General Discussion

dkf

(37,305 posts)

223. The injuries say to me that Martin was on the top with Zimmerman on the bottom screaming.

Sat May 19, 2012, 01:57 AM

May 2012

Cuts to Martin's knuckles with Zimmerman having the broken nose and cuts on the back of his head tell me it was Trayvon on top and Zimmerman on the bottom. I don't think it is plausible that Martin while on top punching Zimmerman is the one screaming for help, do you?

Zimmerman could not retreat and was in fear of his life. Martin on top was the only one who could retreat and he chose not to.

There were 14 screams for help I believe. But for some reason Martin felt he needed to keep punching.

I have no idea who started the altercation. I don't think we will ever prove that, much less beyond a reasonable doubt. But I do think that listening to the tape and the screams, we can conclude that person was in mortal fear and that seems the essence of SYG.

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The moment we've all been waiting for - pics of Zimmermans head wounds [View all] -..__... May 2012 OP

Well for some people even a birth certificate isn't enough. dkf May 2012 #1

wtf? maddezmom May 2012 #55

Are you saying Trayvon Martin, who was minding his own business, is not dead? sabrina 1 May 2012 #113

Apparently malaise May 2012 #134

This is about acknowledging that Zimmerman was injured in an incident with Martin. dkf May 2012 #203

Zimmerman's injuries - are they in the shape of bullet holes? Capt. Obvious May 2012 #215

No. But they exist contrary to many assertions that they were faked. dkf May 2012 #222

I never denied his injuries, I was just sorry he wasn't incapacitated being that he was sabrina 1 May 2012 #219

The injuries say to me that Martin was on the top with Zimmerman on the bottom screaming. dkf May 2012 #223

You've obviously never witnessed a fight. There is no proof that either one was on top sabrina 1 May 2012 #224

Zimmerman couldn't "retreat"? That's fuckin' rich since he is the one who was the threat Blue_Tires May 2012 #226

But but mactime May 2012 #2

Or Aerows May 2012 #92

my kid fell headfirst into a blackberry bush and looked worse than that Viva_La_Revolution May 2012 #3

hoookay. and this proves what exactly? dionysus May 2012 #4

That there was a struggle between the two. -..__... May 2012 #17

all it proves is their was a struggle. it doesnt prove who started what. dionysus May 2012 #23

and I see no evidence of a "broken nose" as they have claimed. Javaman May 2012 #87

me neither. dionysus May 2012 #229

... and it doesn't prove WHO caused those injuries, or WHEN. Myrina May 2012 #143

I see your not here to make buddies on DU on this topic Life Long Dem May 2012 #115

Oh Gosh Poor Poor You HangOnKids May 2012 #175

FFS nobody here has violated any of Zimmerman's goddamned rights Blue_Tires May 2012 #196

cool...now go dig up Martin's injuries and see how much of Zimmerman's account is disproved Blue_Tires May 2012 #121

Trayvon Martin stood his ground but the stalker with a gun still murdered him. aquart May 2012 #139

yep etherealtruth May 2012 #181

What it proves is that Trayvon Martin was facing a threat to his life, which he correctly sabrina 1 May 2012 #168

That shouldn't have taken place had Zimmerman kept his ass in the car and called police. CakeGrrl May 2012 #171

Zimmerman Engaged Martin Yavin4 May 2012 #5

That's news to me mactime May 2012 #9

I think the 911 tape disputes this maddezmom May 2012 #11

You aren't wrong. GoCubsGo May 2012 #26

That was the 911 dispatcher who has no authority in this matter. dkf May 2012 #29

that is not the point. maddezmom May 2012 #48

Exactly. GoCubsGo May 2012 #54

So, that makes it okay? GoCubsGo May 2012 #52

Wasn't GZ in violation of neighborhood watch rules? LiberalFighter May 2012 #70

Yes, and he wasn't suppose to carry a gun. Blue_Roses May 2012 #78

I'll just reuse this Capt. Obvious May 2012 #216

weird isn't it maddezmom May 2012 #47

He drove his car into the middle of a vehicle inaccessible courtyard? alcibiades_mystery May 2012 #16

the murder site jambo101 May 2012 #37

Well, your understanding is totally and utterly wrong. EOTE May 2012 #42

Yep! Didn't the 911 operator asked about that because he was breathing heavy? LiberalFighter May 2012 #74

He asked about it before, I believe. EOTE May 2012 #96

It's not news Aerows May 2012 #99

your understanding is incorrect. magical thyme May 2012 #105

that's what happens when fox is you main "news" source NatBurner May 2012 #106

would you mind clarifying WHERE you heard that? BlancheSplanchnik May 2012 #114

Amazingly, Zimmerman could have then DRIVEN AWAY. aquart May 2012 #141

Stop watching Fox "News" Doctor_J May 2012 #209

Stalking and attacking someone, then shooting him because you were losing? That's a lousy defense. Scuba May 2012 #6

+1 ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #8

Young black males are not allowed to be scared of creepy stalkers in darkened courtyards alcibiades_mystery May 2012 #20

What evidence is there that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon? True Earthling May 2012 #41

Trayvons screams for help uponit7771 May 2012 #60

Taryvon's father initially denied it was Trayvon's screams True Earthling May 2012 #77

there is no evidence to prove Martin attacked zimmerman noiretextatique May 2012 #83

Trayvon's girlfriend described Trayvon being chased True Earthling May 2012 #112

Wrong. "It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say" uppityperson May 2012 #177

I have no idea what GZ was thinking. Prosecutors are preparing evidence, not me. Scuba May 2012 #66

Uhm, Trayvon's dead body isn't enough evidence? Jamastiene May 2012 #172

+1, it was officialy stalking too uponit7771 May 2012 #59

Has Zimmerman been charged with that? ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #104

Nope sylvi May 2012 #194

So if JustAnotherGen May 2012 #7

If you are willing to risk getting shot, or arrested, you can do that to anyone at any time. slackmaster May 2012 #15

So JustAnotherGen May 2012 #40

Those ones from the back are old pictures. Starry Messenger May 2012 #10

agree maddezmom May 2012 #53

Oh, I could say why, but it would get my post hidden. Starry Messenger May 2012 #116

Nobody was paid to beat Zimmerman. Zimmerman's dad did it for free. slackmaster May 2012 #12

ok 2pooped2pop May 2012 #88

Good Post - well thought out. alittlelark May 2012 #185

thanks 2pooped2pop May 2012 #186

i read the article, and there is NO mention of WHEN these pictures were taken or who took them noiretextatique May 2012 #13

Clearly the provenance is important ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #80

And this means that Trayvon deserved to be killed by this man. Thank you Apologist. n/t vaberella May 2012 #14

I know. It's gotten to the point where I can't even stand to open these threads anymore. marmar May 2012 #18

Me too Blue_Tires May 2012 #201

'Deserved' has nothing to do with this, legally speaking. n/t cigsandcoffee May 2012 #21

Does "justified" make you feel better then?n/t vaberella May 2012 #45

We can at least say he never 'deserved' to be followed, "legally speaking" Blue_Tires May 2012 #192

some people love guns too much, don't they? dionysus May 2012 #24

Why does it mean that? Union Scribe May 2012 #28

Hardly the case. vaberella May 2012 #44

now we have the legal eagles noiretextatique May 2012 #89

Here's a pic supposedly taken just after the time of the alleged fight.. Fumesucker May 2012 #19

"YOU" would expect"... some of Martin's blood to be on Zimmerman's jacket.. -..__... May 2012 #34

So in your view who was on top during this struggle, Zimmerman or Martin? Fumesucker May 2012 #38

Why ask me? -..__... May 2012 #50

It's not an unreasonable extrapolation from your OP that you have formed an opinion.. Fumesucker May 2012 #57

So why did you even post this in the first place with the snark? Blue_Tires May 2012 #86

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #187

Which couldn't have been done in the 20 other threads...got it Blue_Tires May 2012 #191

20 other threads... is it that many? -..__... May 2012 #200

My mistake, then Blue_Tires May 2012 #202

I'll make an entry in my daily planner. -..__... May 2012 #205

Oh, Yeah. As If You Haven't Formed An Opinion On This Matter. Paladin May 2012 #100

you're not a forensics expert either, however I can only imagine you play one on television... LanternWaste May 2012 #51

Give me your honest opinion. -..__... May 2012 #56

why would anyone give you an opinion on anything when you won't when asked maddezmom May 2012 #79

My honest opinion is that... LanternWaste May 2012 #123

Give me your honest opinion. Blue_Tires May 2012 #206

You might be on to something there. -..__... May 2012 #210

You forgot the confederate flag... Blue_Tires May 2012 #213

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #217

i caught jury duty for this SwampG8r May 2012 #221

Interesting that this didn't show in the BlueToTheBone May 2012 #22

The kid was defending his life against an armed thug. 6000eliot May 2012 #25

At what point in the confrontation do you believe Trayvon realized that Zimmerman was armed? slackmaster May 2012 #27

Probably when he was SHOT DEAD! 6000eliot May 2012 #31

So, before he was shot he didn't know that he was engaging an armed person slackmaster May 2012 #33

Streetwise jambo101 May 2012 #46

"streetwise"????? ljm2002 May 2012 #58

Because he lived in FL... -..__... May 2012 #184

what makes you think he was "streetwise" noiretextatique May 2012 #85

It doesn't matter, the stalking was the aggression PERIOD uponit7771 May 2012 #61

So if I am being harassed/stalked in public I have the right to attempt to punch out my attacker ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #93

If I'm minding my own business while walking home at night and not doing anything illegal Downtown Hound May 2012 #129

Right to a point ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #147

Well, again, even if Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman throwing MMA punches Downtown Hound May 2012 #153

That is one of many possible scenarios ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #154

How do you know Zimmerman didn't try and physically stop Trayvon Downtown Hound May 2012 #165

We are both right...lots of unknowns ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #174

I have a feeling that's EXACTLY how it went down. LAGC May 2012 #225

Probably well after Zimmerman concluded that Martin was a criminal. JoePhilly May 2012 #157

Unlikely he knew Zimmerman was armed mactime May 2012 #30

Who are these people who are defending this thug? 6000eliot May 2012 #32

Almost exclusively? Ikonoklast May 2012 #101

Talk about assumptions... ljm2002 May 2012 #67

Indeed we do not know who escalated it to a physical confrontation ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #90

At the same point you can shoot him... Fumesucker May 2012 #124

That is not the legal standard ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #126

I can imagine any number of reasons Martin would be fearful of injury.. Fumesucker May 2012 #130

There is little to support your assertions ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #146

Poor kid lost three inches dpibel May 2012 #228

You are full of it! mazzarro May 2012 #107

And why, pray-tell, do you assume that Trayvon assault Zimmerman? Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #151

That makes no sense. Zimmerman could not have defended himself janx May 2012 #218

This is the first thing I've ever posted in a Trayvon thread. Zorra May 2012 #35

THAT'S a broken nose? Pathwalker May 2012 #36

wait, he supposedly had 2 black eyes too..... his eyes look fine IcyPeas May 2012 #39

The last time I broke my nose, there was almost no external bleeding. The black eyes took about two slackmaster May 2012 #43

Then where's a picture taken about two days later? If your broken nose had "almost no bleeding," jenmito May 2012 #63

Yes, the fact that we haven't seen a picture from two days later PROVES without any doubt... slackmaster May 2012 #69

If he SAID Trayvon gave him 2 black eyes and a broken nose and swollen lips but the pictures show jenmito May 2012 #71

More pictures seem to appear every day slackmaster May 2012 #73

The fact is there are no black eyes. Zimmerman said he had 2 black eyes, a broken nose, and jenmito May 2012 #75

My point is that WE ARE BEING PLAYED. slackmaster May 2012 #108

So you don't believe he had a broken nose, etc. (like I don't believe?) If so, I didn't know you jenmito May 2012 #109

I don't know whether he had a broken nose or not. That will all come out in the trial... slackmaster May 2012 #110

You're right-both stories can't be true- jenmito May 2012 #117

I think you're right (being played). and it's creepy. HiPointDem May 2012 #161

Now now... Rex May 2012 #133

He looks alive to me. WilliamPitt May 2012 #49

Where's the supposed broken nose (no blood?) and supposed swollen lips (no blood?)? One small jenmito May 2012 #62

Oh yes. It must be real. And only, what, three months later...... wandy May 2012 #64

these pictures prove that trayvon martin feared for HIS life. spanone May 2012 #65

please delete DetlefK May 2012 #68

GREAT CATCH uponit7771 May 2012 #72

Sorry, my bad. On a closer look I was wrong. DetlefK May 2012 #76

the paramedics on the scene noiretextatique May 2012 #91

Has the paramedic report been released? He did decline treatment. ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #95

there is a statement from the paramedics noiretextatique May 2012 #102

I don't care if you have a picture of Zimmerman's head being reattached to his neck EFerrari May 2012 #81

I have more bleeding when I shave my legs vanlassie May 2012 #82

I would humbly suggest you are doing it wrong then... Cave_Johnson May 2012 #183

LOL vanlassie May 2012 #188

I'll be the first to say he's still guilty Blue_Tires May 2012 #84

Hey is this as reliable as your Stormfront sourced fake photo of Trayvon Martin? CreekDog May 2012 #94

This is from AP, presumptively the rest of the media will be/are carrying it ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #97

Oh, god I'd completely forgotten about that gem Blue_Tires May 2012 #103

That was a good one... wudn't it? -..__... May 2012 #182

Look, I don't know why you dont' like us or our ideas, maybe because we are liberals CreekDog May 2012 #190

Uhmmm... reread the thread. -..__... May 2012 #199

If he started the confrontation, he's got a lot of ground to make up krispos42 May 2012 #98

So where are the alleged black eyes? Bake May 2012 #111

I'll bet you a beer that at least one photo of Zimmerman with black eyes will come out slackmaster May 2012 #119

I'm glad Trayvon put up a fight, as he was entitled to. librechik May 2012 #118

The police didn't order Zimmerman to do or not do anything slackmaster May 2012 #120

Yes indeed they did--he mentioned he was about to pursue, they said don't librechik May 2012 #125

911 operators have no authority ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #128

to Zimmerman, (Not a police officer) it was not a mandate librechik May 2012 #142

It is not recognized as such legally ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #148

That was not what would be referred to as a "lawful order" from a law enforcement officer. slackmaster May 2012 #162

911 operator suggestions are not the same as police orders ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #127

I disagree--that person is the public, official voice of the police. librechik May 2012 #131

Dispatchers can testify because they are experts in what they do, and sometimes have to answer... slackmaster May 2012 #135

Is the dispatcher paid by the police? If the dispatcher does something against police policy librechik May 2012 #137

Well I just spoke to one here in SoCal ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #155

Is the person who empties the trash cans at the police station also a "police official?" slackmaster May 2012 #163

no, according to FL law, administrator and support personnel are distinct librechik May 2012 #166

Thanks for the clarification. I still say that except under very specific circumstances, a PSO... slackmaster May 2012 #179

They are not the official voice of the police in any way ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #136

prove it librechik May 2012 #144

Are you serious saying that 911 operators have LEO authority? ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #150

What does the law actually say about obeying 911 operators? hack89 May 2012 #138

A couple of quick google searches turned up the following from somewhat reasonable ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #152

you should definitely refrain from citing news busters. librechik May 2012 #167

I missed the newsbusters URL...focused on the ABC Legal Analyst in the title ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #176

Wow. Look at that. Chorophyll May 2012 #122

No you've been waiting for this moment. Rex May 2012 #132

Here are some earlier threads of theirs. I think I see a pattern. Electric Monk May 2012 #208

...does that black/orange jacket match Myrina May 2012 #140

How many more constantly different head wounds will you show us? RedCloud May 2012 #145

Presuming the pictures are valid, its data that should be considered ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #158

enough to make you and I think that Zimmerman is innocent --that's what ...___.. wants, clearly... CreekDog May 2012 #164

"Trayvon Martin's death properly and some sort of justice or process."... -..__... May 2012 #189

Funny you mention that Blue_Tires May 2012 #193

Times have changed... -..__... May 2012 #207

Please spare me the 'lynch mob' hyperbole Blue_Tires May 2012 #212

Then why did you post a fake photo of Trayvon Martin --then don't claim moral high ground CreekDog May 2012 #197

Forget the pictures. This ONE sentence from the police dept. is all you have to know: jenmito May 2012 #149

Its been clear for quite some time that Zimmerman bears the moral responsibility for this ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #156

I think you are about right. JoePhilly May 2012 #159

The story you tell might be true-- Vattel May 2012 #211

And sadly, we'll only get to hear one side of the story. JoePhilly May 2012 #227

I think he'll get manslaugher. jenmito May 2012 #160

Yes, it does. Jamastiene May 2012 #170

Exactly. n/t jenmito May 2012 #178

I agree with that opinion slackmaster May 2012 #180

I've gotten more and worse cuts than that doing yard work. Jamastiene May 2012 #169

Please note the second to last page of discovery here: janx May 2012 #173

Are you shitting me? Arkana May 2012 #195

He picked a fight with a teenager Marrah_G May 2012 #198

those scratches are worth the life of a kid? Whisp May 2012 #204

And who will be the first to say this excuses murder? morningfog May 2012 #214

I have no problem waiting for the trial Zanzoobar May 2012 #220