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AOR

(692 posts)
96. Well I disagree that the economy is not broken...
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:27 PM
Aug 2015

the economy is ALWAYS broken for those left behind due to capitalist social relations. Capitalism does not elevate the majority it increasingly impoverishes the majority. I'm not sure how many realize how bad 2008 was for so many. When capitalist crisis of over-production rears it's head more and more workers become impoverished and destroyed. 50% of Americans earn less that $ 27,000 a year, while close to 40% of Americans have zero retirement savings and 1 out of every 7 Americans over 65 lives in poverty. Add in child poverty and homelessness and that doesn't even begin to tell the story. Throw in the devastation caused by capitalism and war and all its tentacles around the globe and the picture of abject poverty and destruction is even bleaker. The tipping point is getting close.

You are right that the choice will be Socialism of some form or outright Fascism going forward. The tipping point is getting close. Historically, Capitalism goes hand in hand with Fascism when conditions caused by Capitalism deteriorate. That said, the capitalists don't really need Fascism to expropriate from the workers and redistribute upwards, but if conditions caused by capitalist social arrangements deteriorate enough, and desperation sets in, the capitalists will use all means available and make much appeal to every element of Fascist and Neo-Fascist ideology to keep control.

As far as revolution goes... as I told someone else...when people say that all leftists are automatically calling for violent revolution to enact wholesale change... that is not the case. Leftists are calling for self-defense and outright resistance against the violence of capitalist social relations that are raining down on the heads of the oppressed and exploited daily and have been for ages. We can't determine outcomes - on the ground fighting against the system - and most don't promote such means to an end.We do promote outright resistance and self-defense against the capitalist system. Possibilities lie between mere reforms and violent revolution. A political movement taking demands to the street in mass and not stopping until demands are met is always a possibility. If the working class, the oppressed, the exploited, and those demanding change cross their arms and refuse to bend or uncross them until demands are met... the capitalist system and the ruling class are in very big trouble. Power really does concede NOTHING without demands and resistance.


"When all the bricklayers, and all the machinists, and all the miners, and blacksmiths, and printers, and hod-carriers, and stevedores, and house-painters, and brakemen, and engineers, and conductors, and factory hands, and horse-car drivers, and all the shop-girls, and all the sewing-women, and all the telegraph operators; in a word all the myriads of toilers in whom is slumbering the reality of that thing which you call power ... when these rise,call the vast spectacle by any deluding name that will please your ear, but the fact remains a Nation has risen."

Mark Twain

Hedges - Always On Target cantbeserious Aug 2015 #1
+1 Scuba Aug 2015 #95
So many willfully ignorant humans, chervilant Aug 2015 #2
+1000 nt abelenkpe Aug 2015 #7
Sadly, he may be correct. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #3
Me too! ananda Aug 2015 #11
"The very word “drought” is part of the deception, implying this is somehow reversible. It isn’t." < jtuck004 Aug 2015 #4
Perhaps a preamble to another "French" revolution. Augiedog Aug 2015 #5
I have thought that this may be the last time to use our pitchforks at the voting booth. libdem4life Aug 2015 #44
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." hifiguy Aug 2015 #61
Spot on hifiguy! punguin54 Aug 2015 #69
Never heard that one, but Amen to the wise JFK. That's why they took him from us. libdem4life Sep 2015 #109
K&R for visibility. nt tblue37 Aug 2015 #6
A strong tonic Fairgo Aug 2015 #8
And that about sums it up... IthinkThereforeIAM Aug 2015 #13
That's a lyrical way of saying we're fucked. pscot Aug 2015 #77
I was in a mood Fairgo Sep 2015 #103
Hedges just has to throw in a smear against Obama and Clinton using the same Trump broad stroke Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #9
I definitely agree with you. olegramps Aug 2015 #15
I'll give you a mulligan and assume you know nothing about Chris Hedges. marmar Aug 2015 #17
I read the article as far as the part I quoted, isn't that enough to know for the purposes of this thread? Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #18
Head Blecht Aug 2015 #35
Try reading some of his many books. Fuddnik Aug 2015 #56
I watch him nearly nightly and have had great respect for him. olegramps Aug 2015 #21
Are you confusing Chris Hedges with Chris Hayes? nt HomerRamone Aug 2015 #28
Thanks for the correction. olegramps Aug 2015 #30
He's basically saying that the entire system is corrupt and beyond redemption. PotatoChip Aug 2015 #29
I completely agree with your post. I believe what Hedges says is right on the money. rhett o rick Aug 2015 #33
Yes, I feel that we have absolutely nothing to lose at this point. PotatoChip Aug 2015 #36
We are in a do or die situation. Moving to a third party is sucide. The Democratic Party rhett o rick Aug 2015 #37
Yes, indeed! (nt) PotatoChip Aug 2015 #38
Yep. hifiguy Aug 2015 #65
I agree. Fuddnik Aug 2015 #57
I think Hedges likes Bernie Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #62
Hedges doesn't believe we can win playing the Oligarchs game. Obama and Clinton play rhett o rick Aug 2015 #68
I think this OP is a bit of an extremist alarmist rant passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #97
I agree. nm rhett o rick Aug 2015 #34
You have reading comprehension difficulties... haikugal Aug 2015 #23
It's not a direct attack. The word IF - a big word - makes it conditional at best. hifiguy Aug 2015 #78
It is because of profound cynicism that many of us have. zeemike Aug 2015 #19
"I'll take Nanette Fabre... Blus4u Aug 2015 #20
Agree! mountain grammy Aug 2015 #24
Phil Gramm? Penny Pritzker? Octafish Aug 2015 #32
Does the truth scare you? Unknown Beatle Aug 2015 #76
Hedges is after bigger game than Hillary pscot Aug 2015 #79
All that money looking for a new fix. raouldukelives Aug 2015 #10
This is why I'm for Sanders, and why I'm tilting at this windmill one more time. PatrickforO Aug 2015 #12
It reminds me of William Butler Yeats: tclambert Aug 2015 #14
One last time it remains to be seen does the truth work? gordianot Aug 2015 #16
. haikugal Aug 2015 #22
Good journaling of the crisis, almost nothing on what to do about it dreamnightwind Aug 2015 #25
Great post. I think there are a lot more like Sanders that are waiting to see if there really is rhett o rick Aug 2015 #40
I think the voters have spoken on this one dreamnightwind Aug 2015 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #26
Things are falling apart. jalan48 Aug 2015 #27
An excellent description of the shitstorm that has arrived. blackspade Aug 2015 #31
Everyone should read this, and the comments following it Doctor_J Aug 2015 #39
Fuck Chris Hedges muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #41
Chris Hedges described how Hannah Arendt pegged our situation today. Octafish Aug 2015 #42
The OP is an anti-Democratic party article that has no place on a Democratic board muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #43
Justice doesn't take a back seat to my Party. Octafish Aug 2015 #46
Yup. Kinda sad. marmar Aug 2015 #47
SO what you are saying Octa, is that some here talk about people and not issues? Rex Aug 2015 #50
Hedges' party is not the Democratic party muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #53
Hedges believes in democracy, which is the most important thing to believe in... Octafish Aug 2015 #55
He's not that keen on small-d democracy either muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #59
Did you read it? dougolat Sep 2015 #99
Hedges' point is not Sanders' point; Hedges has condemned Sanders muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #101
More like a condemnation for an expressed promise to... dougolat Sep 2015 #104
ill-advised decision to validate the Democratic Party by becoming one of its presidential candidates muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #105
ALL of this. hifiguy Aug 2015 #70
Simple solution...don't read it... AOR Aug 2015 #48
And he's a known plagiarist, too. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #49
Do you believe that the Democratic Party is perfect as it is? bvar22 Aug 2015 #51
He's only interested in attacking the Democratic party muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #52
If Hillary is coronated as the nominee, bvar22 Aug 2015 #54
I thought 'PUMA' was a crap idea in 2008, and it would be crap in 2016 muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #58
I am not talking about Democrat v Republican, bvar22 Aug 2015 #64
And that is now the ONLY battleground that matters. hifiguy Aug 2015 #71
^^^this^^^ is the real war "Citizens v Oligarchy" L0oniX Aug 2015 #82
He hates the kitteh. L0oniX Aug 2015 #83
As a Bernie Sanders Group host, are you happy with Hedges' remarks about Sanders? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #84
"If" he has a legit criticism of Bernie I have no problem with it being discussed. L0oniX Aug 2015 #85
No, I don't hang out there; but I'm surprised at a Bernie Sanders supporter muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #88
Is there any proof that "Bernie is just a sheepdog to herd the gullible progressives"??? L0oniX Aug 2015 #89
Hedges called Sanders a sheepdog; see #72 (nt) muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #100
He represents the "Underground" faction of the Democratic party. I believe he does belong here. corkhead Aug 2015 #93
Hedges is not in any faction of the Democrats. He wants the party gone muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #102
2008 was a gasp, the next one will be the death stroke. Rex Aug 2015 #45
No...much of the worlds problems are due to global capitalism on the march... AOR Aug 2015 #67
So....you would go with Marx and Engels plan? Already tried that. Doesn't work either. Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #74
The work of Marx and Engels are a guide and a foundation for the working class... AOR Aug 2015 #80
Had that pegged......! Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #86
Used to be the uber-rich were content with just all the physical toys and the simple pleasures of money. Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #73
I hope people take the time to read the whole thing Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #60
"He functions as a sheepdog to corral progressives, left-leaning progressives" muriel_volestrangler Aug 2015 #72
Funny how often the folks beseeching others to "read the article" have obviously not done so themselves. Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #75
And you still don't get it... AOR Aug 2015 #81
On the contrary, I welcome folks educated in Marxist lore and revolutionary zeal, it is the ID of Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #87
Marx and Engels have been dead a lot less than 200 years hifiguy Aug 2015 #90
Apologies to AOR poster for my dates of death....you make a valid point of surplus from labor. Capitalism Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #91
"Economically, overall things are not that bad" REALLY? RiverLover Sep 2015 #107
Gloom and doom is not for me! I remember 2008, for example. Remember that? I recall no time of economic perfection, but Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #108
People will get there on there own as material conditions dictate or they won't Fred... AOR Aug 2015 #92
I understand what you are saying, but a revolution, fascist or socialist needs one thing above all Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #94
Well I disagree that the economy is not broken... AOR Aug 2015 #96
Chris is correct, we must stop the neoliberalist march. Neoliberal = Nazi. Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #66
I really wonder if we are witnessing the fall of the American Republic. Kablooie Sep 2015 #98
Globally income equality is better than it has ever been. In the US it is almost as bad as pre-FDR pampango Sep 2015 #106
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