General Discussion

Tommy_Carcetti

(44,494 posts)

51. You're going beyond the undisputed facts and into areas of some dispute.

Mon May 21, 2012, 02:09 PM

May 2012

Not saying you are necessarily incorrect on certain things, but the point of my OP was to point out glaring deficiencies in Zimmerman's story based solely on undisputed facts.

Zimmerman's original story was that he was ambushed, out of the blue, by Trayvon. And I just have a simple question on that story, and that is "Why?" Why would someone chose to hide out and ambush a potentially dangerous individual instead of logically seeking to seek safety?

It's not as though Zimmerman witnessed Trayvon commit a crime and chased him off, and Trayvon then felt a need to ambush him in order to intimidate him. Trayvon had done nothing wrong that night, you know it and I know it. He was being chased by Zimmerman and most likely had no idea why. So why would Trayvon then turn the tables and immediately turn into the aggressor? It doesn't make any sense.

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Looking at the undisputed facts in the Zimmerman case and applying Zimmerman's original story [View all] Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 OP

#3 is not quite correct. Common Sense Party May 2012 #1

Thanks. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #2

Oh, no, not in the least. Common Sense Party May 2012 #4

Option B BeGoodDoGood May 2012 #45

So what is Martin's motive in chosing to ambush Zimmerman instead of retreating to safety? Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #49

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #50

Wow. Okay. Wow. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #52

Yeah, Wow BeGoodDoGood May 2012 #64

"These assholes always get away." Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #67

Numerous Break-ins BeGoodDoGood May 2012 #69

Most rapists are men. Does that give anyone the right to profile all men? Daalalou May 2012 #71

Well, at least you realize in a very backwards way the racial component of this case. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #72

Martin Was Clearly the Aggressor Ultimately BeGoodDoGood May 2012 #76

What profile other than black and male? Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #80

Well... BeGoodDoGood May 2012 #83

Really....I mean, Really.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #85

Well... BeGoodDoGood May 2012 #86

Again, we are going off of Zimmerman's ORIGINAL STORY. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #90

Zimmerman is the one with history of violent assaults against other people, Trayvon's offenses JI7 May 2012 #89

Do you even know what profiling is? EOTE May 2012 #95

let's break it down like this.. frylock May 2012 #96

I have to give a big thumbs up to this. EOTE May 2012 #99

i'm sick of these trolls signing up here to spread their racisct crap.. frylock May 2012 #107

We have every reason to believe that Zimmerman provoked Martin MattBaggins May 2012 #100

Zimmerman didn't know any of that treestar May 2012 #117

Based on your insulting, moronic comments to the OP CatWoman May 2012 #84

Well... BeGoodDoGood May 2012 #88

Brawndo's got what plants crave. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #91

so the answer to preventing crime CatWoman May 2012 #73

No One Suggested Killing All Young Black Men BeGoodDoGood May 2012 #77

Yeah, it makes so much more sense that a kid with Skittles and tea went looking for a fight. EOTE May 2012 #94

Why not shoot him in the arm or shoulder then? treestar May 2012 #116

Or simply show his gun? Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #118

Or just told him he had a gun treestar May 2012 #121

except for a few points magical thyme May 2012 #124

You forgot one huge important piece of evidence. sabrina 1 May 2012 #130

You won't get a response. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #131

my head just completely and earth shatteringly CatWoman May 2012 #60

Thank you, I thought for a minute I was the only one appalled. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #61

next he'll tell us Trayvon will appear as a hologram CatWoman May 2012 #62

No, I noticed it too NoGOPZone May 2012 #65

Each time there is a new Trayvon thread, a member of MIRT should be assigned to babysit it. stevenleser May 2012 #63

Mine did too Generic Other May 2012 #70

LOL!! CatWoman May 2012 #74

Unlike Zimmerman's light gray T-shirt, which Fawke Em May 2012 #93

Re: #3, I don't see any mention in the transcript that resembles telling Z not to exit his vehicle slackmaster May 2012 #3

I went ahead and edited as to that one issue. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #6

It doesn't matter RiseFromBelow May 2012 #12

Who threw the first punch may be in dispute.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #16

From a post downthread, it seems he does believe that. uppityperson May 2012 #22

Who said there was a long verbal argument? RiseFromBelow May 2012 #25

No, there are other ways to be in that location. Perhaps he hid and waited to see what uppityperson May 2012 #28

No evidence RiseFromBelow May 2012 #32

Zimmy doesn't have to defend from every crackpot theory? Hahahaha. thank you MIRT. eom uppityperson May 2012 #33

No other injuries... including on his knuckles Daalalou May 2012 #55

Not from you, but some have speculated.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #31

Why wasn't Zimmerman back at his truck? Daalalou May 2012 #54

Your are incorrect regarding the Police Dispatch ...it was not a " suggestion" FarPoint May 2012 #26

It wasn't a lawful order. Zimmerman was under no legal obligation to follow the advice. slackmaster May 2012 #30

Yes it was a command. FarPoint May 2012 #36

Please cite an applicable Florida statute to back up your claim slackmaster May 2012 #39

Prove to me that we all can disregard the direction of an officer as desired ... FarPoint May 2012 #104

Officers can give ORDERS to people only under very limited circumstances, such as emergencies, slackmaster May 2012 #110

Well...if you practice what you preach and advocate... FarPoint May 2012 #111

Your reply is presumptuous nonsense. You imply that Zimmerman broke a LAW by not following advice, slackmaster May 2012 #112

oh good. new meat. frylock May 2012 #97

Physical altercation varstal110 Dec 2012 #135

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #5

He was 17 years old. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #9

Oh, I agree with the running RiseFromBelow May 2012 #17

There's a difference between feeling pugnacious and being downright idiotic. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #19

Only crime RiseFromBelow May 2012 #27

Suspended for pot vs a person with a long history of violence, are you fucking kidding me? Quixote1818 May 2012 #34

You'll have to prove that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman first. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #35

Would you care to bring up Zimmermans violent past MattBaggins May 2012 #98

Troll alert! Troll alert! Somebody help! broiles May 2012 #13

I want him/her JustAnotherGen May 2012 #20

i guess calling people 'troll' ProdigalJunkMail May 2012 #43

Can you please edit that? Iggo May 2012 #44

Excellent fielding of foul trolls. FarPoint May 2012 #108

He was on his way to leftynyc May 2012 #14

Post removed Post removed May 2012 #15

Why would a Private Citizen JustAnotherGen May 2012 #18

How was Trayvon bigger than Zimmerman? You keep saying that, what do you base that on? uppityperson May 2012 #21

How would Zimmerman lose sight of him? And Martin was not bigger than Zimmerman. Quixote1818 May 2012 #23

Zimmerman neglected to inform the Officer- Dispatcher FarPoint May 2012 #29

And another racist troll bites the dust. Rex May 2012 #38

Here they come Kingofalldems May 2012 #7

I love watching trolls get shitcanned. Rex May 2012 #40

I actually wanted him to answer my question though. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #41

I don't think he would be able to answer that question Rex May 2012 #56

I think Zimmerman didn't know that shimonitanegi May 2012 #8

I don't think much matters before they fought Life Long Dem May 2012 #10

It's more of a matter of his original story not making any sense. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #11

Good question goclark May 2012 #24

Actually it does in a huge way. Rex May 2012 #37

are you sure about the 300 feet? hfojvt May 2012 #42

I would have to go beyond the undisputed facts for speculation as to the timeline. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #53

but the two minutes is an undisputed fact hfojvt May 2012 #66

Home is a place where the only person present... Daalalou May 2012 #68

Your point supports Trayvon Daalalou May 2012 #58

the two minutes is enough time to get home hfojvt May 2012 #79

I agree; I think he continued to look for Trayvon Daalalou May 2012 #82

you know, George.....the kind of troll that was sent to this thread... grasswire May 2012 #46

The FBI is going to flambe him. Rex May 2012 #48

Option B defies all logic and human nature? Spoonman May 2012 #47

You're going beyond the undisputed facts and into areas of some dispute. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #51

Really? joeglow3 May 2012 #87

Different context though. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #92

I'm sticking with the facts Spoonman May 2012 #101

All the physical evidence merely does is establish that a struggle took place. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #102

You obviously missed your calling........ Spoonman May 2012 #103

And millions of others have convicted Trayvon Daalalou May 2012 #105

Very good points Spoonman May 2012 #109

You're wrong about the facts Daalalou May 2012 #114

Assumptions Again....... Spoonman May 2012 #119

My response Daalalou May 2012 #125

But would you agree that Trayvon deciding to ambush Zimmerman out of the blue doesn't seem logical? Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #115

You are still trying to place YOUR logic into the mind of a 17 year old Spoonman May 2012 #122

What Zimmerman story are you going off of? Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #123

His original story...... Spoonman May 2012 #126

I think you are glossing over the fact that Trayvon was doing nothing wrong that evening. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #129

I cannot read minds, that much is true. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #106

Trayvon wasn't that big, and Zimmerman was no longer fat Daalalou May 2012 #59

The ambush story has always bothered me the most... Sancho May 2012 #57

Powerful. H2O Man May 2012 #75

Psst... his dad wasn't home. Fawke Em May 2012 #78

Noted. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #81

I don't know what happened, but a high school kid wanting to beat the crap out of some creep Vattel May 2012 #113

Zimmerman doesn't just allege a verbal confrontation, though. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #120

You overestimate the maturity and prudence of teenagers. Vattel May 2012 #127

To the contrary, I think you underestimate them. Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #128

The defied logic comes in because of other circumstances you omitt in his situation. vaberella May 2012 #132

Good point as to No. 4 .... Tommy_Carcetti May 2012 #133

You guys are guessing, and that's fine. Vattel May 2012 #134