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In reply to the discussion: Looking at the undisputed facts in the Zimmerman case and applying Zimmerman's original story [View all]Daalalou
(54 posts)125. My response
At 5' 9" every BMI chart I' looked at puts him 20 lbs overweight.
185-200 lbs at 5'9" classifies as overweight BMI, but not obese. However, BMI is not always an accurate assessment of fitness: "Athletes sometimes get the short end of the stick when it comes to BMI results. Because BMI is based on height and weight, muscle mass isn't taken into account and muscle-bound athletes like football players, body builders and softball players often test at overweight or obese levels." Source
ETA: You made some pretty huge assumptions in the post I was responding to: "Zimmerman is a lard ass, and NO WAY NO HOW could have outrun a 17 year old football player. (That's logical). If Trayvon took off running, as Z stated, he had ample time to get home WAY before fat boy could have caught up to him."
How do you know that? If you hadn't seen the 2005 mug shot when Z was very overweight and your first image of him was either the police video or Z at his arraignment, I doubt you would have come to that conclusion.
He also exits the police vehicle in handcuffs unassisted--something that is difficult to do unless you're in pretty good shape.
Is this an expert opinion? How would you know?
Was the back seat of the police car more conducive to the ability to do this more than others?
HUGE assumption!
It's based on an expert opinion. I watched a retired police officer (sorry, can't remember the show) make observations about the police surveillance video when Zimmerman arrives at the station. He noted that Zimmerman moved easily and fluidly throughout the video, but most tellingly when he exited the car. Most people use at least one hand, on the door handle or the seat, to give them leverage when they're getting out of a car. When you're handcuffed, you don't have a free hand to use, so usually a police officer will help you out. The retired policeman pointed out that not only did no one help Zimmerman get out, he didn't need anyone's help.
===============
You're right, I don't know if the doors were locked, or if there was a hidden key. But going home, even if home was easy to enter, opens up the possibility that Z is still following and would see where he was staying. In addition, both his dad and the future stepbrother's mother said the two boys were close, and Trayvon was buying Skittles for him. So yeah, I think there's evidence he'd be concerned about leading Zimmerman home where the younger boy was waiting.
a. By confronting the "threat" I will assume you meant to say Trayvon stuck Z, and thereby becomes the aggressor and is subsequently justifiably killed
b. Z shoots him in cold blood, smashes his face against something to break his nose, rolls around in the grass and slams his head into the concrete causing the abrasions.
I think you're lying when you say you haven't taken a side. Z's injuries weren't consistent with his head being slammed against the concrete, and T's injuries (to his hands) weren't consistent with beating someone. Furthermore, confronting the threat doesn't presume violence--"What are you following me for?!!" is confronting it. You're the one suggesting that means Trayvon struck first, and we don't know that.
185-200 lbs at 5'9" classifies as overweight BMI, but not obese. However, BMI is not always an accurate assessment of fitness: "Athletes sometimes get the short end of the stick when it comes to BMI results. Because BMI is based on height and weight, muscle mass isn't taken into account and muscle-bound athletes like football players, body builders and softball players often test at overweight or obese levels." Source
ETA: You made some pretty huge assumptions in the post I was responding to: "Zimmerman is a lard ass, and NO WAY NO HOW could have outrun a 17 year old football player. (That's logical). If Trayvon took off running, as Z stated, he had ample time to get home WAY before fat boy could have caught up to him."
How do you know that? If you hadn't seen the 2005 mug shot when Z was very overweight and your first image of him was either the police video or Z at his arraignment, I doubt you would have come to that conclusion.
He also exits the police vehicle in handcuffs unassisted--something that is difficult to do unless you're in pretty good shape.
Is this an expert opinion? How would you know?
Was the back seat of the police car more conducive to the ability to do this more than others?
HUGE assumption!
It's based on an expert opinion. I watched a retired police officer (sorry, can't remember the show) make observations about the police surveillance video when Zimmerman arrives at the station. He noted that Zimmerman moved easily and fluidly throughout the video, but most tellingly when he exited the car. Most people use at least one hand, on the door handle or the seat, to give them leverage when they're getting out of a car. When you're handcuffed, you don't have a free hand to use, so usually a police officer will help you out. The retired policeman pointed out that not only did no one help Zimmerman get out, he didn't need anyone's help.
===============
You're right, I don't know if the doors were locked, or if there was a hidden key. But going home, even if home was easy to enter, opens up the possibility that Z is still following and would see where he was staying. In addition, both his dad and the future stepbrother's mother said the two boys were close, and Trayvon was buying Skittles for him. So yeah, I think there's evidence he'd be concerned about leading Zimmerman home where the younger boy was waiting.
a. By confronting the "threat" I will assume you meant to say Trayvon stuck Z, and thereby becomes the aggressor and is subsequently justifiably killed
b. Z shoots him in cold blood, smashes his face against something to break his nose, rolls around in the grass and slams his head into the concrete causing the abrasions.
I think you're lying when you say you haven't taken a side. Z's injuries weren't consistent with his head being slammed against the concrete, and T's injuries (to his hands) weren't consistent with beating someone. Furthermore, confronting the threat doesn't presume violence--"What are you following me for?!!" is confronting it. You're the one suggesting that means Trayvon struck first, and we don't know that.
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Looking at the undisputed facts in the Zimmerman case and applying Zimmerman's original story [View all]
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
OP
So what is Martin's motive in chosing to ambush Zimmerman instead of retreating to safety?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
#49
Well, at least you realize in a very backwards way the racial component of this case.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
#72
Zimmerman is the one with history of violent assaults against other people, Trayvon's offenses
JI7
May 2012
#89
Yeah, it makes so much more sense that a kid with Skittles and tea went looking for a fight.
EOTE
May 2012
#94
Each time there is a new Trayvon thread, a member of MIRT should be assigned to babysit it.
stevenleser
May 2012
#63
Re: #3, I don't see any mention in the transcript that resembles telling Z not to exit his vehicle
slackmaster
May 2012
#3
No, there are other ways to be in that location. Perhaps he hid and waited to see what
uppityperson
May 2012
#28
Zimmy doesn't have to defend from every crackpot theory? Hahahaha. thank you MIRT. eom
uppityperson
May 2012
#33
Your are incorrect regarding the Police Dispatch ...it was not a " suggestion"
FarPoint
May 2012
#26
It wasn't a lawful order. Zimmerman was under no legal obligation to follow the advice.
slackmaster
May 2012
#30
Prove to me that we all can disregard the direction of an officer as desired ...
FarPoint
May 2012
#104
Officers can give ORDERS to people only under very limited circumstances, such as emergencies,
slackmaster
May 2012
#110
Your reply is presumptuous nonsense. You imply that Zimmerman broke a LAW by not following advice,
slackmaster
May 2012
#112
There's a difference between feeling pugnacious and being downright idiotic.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
#19
Suspended for pot vs a person with a long history of violence, are you fucking kidding me?
Quixote1818
May 2012
#34
How was Trayvon bigger than Zimmerman? You keep saying that, what do you base that on?
uppityperson
May 2012
#21
How would Zimmerman lose sight of him? And Martin was not bigger than Zimmerman.
Quixote1818
May 2012
#23
I would have to go beyond the undisputed facts for speculation as to the timeline.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
#53
You're going beyond the undisputed facts and into areas of some dispute.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
#51
All the physical evidence merely does is establish that a struggle took place.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
#102
But would you agree that Trayvon deciding to ambush Zimmerman out of the blue doesn't seem logical?
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
#115
I think you are glossing over the fact that Trayvon was doing nothing wrong that evening.
Tommy_Carcetti
May 2012
#129
I don't know what happened, but a high school kid wanting to beat the crap out of some creep
Vattel
May 2012
#113
The defied logic comes in because of other circumstances you omitt in his situation.
vaberella
May 2012
#132