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In reply to the discussion: First they came for ConsortiumNews, and I did not speak out— [View all]Octafish
(55,745 posts)457. Are you really puzzled or are you using that as a rhetorical device?
If the latter, you make a point that's banal: ConsortiumNews is still operational.
If the former, you must have missed the Tag Team attacks above on this thread and on just about every post referring to ConsortiumNews' coverage of the war in Ukraine.

Guiding Obama into Global Make-Believe
Exclusive: The Orwellian concept of information warfare holds that propaganda can break down enemies and decide geopolitical outcomes, a strategy that has taken hold of the U.S. governments approach to international crises, especially the Ukraine showdown, as ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern explains.
By Ray McGovern
ConsortiumNews, March 14, 2015
CIA Director John Brennan told TV host Charlie Rose on Friday that, on assuming office, President Barack Obama did not have a good deal of experience in intelligence-related matters, adding with remarkable condescension that now he has gone to school and understands the complexities.
If thats the case, I would strongly suggest that Obama switch schools. Judging from his foreign policy teams inept and increasingly dangerous actions regarding Ukraine and the endless stream of dubious State Department and senior military cry-wolf accusations of a Russian invasion, Obama might be forgiven for being confused by the complexities.
He should not be forgiven, though, if he remains too timid to bench his current foreign policy team and find more substantively qualified, trustworthy advisers without axes to grind. He is, after all, President. Has he no managerial skill no guts?
This U.S. pattern of exaggeration making scary claims about Ukraine without releasing supporting evidence has even begun to erode the unity of the NATO alliance where Germany, in particular, is openly criticizing the Obama administrations heavy-handed use of propaganda in its information warfare against Russia.
The German magazine Der Spiegel has just published a highly unusual article critical of the NATO military commander, Air Force General Philip Breedlove, entitled Breedloves Bellicosity: Berlin Alarmed by Aggressive NATO Stance on Ukraine.
It is becoming clearer day by day that the Germans are losing patience with unsupported and alarmist U.S. statements on Ukraine, particularly in the current delicate period when a fledgling ceasefire in eastern Ukraine seems to be holding tenuously.
The Spiegel story was sourced to German officials who say Breedlove and his breed are making stuff up, adding that the BND (the CIA equivalent in Germany) did not share Breedloves extreme assessment of Russian actions. Spiegel continued:
For months now, many in the Chancellery simply shake their heads each time NATO, under Breedloves leadership, goes public with striking announcements about Russian troop or tank movements. False claims and exaggerated accounts, warned a top German official during a recent meeting on Ukraine, have put NATO and by extension, the entire West in danger of losing its credibility.
Scaring the Europeans
The Obama administrations erratic and bellicose approach to Ukraine caused German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande to take matters into their own hands in February to press for a ceasefire and an agreement on how to resolve the crisis politically, rather than following the U.S. strategy of having the regime in Kiev escalate its anti-terrorist operation against ethnic Russian rebels in the east who are supported by Moscow.
Fearing the conflict was spinning out of control with the prospects of a showdown between nuclear-armed Russia and the United States on Russias border Merkel traveled to the White House on Feb. 9 seeking assurances from President Obama that he would not fall in line behind his tough-talking aides and members of Congress who want advanced weaponry for Ukraine.
Though Obama reportedly assured Merkel that he would resist the pressure, he continues to keep slip-sliding into line behind the war hawks and letting his subordinates feed the propaganda fires that could lead to a more dangerous war, especially Gen. Breedlove and Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland, a former adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney.
In testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on March 4, 2015, Nuland presented her usual black-and-white depiction of the Ukrainian civil war, claiming Russia had manufactured a conflict controlled by the Kremlin, fueled by Russian tanks and heavy equipment. She added that Crimea and eastern Ukraine live under a Reign of Terror.
Of course, the core problem with how Nuland and pretty much the entire U.S. establishment present the Ukraine crisis is that they ignore how it got started. Nuland, Sen. John McCain and other U.S. officials egged on western Ukrainians to destabilize and overthrow the elected President Viktor Yanukovych, whose political base was in the south and east, including Crimea.
The coup opened historic fissures in this deeply divided country where hatreds between the more European-oriented west and the ethnic Russian east go back many generations, including the unspeakable slaughter during World War II when some western Ukrainians joined with the Nazis to fight the Red Army and exterminate Jews and other minorities.
Despite the U.S. claims over the past year about unprovoked Russian aggression, Russian President Vladimir Putin was not the instigator of the conflict, but rather he was reacting to a violent regime change on his border and to Russian fears that NATO would seize the historic Russian naval base at Sevastopol in Crimea.
But Nuland and other neocon hardliners have never been interested in a nuanced presentation of reality. Instead, they have treated Ukraine as if it were a testing ground for the latest techniques in psychological or information warfare, although the propaganda is mostly aimed at the U.S. and European publics, getting them ready for more war.
Mocking Merkel
As for Merkel and her peace efforts, Nuland was overheard during a behind-closed-doors meeting of U.S. officials at a security conference in Munich last month disparaging the German chancellors initiative, calling it Merkels Moscow thing, according to Bild, a German newspaper, citing unnamed sources.
Another U.S. official went even further, the report said, calling it the Europeans Moscow bullshit.
The tough talk behind the soundproof doors at a conference room in the luxurious Bayerischer Hof hotel seemed to get the American officials, both diplomats and members of Congress, worked into a lather, according to the Bild account.
Nuland suggested that Merkel and Hollande cared only about the practical impact of the Ukrainian war on bread-and-butter issues of Europe: Theyre afraid of damage to their economy, counter-sanctions from Russia.
Another U.S. politician was heard adding: Its painful to see that our NATO partners are getting cold feet with particular vitriol directed toward German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen as defeatist because she supposedly no longer believed in a Kiev victory.
Sen. McCain talked himself into a rage, declaring History shows us that dictators always take more, whenever you let them. They cant be brought back from their brutal behavior when you fly to Moscow to them, just like someone once flew to this city, Munich, a reference to British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlains appeasement of Adolf Hitler.
According to the Bild story, Nuland laid out a strategy of countering Merkels diplomacy by using strident language to frame the Ukraine crisis in a way that stops the Europeans from backing down. We can fight against the Europeans, we can fight with rhetoric against them, Nuland reportedly said.
NATO Commander Breedlove was quoted as saying the idea of funneling more weapons to the Kiev government was to raise the battlefield cost for Putin, to slow down the whole problem, so sanctions and other measures can take hold.
Nuland interjected to the U.S. politicians present that Id strongly urge you to use the phrase defensive systems that we would deliver to oppose Putins offensive systems. But Breedlove left little doubt that these defensive weapons would help the Ukrainian government pursue its military objectives by enabling more effective concentration of fire.
Russian artillery is by far what kills most Ukrainian soldiers, so a system is needed that can localize the source of fire and repress it, Breedlove reportedly said. I wont talk about any anti-tank rockets, but we are seeing massive supply convoys from Russia into Ukraine. The Ukrainians need the capability to shut off this transport. And then I would add some small tactical drones.
Nulands Rhetoric
Before the Ukraine coup in February 2014, Nuland was overheard in a phone conversation with U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt discussing who should become the countrys new leaders Yats is the guy, she said about Arseniy Yatsenyuk who became the post-coup prime minister while also criticizing the less aggressive European approach with the pithy phrase, Fuck the EU.
Nulands tough-gal rhetoric continues, including her bellicose testimony before Congress this month, along with the alarmist (and unproven) reports from Gen. Breedlove, who claimed that well over a thousand combat vehicles, Russian combat forces, some of their most sophisticated air defense, battalions of artillery having been sent to the Donbass in eastern Ukraine.
The Nuland-Breedlove allies in Kiev are doing their part, too. Ukrainian military spokesman Andriy Lysenko recently claimed that around 50 tanks, 40 missile systems and 40 armored vehicles entered east Ukraines breakaway Luhansk region from Russia via the Izvaryne border crossing.
This rhetoric strategy follows the tried-and-true intelligence gambit known as the Mighty Wurlitzer, in which false and misleading information is blasted out by so many different sources like the pipes of an organ that the lies become believable just because of their repetition.
The Ukraine story has followed this pattern with dubious claims being made and repeated by U.S. and Ukrainian officials and then amplified by a credulous Western news media, persuading people who otherwise might know better even when supporting evidence is lacking.
Similarly, Official Washingtons chorus of loud demands for ignoring Merkel and sending sophisticated weapons to Ukraine continues to build with the latest member of the choir, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper.
On March 4, Clapper broke the important ethos of professional intelligence officers scrupulously avoiding policy advocacy when he told an audience in New York that the U.S. should arm the Ukrainians to bolster their resolve and bolster their morale that, you know, we are with them.
Clapper offered this endorsement as his personal opinion, but who cares about James Clappers personal opinion? He is Director of National Intelligence, for Gods sake, and his advocacy immediately raises questions about whether Clappers personal opinion will put pressure on his subordinates to shape intelligence analysis to please the boss.
We saw a possible effect of this recently when journalist Robert Parry contacted the DNIs office to get an updated briefing on what U.S. intelligence has concluded about who was at fault for shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014.
Blaming the Russians
In prepared testimony before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Assistant Secretary Nuland had insinuated that the Russians and the ethnic Russian rebels were to blame. She said, In eastern Ukraine, Russia and its separatist puppets unleashed unspeakable violence and pillage; MH-17 was shot down.
This may have been another example of Nuland using rhetoric to shape the debate, but it prompted Parry to ask the DNIs office about what evidence there was to support Nulands finger-pointing in this tragic incident that killed 298 people.
Kathleen Butler, a DNI spokesperson, insisted that the U.S. intelligence assessment on MH-17 had not changed since July 22, 2014, five days after the shoot-down when the DNIs office distributed a sketchy report suggesting Russian complicity based largely on what was available on social media.
Parry then sent a follow-up e-mail saying: are you telling me that U.S. intelligence has not refined its assessment of what happened to MH-17 since July 22, 2014? Butler responded: Yes. The assessment is the same. To which, Parry replied: Thats just not credible. [See Consortiumnews.coms US Intel Stands Pat on MH-17 Shoot-down.]
But the DNIs response does make sense if later U.S. intelligence analysis contradicted the initial rush to judgment by Secretary of State John Kerry and other senior officials blaming Russia and the rebels. The Obama administration might not want to surrender a useful propaganda club to bash Moscow, or as Nuland might say, an important piece of anti-Russian rhetoric.
As for Brennan and his appearance before the stuffy Council on Foreign Relations fielding questions posed by Charlie Rose as the presider, the CIA director seemed more concerned about the flak his agency has been getting for having a cloudy crystal ball and not anticipating how the Ukraine crisis would unfold, saying:
Now I know that many would like the CIA to predict the future answering questions such as will Crimea secede and be annexed by Russia and will Russian forces move into Eastern Ukraine. But the plain and simple truth is that virtually all events around the globe, future events including in Ukraine are shaped by numerous variables and yet-to-happen developments as well as leadership considerations and decisions.
But the prospect of CIA analysts seeing events clearly both understanding what may have caused an event in the past and perceiving the complex forces that may shape the future are diminished when the U.S. intelligence community becomes politicized and exploited for propaganda purposes, when it gets enlisted into information warfare.
Obama could surely use some experienced, mature help in putting an end to this potpourri of you-pick-your-favorite-statement about Russian aggression. The disarray and deceit on such an important issue does nothing to bolster confidence that he has been tutored well, that he understands the value of sober intelligence work, or that he is in control of U.S. foreign policy.
Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, a publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington. He worked primarily on Russian and European issues during his 27 years as a CIA analyst; he also prepared the Presidents Daily Brief for Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Reagan. He is now a member of the Steering Group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)
SOURCE w/links, details: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/14/guiding-obama-into-global-make-believe/
So, given the choice of only those two options, I'd say some DUers wouldn't want readers to learn that PNAC types are still playing major roles in the State Department, even to the point of undermining Sec. Kerry's work.
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"When Money is Speech..." and "Money Trumps Peace" (GWB).. there, I fixed that for you...
Ghost in the Machine
Jul 2015
#124
"Thank you for standing up for the good fight, Ghost in the Machine." Thank YOU, Octafish....
Ghost in the Machine
Jul 2015
#148
You're right about people waking up to the manipulation. I USED to think that
sabrina 1
Jul 2015
#512
No, ConsortiumNews is an excellent resource. For example, Ray McGovern on matters of high treason...
Octafish
Jul 2015
#14
That's just horse patooty. That story was WIDELY carried in the "regular" news media.
MADem
Jul 2015
#86
You can do your own homework--but here, let me show you just how MISTAKEN you are....
MADem
Jul 2015
#103
And some would alert, hide, lock and censor everyone that doesn't march to the "correct"
rhett o rick
Jul 2015
#206
Perfect. That emoticon really says it all. When all else fails you, ridicule. nm
rhett o rick
Jul 2015
#209
I doubt it--it will be pivot-turn-change subject. Anything save confront that his beloved website
MADem
Jul 2015
#387
No. Because they didn't mention Petraeus got off easy compared to CIA and Pentagon whistleblowers.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#134
Not exactly what he said, uhnope, but when you're smearing someone, that's the point.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#146
Do you guys have a name for this tactic? It isn't very politically liberal. nm
rhett o rick
Jul 2015
#210
Let's see, ConsortiumNews and CounterPunch could disappear tomorrow and I would toast the fact
Godhumor
Jul 2015
#3
Sorry you feel that way. In particular, I don't like some of the things I've read on CounterPunch.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#23
What's your problem with enenews? It's a great source for news on nuclear energy
FourScore
Jul 2015
#11
They don't write anything. They just link to other nuclear industry articles.
FourScore
Jul 2015
#28
Ugh. Now you're mincing words. They link to articles ABOUT the nuclear industry.
FourScore
Jul 2015
#45
Including this truth: coal ash adds vastly more environmental radioactivity than nuclear waste
ConservativeDemocrat
Jul 2015
#228
Because its less expensive to use uranium than to reprocess plutonium
ConservativeDemocrat
Jul 2015
#326
Speaking of dumbed-down, I don't remember you ever posting about the NAZIs on DU.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#41
Just pointing out your decade-long defense of Parry's psychotic break from reality
FBaggins
Jul 2015
#498
Incredible like the time the Tag Team got all worked up for me quoting a banned DUer?
Octafish
Jul 2015
#248
You mean where you cited a DUer banned for Holocaust denial to prove that another Holocaust denier
msanthrope
Jul 2015
#249
I'm fucking floored that the very simple message "Stop citing Holocaust deniers"
msanthrope
Jul 2015
#258
I never ascribe maliciousness to what can be explained by sheer stupidity......
msanthrope
Jul 2015
#261
I didn't claim you promoted anti-Semitism.....I said you cited Holocaust deniers.
msanthrope
Jul 2015
#271
261. ''I never ascribe maliciousness to what can be explained by sheer stupidity......''
Octafish
Jul 2015
#280
Then alert.....and any juror can Google your username, my username, and "shamir"
msanthrope
Jul 2015
#469
Thank you for proving that what was posted was in fact, correctly translated bullshit. nt
msanthrope
Jul 2015
#495
The call goes out and they come running. Emboldened by their friends. Not offering
rhett o rick
Jul 2015
#338
Thanks for posting. This is supposed to be a politically liberal message board
rhett o rick
Jul 2015
#340
No, of course not. And as far as I know Counterpunch hasn't been "banned."
The Velveteen Ocelot
Jul 2015
#106
First, they came for those who paraphrased Niemöller, and I did not speak out.... (nt)
Nye Bevan
Jul 2015
#43
yeah, wow. Maybe we should back off? Because they might really be clinical, literally (!)
uhnope
Jul 2015
#160
I guess when you've invested so much time defending the likes of Paul Craig Roberts...
SidDithers
Jul 2015
#34
The amount of times he jumps the shark, well, we should nickname him Fonzie. nt
stevenleser
Jul 2015
#60
It's almost like he did it right on cue. Few comedians have that kind of timing...
stevenleser
Jul 2015
#75
Yes, 6+ Million dead is exactly like people pointing out holes in your favored media's stories. (nt)
jeff47
Jul 2015
#46
Does CounterPunch's publishing right wing authors mean we can not trust their left wing writers?
Agnosticsherbet
Jul 2015
#101
CounterPunch has good and bad, some stuff I read, most I like I skim, and lots I skip.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#303
You are most welcome, Enthusiast! For Gary Webb and Media Manipulation, from Beverly Bandler...
Octafish
Jul 2015
#346
+1, thank you for that. One has to wonder about the current heroin epidemic.
Enthusiast
Jul 2015
#349
So much sounds so familiar, so often, that it has become deja vu all over again, again.
Enthusiast
Jul 2015
#399
You know he is going to now use that against you in the future as you admitting to being a paid
stevenleser
Jul 2015
#181
You would think so. The kinds of issues one would need to have... Well... Lest...
stevenleser
Jul 2015
#240
Great, but Parry reported Team PNAC, not President Obama, who push for war in Ukraine.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#241
RT airs interviews with former SEC regulator William K Black, whom the Bush-Obama DoJs ignored.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#191
That must be why I posted: Who enabled NAZI Germany to round up the Jews? Think IBM.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#190
"Trashing ConsortiumNews is just like gassing millions of innocent folk!"
struggle4progress
Jul 2015
#196
Henry Gonzalez: A Great American...was ready to fight E Howard Hunt, mano a mano.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#448
April Glaspie affair exposes pro- anti-BFEE divisions within the Establishment.
Octafish
Aug 2015
#518
I think that is why the message coming from 3 channels said something to me
dreamnightwind
Aug 2015
#522
I have been listing internet media that people should follow instead of the TV and
JDPriestly
Jul 2015
#235
I put that principle in action when I remember what Gen. George S. Patton said long ago...
Octafish
Jul 2015
#263
I guess there's no hope we'll ever find out the truth about chemtrails and UFOs
Major Nikon
Jul 2015
#247
You think associating me with them somehow damages my reputation? I stand behind them.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#255
A USAF guy I met mentioned he'd lose his pension if he answered my question about UFOs.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#304
I'm surprised they didn't use an EMP weapon on him just for saying that much
Major Nikon
Jul 2015
#306
Ah, the unnamed anonymous USAF guy. What command and unit was he in? What was his job? nt
stevenleser
Jul 2015
#348
Well that's your claim isn't it? That one of them told you something that broke their
stevenleser
Jul 2015
#398
No, actually. Here's how Rupert Murdoch helped maneuver America into war on Iraq.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#414
Propagandists are never wrong, and the people that say they are are just teaming up to silence them.
NuclearDem
Jul 2015
#301
No kidding. That's why I encourage people to read ConsortiumNews and CounterPunch...
Octafish
Jul 2015
#305
I'm sorry, but what military's basic training includes lessons on what is and isn't censorship?
NuclearDem
Jul 2015
#309
They worked it in between folding your drawers in a 6" square and making hospital corners
Major Nikon
Jul 2015
#310
All the usual characters who have always run interference on those who dare ask questions. nt
ChisolmTrailDem
Jul 2015
#290
Most important thing I've learned on DU: George Herbert Walker Bush in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#405
Good point. It was also mentioned upthread. Here's why even Putinasta-filled RT matters...
Octafish
Jul 2015
#376
Thank you! I don't want you to think what I think. I want you to think for yourself.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#430
K&R #112 Many are responsive to their perception managers, others are employees brother. n/t
bobthedrummer
Jul 2015
#381
No, UBS. You should know the Swiss bank received at least $100 billion from US taxpayers.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#441
Beware Cass Sunstein, who explained why DoJ must let Bush and Cheney off the hook, all legal-like.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#451
DU is already absurdly insular, conforming will just make it a mouthpiece.
NuttyFluffers
Jul 2015
#446
That's about the only reason worth putting up with the abuse of asshats and the emoticon army.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#452
Wish I said something when the asshats and emoticon brigade went after Will Pitt.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#462
Something never on TV: Nixon assigned a murderous Secret Service agent to protect Ted Kennedy.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#482
Shocking, yet fits perfectly with what we know of Nixon's paranoid tendencies.
robertpaulsen
Jul 2015
#509
Mass Media ignoring 'RFK Believed in Conspiracy' shows corrupt nature of America's Press
Octafish
Jul 2015
#499
Where did I post ''Holocaust nonsense'' that ''was just tasteless hyperbole'' NuclearDem?
Octafish
Aug 2015
#537
Invoking Rev. Niemoller after someone said something not nice about CP or CN
NuclearDem
Aug 2015
#538