General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

89. Excellent, thank you!

Tue May 22, 2012, 08:03 PM

May 2012

I would like an answer also, to your last question. Was it the 'German culture of lazy, non-tax-paying fools' also? Ireland, Spain? I don't know why this meme is given any credibility here on DU. Airc, Faux tried it here when our own economy collapsed, here it was the 'wellfare queens buying stuff they couldn't afford who were so powerful they collapsed the Global Economy also. Unbelievable.

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Exploding the myth of the feckless, lazy Greeks [View all] Lars77 May 2012 OP

du rec. nt xchrom May 2012 #1

"Maria has never dodged a tax in her life." And he knows this how ? n/t PoliticAverse May 2012 #2

Poor folks pay regressive taxes: fees and sales taxes, Warpy May 2012 #3

Because of lack of evidence that she ever dodged taxes, perhaps? Zalatix May 2012 #5

If you read the article, SnowCritter May 2012 #6

I did read it and saw that it was about his mother. I'm convinced that he loves her. n/t PoliticAverse May 2012 #8

So on the one hand you have meticulously collected tax/income statistics covering generations 4th law of robotics May 2012 #12

Yes, let's blame the working class instead of the banks Zalatix May 2012 #29

I blame the voting class 4th law of robotics May 2012 #31

Ah, blame the voters, democracy. Not the rich, of course. Zalatix May 2012 #99

Who put Greece's government in power? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #110

The Government betrayed the people. Zalatix May 2012 #120

You didn't answer my question: 4th law of robotics May 2012 #123

I did answer your question. Zalatix May 2012 #127

Ah so greeks live in an authoritarian state where they have no control over their government 4th law of robotics May 2012 #128

You don't think the rich control the politicians? Zalatix May 2012 #133

If the politicians ran on a platform of putting up red light cameras 4th law of robotics May 2012 #137

Actually your argument is all backwards. Zalatix May 2012 #144

So for generations the Greeks voted for balanced budgets 4th law of robotics May 2012 #150

Your source doesn't back up your argument. Your argument is not logical. Zalatix May 2012 #156

Repeating something does not make it true 4th law of robotics May 2012 #160

Funny, that applies to you, too. Your source doesn't support your argument. Zalatix May 2012 #163

You are coming across as an inherently dishonest person 4th law of robotics May 2012 #166

Coming across as dishonest to whom? Zalatix May 2012 #169

I'm going to go ahead and put you on ignore 4th law of robotics May 2012 #168

I'm the first of many from here that you're putting on ignore. Bye! Zalatix May 2012 #170

Out of curiosity: do you deny the fact that the Greeks underpay on their taxes? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #32

I acknowledge that the rich ones do. Zalatix May 2012 #39

Ah so it's just the rich 4th law of robotics May 2012 #45

assuming their income tax system is something like ours, slightly progressive with ordinary people HiPointDem May 2012 #55

Rich Greeks, yes, just like here. Why, did you buy into the 'blame the working class sabrina 1 May 2012 #42

Assuming it's only the rich doing this is not supported by facts 4th law of robotics May 2012 #47

of course it's supported by the facts. where the rich get most of the income, they are paying HiPointDem May 2012 #56

*most* 4th law of robotics May 2012 #106

5% of the people get 50% of the income in the us and pay about 60% of the income taxes. HiPointDem May 2012 #124

Greece is now part of the US? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #125

didn't say it was. but the people with the money are responsible for the majority of income taxes, HiPointDem May 2012 #129

You can understand the confusion of course 4th law of robotics May 2012 #131

yes, i understand *your* confusion. if you acknowledge the obvious you have no argument. HiPointDem May 2012 #135

On the contrary, I have been extremely consistent and logical in my debate 4th law of robotics May 2012 #136

You have provided no evidence whatsoever of anything. I linked Greece's GINI index. HiPointDem May 2012 #143

And that would be quite relevent if we were discussing their GINI index. 4th law of robotics May 2012 #152

don't be disingenuous. HiPointDem May 2012 #186

Sorry, that is BS. sabrina 1 May 2012 #84

+1,000,000, that was very well said. Zalatix May 2012 #98

You are simply making claims 4th law of robotics May 2012 #107

What happened to Spain, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal? sabrina 1 May 2012 #114

They likewise had weak economies going in 4th law of robotics May 2012 #117

You are making the ludicrous claim that the Global Meltdown was caused by sabrina 1 May 2012 #139

No, I never said that 4th law of robotics May 2012 #154

Yes, you did say that, in Post #12. Zalatix May 2012 #159

No, I didn't. This is a lie 4th law of robotics May 2012 #165

So what did cause the meltdown? sabrina 1 May 2012 #172

Where did the bailout money, forced on the Greeks by the Goldman Sachs contingency sabrina 1 May 2012 #102

Why did they need bailout money 4th law of robotics May 2012 #109

Why did the US need bailout money? Why did Ireland need bailout money? sabrina 1 May 2012 #140

You keep ignoring a key point 4th law of robotics May 2012 #153

Germany is running a massive trade surplus, this is a big help to their economy. Zalatix May 2012 #167

You didn't answer the question I have asked. Why did Ireland need a bailout, why did the sabrina 1 May 2012 #173

Well the US didn't get a bailout 4th law of robotics May 2012 #176

Portugal also received a bailout. sabrina 1 May 2012 #177

Sigh, this is getting repetitive 4th law of robotics May 2012 #178

The Greeks are not in a uniquely bad place. girl gone mad May 2012 #179

"You need to explain how taking more money out of the Greek private sector through taxation" 4th law of robotics May 2012 #181

Finally, so the Global Meltdown caused by corrupt Wall Street sabrina 1 May 2012 #188

I. Never. Said. Greece. Was. At. Fault. For. The. Global. Economic. Meltdown 4th law of robotics May 2012 #189

Lol, 'am I deranged'? sabrina 1 May 2012 #190

"Disagreeing with someone does not make them 'deranged'. " 4th law of robotics May 2012 #192

Start here and follow the subthread: sabrina 1 May 2012 #193

Yes, I pointed out that tax evasion has been a problem for Greece 4th law of robotics May 2012 #195

Point out where you made a clear statement refuting the Right Wing claim sabrina 1 May 2012 #196

So you're lying then? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #201

Also the OP *never said the greeks were responsible for global problems* 4th law of robotics May 2012 #202

So to summarize what I've stated now 3 dozen times: 4th law of robotics May 2012 #203

Ultra Rec!!! Zalatix May 2012 #4

(Sniffle) Reminds me of my mom SunSeeker May 2012 #7

Thanks! I've been wondering about this Corporate Media (1%) hit on the Greeks. Peace Patriot May 2012 #9

That might explode the myth of a single Greek taxpayer Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #10

"Greece is getting austerity, no matter what happens." Lars77 May 2012 #14

So where is all this magical money going to come from? Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #15

The Greeks are victims. I thought it seemed like you didnt really give a shit. Lars77 May 2012 #17

In other words, you have nothing. Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #18

I have nothing? I havent even tried to argue with you so calm down. Lars77 May 2012 #22

Minor correction. The 'Colonels Regime' ended in 1974, not 1979 RZM May 2012 #54

Right :) Lars77 May 2012 #69

The Greeks are switching to a barter system. How's that for "nothing"? Zalatix May 2012 #30

That's actually worse than nothing. nt Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #37

For the rich, yeah. Zalatix May 2012 #40

Actually, the rich are probably running the black market. Javaman May 2012 #116

Where did the USA's "magical money" come from? girl gone mad May 2012 #28

The same place we are getting all of katsy May 2012 #103

Well said. girl gone mad May 2012 #180

I have a friend leaving for Greece next week. katsy May 2012 #205

"expressing resistance" 4th law of robotics May 2012 #20

They did it to themselves? girl gone mad May 2012 #34

You have hit on what you seem to believe is a point so you're posting it over and over again 4th law of robotics May 2012 #50

Actually, the financial collapse did cause these problems. girl gone mad May 2012 #59

except that there are still fewer jobs in the us than when bush ii took office. HiPointDem May 2012 #92

Yes, we have only muddled through. girl gone mad May 2012 #95

So nothing the greeks did prior to this in any way made them particularly vulnerable to the economic 4th law of robotics May 2012 #113

as I have said repeatedly.. girl gone mad May 2012 #182

The Maastricht treaty was signed in 1993 4th law of robotics May 2012 #183

Did you take any time to read the piece I linked to? girl gone mad May 2012 #197

And this is why I get irritated 4th law of robotics May 2012 #200

Ireland, Spain, Iceland, France, Portugal and the rest? They have no problems? sabrina 1 May 2012 #111

Please compile a list of nations not affected by the financial collapse 4th law of robotics May 2012 #112

That's her point. Greece was affected, and that's why they're in trouble. Zalatix May 2012 #146

Greece was affected 4th law of robotics May 2012 #147

If Greece had chosen a Keynesian approach* instead of austerity Zalatix May 2012 #151

Again, time flows in one direction 4th law of robotics May 2012 #155

Okay let me explain this slowly. Zalatix May 2012 #157

"Since you are all hung up on the flow of time:" 4th law of robotics May 2012 #162

Every other nation was able to fix their own economies? O'RLY??? ROTFLMAO!!! Zalatix May 2012 #171

Which nations have fixed their problems? Spain? Italy? Ireland? Portugal? sabrina 1 May 2012 #174

Careful, you'll get put on ignore like I did, lol. Zalatix May 2012 #185

Oh, good grief.. girl gone mad May 2012 #198

You bought this garbage, seriously? sabrina 1 May 2012 #43

I doubt you have the slightest idea of who pays what in Greece. Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #46

It's Greece politics and economics coming home to roost in Ireland, too? girl gone mad May 2012 #67

Has anyone ever legitimately lent money to Greece? Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #70

Way to ratchet down the discussion. girl gone mad May 2012 #72

It makes sense if you know what you are talking about. sabrina 1 May 2012 #76

Maybe you could have a few hard numbers next time. Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #78

Yes, dozens and dozens, this situation has been going on for several years, where would sabrina 1 May 2012 #81

Sabrina.. girl gone mad May 2012 #86

Thank you! Roubini's statement here is what most actual economists have been sabrina 1 May 2012 #90

Yes, I do remember.. girl gone mad May 2012 #94

Why did Greece remain mired in depression despite these significant bailout packages? girl gone mad May 2012 #82

Thank you. It's depressing to see anyone falling for this sabrina 1 May 2012 #101

"We KNOW the wealthy in Greece pay no taxes just like here" 4th law of robotics May 2012 #51

GE pays taxes? sabrina 1 May 2012 #79

GE = all wealthy people? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #105

Let's add Bank of America to that list. Zalatix May 2012 #161

You're citing companies, when I'm talking about personal income taxes 4th law of robotics May 2012 #164

I wonder what the right wing thinks of this? CreekDog May 2012 #158

Personal anecdotes don't trump the fact that for generations the Greeks have 4th law of robotics May 2012 #11

Like me saying "The Americans" have skipped out on paying their full share Lars77 May 2012 #13

Using loopholes to their maximum is not the same 4th law of robotics May 2012 #19

Yup. I guess that's what happens when you don't trust the government to take care of you. Lars77 May 2012 #23

Well they report working the most 4th law of robotics May 2012 #24

"You get the government you deserve. " Lars77 May 2012 #25

Yep, pretty much every election 4th law of robotics May 2012 #26

More than likely that whole 1/3 is due to the rich skipping taxes. Zalatix May 2012 #33

Speculation 4th law of robotics May 2012 #48

And you have no source for your claims. Zalatix May 2012 #97

" And you have no source for your claims." Except for you know the source I provided 4th law of robotics May 2012 #108

And you ignored the proof that I showed that you're wrong. Zalatix May 2012 #118

Please post the comment number where you provided objective third party proof 4th law of robotics May 2012 #119

Post #97. Now stop blaming the poor. Because I will always come back and defend them. Zalatix May 2012 #121

Wait, seriously? You think that article you posted is a source? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #122

Like I said, stop finding reasons to blame the POOR. Zalatix May 2012 #126

Find an instance where I said the poor are to blame for this 4th law of robotics May 2012 #130

Post #11. Zalatix May 2012 #132

I will repost it here: 4th law of robotics May 2012 #138

Once again you just don't get what is happening in Greece. Zalatix May 2012 #145

You keep repeating your argument, sans evidence 4th law of robotics May 2012 #148

The working class pays their taxes through payroll deduction. katsy May 2012 #206

More brilliant deductive work. girl gone mad May 2012 #38

That is a really weak argument 4th law of robotics May 2012 #49

I showed you the Greek data from before the crisis. girl gone mad May 2012 #71

Before the crisis, the Greek government could hide the problems by cooking the books. FarCenter May 2012 #73

And yet government debt levels remained stable.. girl gone mad May 2012 #75

Excellent, thank you! sabrina 1 May 2012 #89

We should rename you to girl gone sane. Zalatix May 2012 #134

One other thing.. girl gone mad May 2012 #77

The excerpt in the OP paints a bad picture of the article cthulu2016 May 2012 #16

I guess i should have known people wouldnt read the whole thing.. Lars77 May 2012 #21

I sometimes use four paragraphs from later on in a piece cthulu2016 May 2012 #27

Ok i thought i HAD to use the first paragraphs. :) Lars77 May 2012 #35

Besides a few goats, olive trees, fishing the Agean, and tourists, what do they live on? FarCenter May 2012 #36

Largest merchant navy in the world by tonnage Prometheus Bound May 2012 #44

22% of Greek controlled ships fly the Greek flag FarCenter May 2012 #60

You seem to be undermining your own argument by giving us an example of tax evasion by the rich. HiPointDem May 2012 #63

The Greek merchant marine is Greek in ownership only FarCenter May 2012 #65

As I said, you seem to be undermining your own argument. HiPointDem May 2012 #83

The shipping industry employs 250,000 people in Greece. Prometheus Bound May 2012 #85

bullshit. greece's population density is about half that of germany, england, or switzerland. HiPointDem May 2012 #58

Greece imports 40% of its food and all of its fossil fuels. FarCenter May 2012 #61

self-sufficiency is measured by *production*, not by imports. If I import 40% and export 40%, am HiPointDem May 2012 #62

I believe that its imports net of exports are 40% of consumption in Greece. FarCenter May 2012 #64

As I said, food self-sufficiency is measured by *production* not by imports. Greece is self- HiPointDem May 2012 #66

"but it relies heavily on meat and dairy imports" doesn't sound like self sufficiency FarCenter May 2012 #68

Thank you for the revised link. The report contains a similar table for food products only, HiPointDem May 2012 #80

Its the REVENUE stupid: RICH GREEKS dont pay TAXES ErikJ May 2012 #41

Neither do the poor or middle class 4th law of robotics May 2012 #52

No, it's not the revenue. girl gone mad May 2012 #53

+1 HiPointDem May 2012 #57

What? WRONG WRONG WRONG ErikJ May 2012 #87

+1 nt Javaman May 2012 #115

Taxes keep money in the economy? girl gone mad May 2012 #187

Thank You... the well off blaming the poor fascisthunter May 2012 #74

It's thinly veiled racist bigotry against southern Europeans Odin2005 May 2012 #88

And Conservative anti-govt/tax propaganda ErikJ May 2012 #91

Exactly, it is so obviously racist bigotry, same as we get here from the far Right whenever sabrina 1 May 2012 #141

GS Banksters sold Greece CDSwaps and then shorted them exploding Greek debt. ErikJ May 2012 #93

The fact that you have an accomplice doesn't absolve you from the crime. FarCenter May 2012 #100

I think this is the source of much of the information in the article arikara May 2012 #96

Thank you, that is an excellent article. Naomi Klein described this kind of predatory sabrina 1 May 2012 #142

Good information; so if they had a working tax system, they'd be in reasonable shape bhikkhu May 2012 #104

That's certainly an odd conclusion to reach. girl gone mad May 2012 #199

An economic crisis exposes the unique weaknesses in any country bhikkhu May 2012 #204

DU Rec. nt woo me with science May 2012 #149

The whole "Greeks don't pay their taxes" show is a distraction. Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #175

People buy into the RW supply side propaganda Harmony Blue May 2012 #184

The stereotype about Greeks and other tropical people being lazy is based on how hot the climate is. craigmatic May 2012 #191

I was in Greece last summer jobendorfer May 2012 #194

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #207