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In reply to the discussion: Pope Francis ignites a revolt that will overthrow American capitalism [View all]pnwmom
(110,237 posts)48. The Pope/Vatican still won't own Notre Dame or any of the other valuable properties they don't own now.
And there have already been orders of nuns that left the Church and took their property with them. It has happened and could happen again.
http://pulitzercenter.org/reporting/vatican-city-jason-berry-holy-see-looming-inquisition-reveals-fractured-catholic-church
In the early 1950s, Holy Wisdom Monastery was a Catholic girls school run by the Sisters of St. Benedict. In time, the school closed, and in 1966 the sisters, spurred on by the reformist ideals of the Second Vatican Council, transformed it into a retreat center, one that thrived in the confident spirit of a church opening its windows to the modern world the metaphor used by Pope John XXIII in summoning the worlds bishops to the council in Rome.
In the 1990s, the nuns there established a strong interfaith spirit, they undertook a rigorous environmental effort toward sustainability and they welcomed gay couples into the church and its services. By the year 2000, the nuns transformed the monastery into an ecumenical institution, welcoming a Presbyterian woman minister. And that was the point at which they crossed an irreversible line. Having a Protestant woman ministering in the community threw their identity as a Catholic womens order into question.
The sisters decided to leave the diocese and end their formal affiliation with the Catholic Church. As they saw it, they were maintaining the monastic ideal of Benedictine spirituality by opening the place to others. In the process of leaving the Catholic Church, the nuns made their own power move, of sorts. They held onto the deed to the land with the position that their faith community was true to the interfaith spirit of Vatican II. Their message, though never formally stated, was sledgehammer blunt: the male hierarchy has gone backwards and were moving forward. They quite literally held their ground.
In the 1990s, the nuns there established a strong interfaith spirit, they undertook a rigorous environmental effort toward sustainability and they welcomed gay couples into the church and its services. By the year 2000, the nuns transformed the monastery into an ecumenical institution, welcoming a Presbyterian woman minister. And that was the point at which they crossed an irreversible line. Having a Protestant woman ministering in the community threw their identity as a Catholic womens order into question.
The sisters decided to leave the diocese and end their formal affiliation with the Catholic Church. As they saw it, they were maintaining the monastic ideal of Benedictine spirituality by opening the place to others. In the process of leaving the Catholic Church, the nuns made their own power move, of sorts. They held onto the deed to the land with the position that their faith community was true to the interfaith spirit of Vatican II. Their message, though never formally stated, was sledgehammer blunt: the male hierarchy has gone backwards and were moving forward. They quite literally held their ground.
Here's something else you might not know if you haven't studied church history. The Church is barred by the Concordat that established Vatican City from selling off the artworks held there. They are essentially kept in trust there for the benefit of all Europe.
And I'd rather they keep those artworks safe and open for public viewing than sell them to the Trumps and Kochs of the world.
http://caritasetveritas.com/2013/03/the-myth-of-vatican-wealth-on-helping-the-poor/
Vatican City as its own independent nation state was created through a concordat with Italy in 1929 (the Lateran Concordat), which made Vatican City the smallest territorial state in the world. Article 18 of that concordat states the following: The artistic and scientific treasures existing within the Vatican City and the Lateran Palace shall remain open to scholars and visitors, although the Holy See shall be free to regulate the admission of the public thereto (you can read the concordat online here: http://biblelight.net/treaty.htm). The Holy See would automatically violate its right to be sovereign if it overstepped these bounds. That is, since the property, art, etc., are seen to be the patrimony of all of Europe, and the Italian state obviously has concern for it, Italy would be well within its legal rights to take the Vatican back should the pope ever try to sell the Vatican property or artistic (etc.) patrimony (each part of which is officially labeled as worth one euro each)which the pope cannot legally do.
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the catholic church is a capitalist institution. is he going to over throw himself lol nt
msongs
Jul 2015
#4
Unfortunately his homophobia and sexism has remained consistent before and after his election.
AtheistCrusader
Jul 2015
#39
The Pope/Vatican still won't own Notre Dame or any of the other valuable properties they don't own now.
pnwmom
Jul 2015
#48
Can't you people understand that sex isn't everything? It's not even anywhere
Joe Chi Minh
Jul 2015
#117
What a vile, disgusting post. LGBT human rights are not a 'bedroom hobby horse' no matter what
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#134
You see it here, right? This is a parallel to what is happening with some white straight
stevenleser
Jul 2015
#144
"You people"? Can't *you* understand the importance of reproductive freedom in relation
PeaceNikki
Jul 2015
#138
His encyclical is a long raft of bullshit he will not follow up with action wrapped around anti
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#55
I'm not a Catholic either, but we need all the help we can get to save the planet.
Koinos
Jul 2015
#32
And yet the Vatican won't even divest of carbon stocks, they just bullshit people with rhetoric
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#19
The head of a bank will overthrow capitalism? Let me sit the fuck down....nt
msanthrope
Jul 2015
#24
Pope Francis' speech in Bolivia where he referred to capitalism as the "dung of the devil."
Koinos
Jul 2015
#27
Wow, I just read your post about inheriting a bunch of wealth, so you are another of the affluent
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#57
He will not answer. On DU, many of the people who employ socialist rhetoric are wealthy, they say
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#135
He's a preacher. All Popes preach. Benedict preached about globalization and poverty too.
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#136
Oh, please. U.S. Politicians are not shivering with fear over this Pope. The U.S. Bishops...
Moonwalk
Jul 2015
#112
Did everyone ignore that Francis attacked abortion in his rant against capitalism?
Deadshot
Jul 2015
#75
Do the people in this thread know the difference between a business and nonprofit?
LittleBlue
Jul 2015
#77
It's obvious that most of his commments about the environment, about the Poor,
sabrina 1
Jul 2015
#104
So then when he rails against the rights of LGBT and reproductive justice, who is that 'aimed at'?
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#137
Yeah, I don't notice the Vatican giving away all that gold that's in their basement.
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2015
#113
Don't forget to send a letter to Speaker Boehner thanking him for inviting Francis to speak to
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#140