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In reply to the discussion: First they came for ConsortiumNews, and I did not speak out— [View all]Octafish
(55,745 posts)518. April Glaspie affair exposes pro- anti-BFEE divisions within the Establishment.
Foreign Policy (Rockefeller, CFR, etc) on one hand promoted revisionist history that the liberals and non-warmonger set work to pile on Ms. Glaspie. Yet, FP also revealed that some of the scholars and statesmen and women are not willing to "play ball." That is good, for those who care about democracy.
WikiLeaks, April Glaspie, and Saddam Hussein
BY STEPHEN M. WALT
Foreign Policy, JANUARY 9, 2011
Im generally not inclined to take issue with my FP colleagues, but David Kenners recent posting on the WikiLeaks release of a cable recounting Saddam Husseins infamous meeting with U.S. ambassador April Glaspie deserves a response.
In an article headlined "Why One U.S. Diplomat Didnt Cause the Gulf War," Kenner argues that the new release shows that Glaspie should not be blamed for the U.S. failure to make a clear deterrent warning to Saddam. And that is what he accuses me and John Mearsheimer (and the Washington Post) of doing. In his words, "the Washington Post described her as the face of American incompetence in Iraq. Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer piled on in a 2003 article for Foreign Policy, arguing that Glaspies remarks unwittingly gave Iraq a green light to invade Kuwait."
I agree that the WikiLeaks release may exonerate Glaspie for being personally responsible for a diplomatic gaffe, but there are two problems with Kenners version of events.
First, we never accused Glaspie of diplomatic incompetence, and we certainly didnt "pile on." Heres what we actually said in our 2003 piece:
In a now famous interview with the Iraqi leader, U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie told Saddam, [W]e have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. The U.S. State Department had earlier told Saddam that Washington had no special defense or security commitments to Kuwait. The United States may not have intended to give Iraq a green light, but that is effectively what it did."
Notice that we offered no opinion on whether Glaspie was free-lancing, mis-reading Saddam, or simply following orders from Washington. Our article was focused on the issue of whether Saddam was deterrable, and the key issue that concerned us about the Glaspie meeting was whether she had conveyed a clear deterrent threat to Saddam, or whether she might have unintentionally given him reason to think he could go ahead and absorb Kuwait without facing a strong military response from the United States.
Second, a careful reading of the cable suggests that Saddam could have easily interpreted Glaspies conversation, along with other statements by U.S. officials, as a sign that the United States was not strongly committed to protecting Kuwait. For starters, the cable makes it clear that Saddam is at the end of his rope. He spends much of the conversation reciting a long list of grievances, and though his manner is described as "cordial, reasonable, and even warm," he repeatedly accuses the United States of having malign intentions toward Iraq. For example, the cable refers to one of his "main points" being that the "USG maneuvers with the UAE and Kuwait. . .[and] encouraged them in their ungenerous policies." And he makes it clear that his patience is not unlimited: "Iraqi rights, Saddam emphasized, will be restored one by one, thought it may take a month or much more than a year." He also speaks of the "pride" of Iraqis, whom he says believe in "liberty or death," and he warns that Iraq "will have to respond if the US uses these methods." He adds that "Iraq knows the USG can send planes and rockets and hurt Iraq deeply," but he "asks that the USG not force Iraq to the point of humiliation at which logic must be disregarded."
How does Glaspie respond to Saddams litany of grievances, complaints, and not-very-veiled threats?
Her very first point in response is to thank him for the opportunity to discuss these matters directly, and she then says that "President Bush, too, wants friendship." Her next point is to tell Saddam that "the President had instructed her to broaden and deepen our relations with Iraq," and she reminds Saddam that though "some circles" might oppose that policy, "the U.S. administration is instructed by the President." And then she adds that "what is important is that the President has very recently reaffirmed his desire for a better relationship" and he has shown that desire by opposing some sanctions bills.
In short, her initial response to Saddam is to try to reassure him of Americas friendly intentions, and to try to convince him that his suspicions are mistaken. It also seems clear that Glaspie is simply following the instructions she had been given.
CONTINUED...
http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/01/09/wikileaks-april-glaspie-and-saddam-hussein/
What Speaker Sam said holds today: "Those who go-along, get along."
And that's why I, too, save the old articles, dreamnightwind. The way things disappear down the Memory Hole, someone has to.
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"When Money is Speech..." and "Money Trumps Peace" (GWB).. there, I fixed that for you...
Ghost in the Machine
Jul 2015
#124
"Thank you for standing up for the good fight, Ghost in the Machine." Thank YOU, Octafish....
Ghost in the Machine
Jul 2015
#148
You're right about people waking up to the manipulation. I USED to think that
sabrina 1
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#512
No, ConsortiumNews is an excellent resource. For example, Ray McGovern on matters of high treason...
Octafish
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That's just horse patooty. That story was WIDELY carried in the "regular" news media.
MADem
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You can do your own homework--but here, let me show you just how MISTAKEN you are....
MADem
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#103
And some would alert, hide, lock and censor everyone that doesn't march to the "correct"
rhett o rick
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#206
Perfect. That emoticon really says it all. When all else fails you, ridicule. nm
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I doubt it--it will be pivot-turn-change subject. Anything save confront that his beloved website
MADem
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No. Because they didn't mention Petraeus got off easy compared to CIA and Pentagon whistleblowers.
Octafish
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Not exactly what he said, uhnope, but when you're smearing someone, that's the point.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#146
Do you guys have a name for this tactic? It isn't very politically liberal. nm
rhett o rick
Jul 2015
#210
Let's see, ConsortiumNews and CounterPunch could disappear tomorrow and I would toast the fact
Godhumor
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#3
Sorry you feel that way. In particular, I don't like some of the things I've read on CounterPunch.
Octafish
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#23
What's your problem with enenews? It's a great source for news on nuclear energy
FourScore
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They don't write anything. They just link to other nuclear industry articles.
FourScore
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#28
Ugh. Now you're mincing words. They link to articles ABOUT the nuclear industry.
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Including this truth: coal ash adds vastly more environmental radioactivity than nuclear waste
ConservativeDemocrat
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Because its less expensive to use uranium than to reprocess plutonium
ConservativeDemocrat
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Speaking of dumbed-down, I don't remember you ever posting about the NAZIs on DU.
Octafish
Jul 2015
#41
Just pointing out your decade-long defense of Parry's psychotic break from reality
FBaggins
Jul 2015
#498
Incredible like the time the Tag Team got all worked up for me quoting a banned DUer?
Octafish
Jul 2015
#248
You mean where you cited a DUer banned for Holocaust denial to prove that another Holocaust denier
msanthrope
Jul 2015
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I'm fucking floored that the very simple message "Stop citing Holocaust deniers"
msanthrope
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#258
I never ascribe maliciousness to what can be explained by sheer stupidity......
msanthrope
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#261
I didn't claim you promoted anti-Semitism.....I said you cited Holocaust deniers.
msanthrope
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#271
261. ''I never ascribe maliciousness to what can be explained by sheer stupidity......''
Octafish
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Then alert.....and any juror can Google your username, my username, and "shamir"
msanthrope
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#469
Thank you for proving that what was posted was in fact, correctly translated bullshit. nt
msanthrope
Jul 2015
#495
The call goes out and they come running. Emboldened by their friends. Not offering
rhett o rick
Jul 2015
#338
Thanks for posting. This is supposed to be a politically liberal message board
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#340
No, of course not. And as far as I know Counterpunch hasn't been "banned."
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First, they came for those who paraphrased Niemöller, and I did not speak out.... (nt)
Nye Bevan
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yeah, wow. Maybe we should back off? Because they might really be clinical, literally (!)
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I guess when you've invested so much time defending the likes of Paul Craig Roberts...
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The amount of times he jumps the shark, well, we should nickname him Fonzie. nt
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It's almost like he did it right on cue. Few comedians have that kind of timing...
stevenleser
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Yes, 6+ Million dead is exactly like people pointing out holes in your favored media's stories. (nt)
jeff47
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Does CounterPunch's publishing right wing authors mean we can not trust their left wing writers?
Agnosticsherbet
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CounterPunch has good and bad, some stuff I read, most I like I skim, and lots I skip.
Octafish
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You are most welcome, Enthusiast! For Gary Webb and Media Manipulation, from Beverly Bandler...
Octafish
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#346
+1, thank you for that. One has to wonder about the current heroin epidemic.
Enthusiast
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#349
So much sounds so familiar, so often, that it has become deja vu all over again, again.
Enthusiast
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#399
You know he is going to now use that against you in the future as you admitting to being a paid
stevenleser
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#181
You would think so. The kinds of issues one would need to have... Well... Lest...
stevenleser
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#240
Great, but Parry reported Team PNAC, not President Obama, who push for war in Ukraine.
Octafish
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#241
RT airs interviews with former SEC regulator William K Black, whom the Bush-Obama DoJs ignored.
Octafish
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#191
That must be why I posted: Who enabled NAZI Germany to round up the Jews? Think IBM.
Octafish
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"Trashing ConsortiumNews is just like gassing millions of innocent folk!"
struggle4progress
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#196
Henry Gonzalez: A Great American...was ready to fight E Howard Hunt, mano a mano.
Octafish
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#448
April Glaspie affair exposes pro- anti-BFEE divisions within the Establishment.
Octafish
Aug 2015
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I think that is why the message coming from 3 channels said something to me
dreamnightwind
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I have been listing internet media that people should follow instead of the TV and
JDPriestly
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I put that principle in action when I remember what Gen. George S. Patton said long ago...
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I guess there's no hope we'll ever find out the truth about chemtrails and UFOs
Major Nikon
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You think associating me with them somehow damages my reputation? I stand behind them.
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A USAF guy I met mentioned he'd lose his pension if he answered my question about UFOs.
Octafish
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I'm surprised they didn't use an EMP weapon on him just for saying that much
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Ah, the unnamed anonymous USAF guy. What command and unit was he in? What was his job? nt
stevenleser
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Well that's your claim isn't it? That one of them told you something that broke their
stevenleser
Jul 2015
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No, actually. Here's how Rupert Murdoch helped maneuver America into war on Iraq.
Octafish
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Propagandists are never wrong, and the people that say they are are just teaming up to silence them.
NuclearDem
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No kidding. That's why I encourage people to read ConsortiumNews and CounterPunch...
Octafish
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I'm sorry, but what military's basic training includes lessons on what is and isn't censorship?
NuclearDem
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They worked it in between folding your drawers in a 6" square and making hospital corners
Major Nikon
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#310
All the usual characters who have always run interference on those who dare ask questions. nt
ChisolmTrailDem
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Most important thing I've learned on DU: George Herbert Walker Bush in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963.
Octafish
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#405
Good point. It was also mentioned upthread. Here's why even Putinasta-filled RT matters...
Octafish
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#376
Thank you! I don't want you to think what I think. I want you to think for yourself.
Octafish
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K&R #112 Many are responsive to their perception managers, others are employees brother. n/t
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No, UBS. You should know the Swiss bank received at least $100 billion from US taxpayers.
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DU is already absurdly insular, conforming will just make it a mouthpiece.
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That's about the only reason worth putting up with the abuse of asshats and the emoticon army.
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Wish I said something when the asshats and emoticon brigade went after Will Pitt.
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Something never on TV: Nixon assigned a murderous Secret Service agent to protect Ted Kennedy.
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Shocking, yet fits perfectly with what we know of Nixon's paranoid tendencies.
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Mass Media ignoring 'RFK Believed in Conspiracy' shows corrupt nature of America's Press
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Where did I post ''Holocaust nonsense'' that ''was just tasteless hyperbole'' NuclearDem?
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Invoking Rev. Niemoller after someone said something not nice about CP or CN
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Aug 2015
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