San Diego nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #215

Absolutely TexasBushwhacker Jul 2015 #219

The problem is that most press is not covering this aspect nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #222

I would dearly love to see that. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #87

That is pure BS. They are being heard all right, who didn't hear them snagglepuss Jul 2015 #262

Sure that might work... Agschmid Jul 2015 #263

It's more than being angry, no one is owed a vote gwheezie Jul 2015 #15

This... Agschmid Jul 2015 #18

The disorder that occurred during the '68 Convention resulted in Nixon oasis Jul 2015 #63

You can understand somesones anger... Lancero Jul 2015 #21

That's spin and totally untrue..we know why they're angry, he'll we're angry too! haikugal Jul 2015 #30

My post is spin? Agschmid Jul 2015 #32

Is Sanders responsible? HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #36

I don't see it as rude, sorry. Agschmid Jul 2015 #39

Disrupting and tweeting only works to a point. romanic Jul 2015 #43

If it quacks like a duck... romanic Jul 2015 #37

Unwarranted police violence against African Americans is "spin"... Agschmid Jul 2015 #40

Now you're putting words in my mouth. romanic Jul 2015 #44

Nice edit... Agschmid Jul 2015 #49

I just get angry when some use deaths in the black community by police romanic Jul 2015 #52

Ammo for what? Agschmid Jul 2015 #53

I'm not entertaining you anymore. romanic Jul 2015 #57

Seriously... Agschmid Jul 2015 #58

Good to know that now two people said this belongs in GD-P nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #64

This isn't about a candidate, the fact that some people can't have a discussion without that... Agschmid Jul 2015 #65

And it was aimed nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #72

Okay. Agschmid Jul 2015 #74

Project much? haikugal Jul 2015 #48

You said people here don't know why BLM is angry... haikugal Jul 2015 #42

No I don't "get it" and it wasn't spin. Agschmid Jul 2015 #45

You're saying we don't get it when we do. You're spinning like a top. haikugal Jul 2015 #50

Goodbye. Agschmid Jul 2015 #51

Police Violence Is Real kcjohn1 Jul 2015 #38

This message was self-deleted by its author Peregrine Took Jul 2015 #66

You know, I've been doing my best to process what went down at the Netroots forum ever since it scarletwoman Jul 2015 #67

This ^^^^^^^^^^^ bravenak Jul 2015 #70

YES. Agschmid Jul 2015 #73

It's a very brave act. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #80

Yes! Agschmid Jul 2015 #86

+1000. jen63 Jul 2015 #92

Well said ibegurpard Jul 2015 #96

+a million. And when 'progressive' Dems stop listening to their most loyal base, they lose. freshwest Jul 2015 #114

Awesome post! gollygee Jul 2015 #143

Yup. Agschmid Jul 2015 #180

+1000 boston bean Jul 2015 #173

Yes! It needs to be done more, not less!! MerryBlooms Jul 2015 #177

Yes! Exactly and thank you. Lilith Rising Jul 2015 #184

this is real talk. Quayblue Jul 2015 #190

Transgression against the powerful is powerful. Let's see this and more to the establishment TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #225

K&R for being absolutely right... giftedgirl77 Jul 2015 #227

Life in America is unpleasant Prism Jul 2015 #243

Marvelous. Well said. Number23 Jul 2015 #264

I don't understand why white people aren't angry. intheflow Jul 2015 #89

Can't speak for the rest of us, but SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #90

All right, then! intheflow Jul 2015 #93

I'm pissed off, too, Blue_In_AK Jul 2015 #314

No reminder is needed for me. TM99 Jul 2015 #118

Thanks for this post JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #134

Interrupting this thread to report on Clinton JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #127

Clinton doesn't give a shit about progressives or BLM jfern Jul 2015 #135

I wouldn't call it a firing squad JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #137

Nobody should ever even try MuseRider Jul 2015 #155

^^^THIS^^^ SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #185

Don't get why BLM is angry? So now we are all the enemy? I have no problem understanding jwirr Jul 2015 #187

. haikugal Jul 2015 #202

I pointed to Bravenak in particular what is happening here in San Diego. nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #204

Your last sentence is one of the reasons I like Bernie. If there is anything he would know because jwirr Jul 2015 #211

Yup, he went to college at a time when quotas were quite overt nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #212

+1000 HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #246

THANK YOU Skittles Jul 2015 #252

The protestors were not turning us into "enemies". They were challenging us to prove scarletwoman Jul 2015 #253

I know that but IMO it backfired. He was answering their questions and they just yelled louder. If jwirr Jul 2015 #254

Honestly, the only people I'm feeling alienated from are the ones criticising BLM for what they did scarletwoman Jul 2015 #257

Listen to what romanic Jul 2015 #256

Really? stranger81 Jul 2015 #305

I'm sorry, I simply can't think of anything to say in the face of such massive cluelessness. scarletwoman Jul 2015 #306

I'm sorry, but those statements make it very clear who perceives whom as their enemy. stranger81 Jul 2015 #307

My apologies. I will endeavor to come more to the point: scarletwoman Jul 2015 #308

And you prove my point in under three posts. stranger81 Jul 2015 #309

worthy of its own thread Skittles Jul 2015 #313

Thank you for expressing that so well. Blue_In_AK Jul 2015 #315

And to think... people on here don't get why #BLM is angry? Stellar Jul 2015 #201

"...just 'talking' won't do it"? JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2015 #205

Discussion will eventually solve this issue... Agschmid Jul 2015 #228

None of the Democratic candidates measure up for the hyper-radicals. What a shocker. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #206

People here know why BLM is angry. What the problem is, you don't invite people to a town hall and still_one Jul 2015 #229

I don't think anyone here doesn't understand why #BLM is angry, but hughee99 Jul 2015 #242

Yes, that is the question. Wish we could get an answer other than we do not understand. mmonk Jul 2015 #244

Bingo. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #272

I don't see any evidence BLM is mad at Bernie. Only Hillary supporters insinuate he is a racist. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #282

Then you haven't been seeing what the leaders of the moment said mmonk Jul 2015 #285

link? nt Romulox Jul 2015 #287

It's all over the internet. Would take quite awhile to gather it mmonk Jul 2015 #294

I don't doubt you, but it's hard to quantify that. nt Romulox Jul 2015 #295

I understand but I'm bowing out of the whole thing. It was a statement protest mmonk Jul 2015 #298

And they did not say he was racist. They said he doesn't care about the issue. mmonk Jul 2015 #297

and THAT just seems to fly right over soooooo many heads Skittles Jul 2015 #312

Let's hope that NY's Governor Cuomo will start a trend fadedrose Jul 2015 #258

I keep asking ... ananda Jul 2015 #275

It's time for massive protests. Force the leaders in office Autumn Jul 2015 #291

Well said JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #296

Yes. mmonk Jul 2015 #299

Yes! Agschmid Jul 2015 #304