General Discussion

bhikkhu

(10,789 posts)

104. Good information; so if they had a working tax system, they'd be in reasonable shape

Wed May 23, 2012, 12:06 AM

May 2012

...it sounds like.

Of course the entry into the EU was a bad deal all around given the circumstances, but it sounds like the main problem is a bone-headed government that doesn't collect taxes, and a dysfunctional culture that doesn't pay taxes.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

207 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Exploding the myth of the feckless, lazy Greeks [View all] Lars77 May 2012 OP

du rec. nt xchrom May 2012 #1

"Maria has never dodged a tax in her life." And he knows this how ? n/t PoliticAverse May 2012 #2

Poor folks pay regressive taxes: fees and sales taxes, Warpy May 2012 #3

Because of lack of evidence that she ever dodged taxes, perhaps? Zalatix May 2012 #5

If you read the article, SnowCritter May 2012 #6

I did read it and saw that it was about his mother. I'm convinced that he loves her. n/t PoliticAverse May 2012 #8

So on the one hand you have meticulously collected tax/income statistics covering generations 4th law of robotics May 2012 #12

Yes, let's blame the working class instead of the banks Zalatix May 2012 #29

I blame the voting class 4th law of robotics May 2012 #31

Ah, blame the voters, democracy. Not the rich, of course. Zalatix May 2012 #99

Who put Greece's government in power? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #110

The Government betrayed the people. Zalatix May 2012 #120

You didn't answer my question: 4th law of robotics May 2012 #123

I did answer your question. Zalatix May 2012 #127

Ah so greeks live in an authoritarian state where they have no control over their government 4th law of robotics May 2012 #128

You don't think the rich control the politicians? Zalatix May 2012 #133

If the politicians ran on a platform of putting up red light cameras 4th law of robotics May 2012 #137

Actually your argument is all backwards. Zalatix May 2012 #144

So for generations the Greeks voted for balanced budgets 4th law of robotics May 2012 #150

Your source doesn't back up your argument. Your argument is not logical. Zalatix May 2012 #156

Repeating something does not make it true 4th law of robotics May 2012 #160

Funny, that applies to you, too. Your source doesn't support your argument. Zalatix May 2012 #163

You are coming across as an inherently dishonest person 4th law of robotics May 2012 #166

Coming across as dishonest to whom? Zalatix May 2012 #169

I'm going to go ahead and put you on ignore 4th law of robotics May 2012 #168

I'm the first of many from here that you're putting on ignore. Bye! Zalatix May 2012 #170

Out of curiosity: do you deny the fact that the Greeks underpay on their taxes? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #32

I acknowledge that the rich ones do. Zalatix May 2012 #39

Ah so it's just the rich 4th law of robotics May 2012 #45

assuming their income tax system is something like ours, slightly progressive with ordinary people HiPointDem May 2012 #55

Rich Greeks, yes, just like here. Why, did you buy into the 'blame the working class sabrina 1 May 2012 #42

Assuming it's only the rich doing this is not supported by facts 4th law of robotics May 2012 #47

of course it's supported by the facts. where the rich get most of the income, they are paying HiPointDem May 2012 #56

*most* 4th law of robotics May 2012 #106

5% of the people get 50% of the income in the us and pay about 60% of the income taxes. HiPointDem May 2012 #124

Greece is now part of the US? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #125

didn't say it was. but the people with the money are responsible for the majority of income taxes, HiPointDem May 2012 #129

You can understand the confusion of course 4th law of robotics May 2012 #131

yes, i understand *your* confusion. if you acknowledge the obvious you have no argument. HiPointDem May 2012 #135

On the contrary, I have been extremely consistent and logical in my debate 4th law of robotics May 2012 #136

You have provided no evidence whatsoever of anything. I linked Greece's GINI index. HiPointDem May 2012 #143

And that would be quite relevent if we were discussing their GINI index. 4th law of robotics May 2012 #152

don't be disingenuous. HiPointDem May 2012 #186

Sorry, that is BS. sabrina 1 May 2012 #84

+1,000,000, that was very well said. Zalatix May 2012 #98

You are simply making claims 4th law of robotics May 2012 #107

What happened to Spain, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal? sabrina 1 May 2012 #114

They likewise had weak economies going in 4th law of robotics May 2012 #117

You are making the ludicrous claim that the Global Meltdown was caused by sabrina 1 May 2012 #139

No, I never said that 4th law of robotics May 2012 #154

Yes, you did say that, in Post #12. Zalatix May 2012 #159

No, I didn't. This is a lie 4th law of robotics May 2012 #165

So what did cause the meltdown? sabrina 1 May 2012 #172

Where did the bailout money, forced on the Greeks by the Goldman Sachs contingency sabrina 1 May 2012 #102

Why did they need bailout money 4th law of robotics May 2012 #109

Why did the US need bailout money? Why did Ireland need bailout money? sabrina 1 May 2012 #140

You keep ignoring a key point 4th law of robotics May 2012 #153

Germany is running a massive trade surplus, this is a big help to their economy. Zalatix May 2012 #167

You didn't answer the question I have asked. Why did Ireland need a bailout, why did the sabrina 1 May 2012 #173

Well the US didn't get a bailout 4th law of robotics May 2012 #176

Portugal also received a bailout. sabrina 1 May 2012 #177

Sigh, this is getting repetitive 4th law of robotics May 2012 #178

The Greeks are not in a uniquely bad place. girl gone mad May 2012 #179

"You need to explain how taking more money out of the Greek private sector through taxation" 4th law of robotics May 2012 #181

Finally, so the Global Meltdown caused by corrupt Wall Street sabrina 1 May 2012 #188

I. Never. Said. Greece. Was. At. Fault. For. The. Global. Economic. Meltdown 4th law of robotics May 2012 #189

Lol, 'am I deranged'? sabrina 1 May 2012 #190

"Disagreeing with someone does not make them 'deranged'. " 4th law of robotics May 2012 #192

Start here and follow the subthread: sabrina 1 May 2012 #193

Yes, I pointed out that tax evasion has been a problem for Greece 4th law of robotics May 2012 #195

Point out where you made a clear statement refuting the Right Wing claim sabrina 1 May 2012 #196

So you're lying then? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #201

Also the OP *never said the greeks were responsible for global problems* 4th law of robotics May 2012 #202

So to summarize what I've stated now 3 dozen times: 4th law of robotics May 2012 #203

Ultra Rec!!! Zalatix May 2012 #4

(Sniffle) Reminds me of my mom SunSeeker May 2012 #7

Thanks! I've been wondering about this Corporate Media (1%) hit on the Greeks. Peace Patriot May 2012 #9

That might explode the myth of a single Greek taxpayer Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #10

"Greece is getting austerity, no matter what happens." Lars77 May 2012 #14

So where is all this magical money going to come from? Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #15

The Greeks are victims. I thought it seemed like you didnt really give a shit. Lars77 May 2012 #17

In other words, you have nothing. Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #18

I have nothing? I havent even tried to argue with you so calm down. Lars77 May 2012 #22

Minor correction. The 'Colonels Regime' ended in 1974, not 1979 RZM May 2012 #54

Right :) Lars77 May 2012 #69

The Greeks are switching to a barter system. How's that for "nothing"? Zalatix May 2012 #30

That's actually worse than nothing. nt Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #37

For the rich, yeah. Zalatix May 2012 #40

Actually, the rich are probably running the black market. Javaman May 2012 #116

Where did the USA's "magical money" come from? girl gone mad May 2012 #28

The same place we are getting all of katsy May 2012 #103

Well said. girl gone mad May 2012 #180

I have a friend leaving for Greece next week. katsy May 2012 #205

"expressing resistance" 4th law of robotics May 2012 #20

They did it to themselves? girl gone mad May 2012 #34

You have hit on what you seem to believe is a point so you're posting it over and over again 4th law of robotics May 2012 #50

Actually, the financial collapse did cause these problems. girl gone mad May 2012 #59

except that there are still fewer jobs in the us than when bush ii took office. HiPointDem May 2012 #92

Yes, we have only muddled through. girl gone mad May 2012 #95

So nothing the greeks did prior to this in any way made them particularly vulnerable to the economic 4th law of robotics May 2012 #113

as I have said repeatedly.. girl gone mad May 2012 #182

The Maastricht treaty was signed in 1993 4th law of robotics May 2012 #183

Did you take any time to read the piece I linked to? girl gone mad May 2012 #197

And this is why I get irritated 4th law of robotics May 2012 #200

Ireland, Spain, Iceland, France, Portugal and the rest? They have no problems? sabrina 1 May 2012 #111

Please compile a list of nations not affected by the financial collapse 4th law of robotics May 2012 #112

That's her point. Greece was affected, and that's why they're in trouble. Zalatix May 2012 #146

Greece was affected 4th law of robotics May 2012 #147

If Greece had chosen a Keynesian approach* instead of austerity Zalatix May 2012 #151

Again, time flows in one direction 4th law of robotics May 2012 #155

Okay let me explain this slowly. Zalatix May 2012 #157

"Since you are all hung up on the flow of time:" 4th law of robotics May 2012 #162

Every other nation was able to fix their own economies? O'RLY??? ROTFLMAO!!! Zalatix May 2012 #171

Which nations have fixed their problems? Spain? Italy? Ireland? Portugal? sabrina 1 May 2012 #174

Careful, you'll get put on ignore like I did, lol. Zalatix May 2012 #185

Oh, good grief.. girl gone mad May 2012 #198

You bought this garbage, seriously? sabrina 1 May 2012 #43

I doubt you have the slightest idea of who pays what in Greece. Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #46

It's Greece politics and economics coming home to roost in Ireland, too? girl gone mad May 2012 #67

Has anyone ever legitimately lent money to Greece? Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #70

Way to ratchet down the discussion. girl gone mad May 2012 #72

It makes sense if you know what you are talking about. sabrina 1 May 2012 #76

Maybe you could have a few hard numbers next time. Dreamer Tatum May 2012 #78

Yes, dozens and dozens, this situation has been going on for several years, where would sabrina 1 May 2012 #81

Sabrina.. girl gone mad May 2012 #86

Thank you! Roubini's statement here is what most actual economists have been sabrina 1 May 2012 #90

Yes, I do remember.. girl gone mad May 2012 #94

Why did Greece remain mired in depression despite these significant bailout packages? girl gone mad May 2012 #82

Thank you. It's depressing to see anyone falling for this sabrina 1 May 2012 #101

"We KNOW the wealthy in Greece pay no taxes just like here" 4th law of robotics May 2012 #51

GE pays taxes? sabrina 1 May 2012 #79

GE = all wealthy people? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #105

Let's add Bank of America to that list. Zalatix May 2012 #161

You're citing companies, when I'm talking about personal income taxes 4th law of robotics May 2012 #164

I wonder what the right wing thinks of this? CreekDog May 2012 #158

Personal anecdotes don't trump the fact that for generations the Greeks have 4th law of robotics May 2012 #11

Like me saying "The Americans" have skipped out on paying their full share Lars77 May 2012 #13

Using loopholes to their maximum is not the same 4th law of robotics May 2012 #19

Yup. I guess that's what happens when you don't trust the government to take care of you. Lars77 May 2012 #23

Well they report working the most 4th law of robotics May 2012 #24

"You get the government you deserve. " Lars77 May 2012 #25

Yep, pretty much every election 4th law of robotics May 2012 #26

More than likely that whole 1/3 is due to the rich skipping taxes. Zalatix May 2012 #33

Speculation 4th law of robotics May 2012 #48

And you have no source for your claims. Zalatix May 2012 #97

" And you have no source for your claims." Except for you know the source I provided 4th law of robotics May 2012 #108

And you ignored the proof that I showed that you're wrong. Zalatix May 2012 #118

Please post the comment number where you provided objective third party proof 4th law of robotics May 2012 #119

Post #97. Now stop blaming the poor. Because I will always come back and defend them. Zalatix May 2012 #121

Wait, seriously? You think that article you posted is a source? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #122

Like I said, stop finding reasons to blame the POOR. Zalatix May 2012 #126

Find an instance where I said the poor are to blame for this 4th law of robotics May 2012 #130

Post #11. Zalatix May 2012 #132

I will repost it here: 4th law of robotics May 2012 #138

Once again you just don't get what is happening in Greece. Zalatix May 2012 #145

You keep repeating your argument, sans evidence 4th law of robotics May 2012 #148

The working class pays their taxes through payroll deduction. katsy May 2012 #206

More brilliant deductive work. girl gone mad May 2012 #38

That is a really weak argument 4th law of robotics May 2012 #49

I showed you the Greek data from before the crisis. girl gone mad May 2012 #71

Before the crisis, the Greek government could hide the problems by cooking the books. FarCenter May 2012 #73

And yet government debt levels remained stable.. girl gone mad May 2012 #75

Excellent, thank you! sabrina 1 May 2012 #89

We should rename you to girl gone sane. Zalatix May 2012 #134

One other thing.. girl gone mad May 2012 #77

The excerpt in the OP paints a bad picture of the article cthulu2016 May 2012 #16

I guess i should have known people wouldnt read the whole thing.. Lars77 May 2012 #21

I sometimes use four paragraphs from later on in a piece cthulu2016 May 2012 #27

Ok i thought i HAD to use the first paragraphs. :) Lars77 May 2012 #35

Besides a few goats, olive trees, fishing the Agean, and tourists, what do they live on? FarCenter May 2012 #36

Largest merchant navy in the world by tonnage Prometheus Bound May 2012 #44

22% of Greek controlled ships fly the Greek flag FarCenter May 2012 #60

You seem to be undermining your own argument by giving us an example of tax evasion by the rich. HiPointDem May 2012 #63

The Greek merchant marine is Greek in ownership only FarCenter May 2012 #65

As I said, you seem to be undermining your own argument. HiPointDem May 2012 #83

The shipping industry employs 250,000 people in Greece. Prometheus Bound May 2012 #85

bullshit. greece's population density is about half that of germany, england, or switzerland. HiPointDem May 2012 #58

Greece imports 40% of its food and all of its fossil fuels. FarCenter May 2012 #61

self-sufficiency is measured by *production*, not by imports. If I import 40% and export 40%, am HiPointDem May 2012 #62

I believe that its imports net of exports are 40% of consumption in Greece. FarCenter May 2012 #64

As I said, food self-sufficiency is measured by *production* not by imports. Greece is self- HiPointDem May 2012 #66

"but it relies heavily on meat and dairy imports" doesn't sound like self sufficiency FarCenter May 2012 #68

Thank you for the revised link. The report contains a similar table for food products only, HiPointDem May 2012 #80

Its the REVENUE stupid: RICH GREEKS dont pay TAXES ErikJ May 2012 #41

Neither do the poor or middle class 4th law of robotics May 2012 #52

No, it's not the revenue. girl gone mad May 2012 #53

+1 HiPointDem May 2012 #57

What? WRONG WRONG WRONG ErikJ May 2012 #87

+1 nt Javaman May 2012 #115

Taxes keep money in the economy? girl gone mad May 2012 #187

Thank You... the well off blaming the poor fascisthunter May 2012 #74

It's thinly veiled racist bigotry against southern Europeans Odin2005 May 2012 #88

And Conservative anti-govt/tax propaganda ErikJ May 2012 #91

Exactly, it is so obviously racist bigotry, same as we get here from the far Right whenever sabrina 1 May 2012 #141

GS Banksters sold Greece CDSwaps and then shorted them exploding Greek debt. ErikJ May 2012 #93

The fact that you have an accomplice doesn't absolve you from the crime. FarCenter May 2012 #100

I think this is the source of much of the information in the article arikara May 2012 #96

Thank you, that is an excellent article. Naomi Klein described this kind of predatory sabrina 1 May 2012 #142

Good information; so if they had a working tax system, they'd be in reasonable shape bhikkhu May 2012 #104

That's certainly an odd conclusion to reach. girl gone mad May 2012 #199

An economic crisis exposes the unique weaknesses in any country bhikkhu May 2012 #204

DU Rec. nt woo me with science May 2012 #149

The whole "Greeks don't pay their taxes" show is a distraction. Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #175

People buy into the RW supply side propaganda Harmony Blue May 2012 #184

The stereotype about Greeks and other tropical people being lazy is based on how hot the climate is. craigmatic May 2012 #191

I was in Greece last summer jobendorfer May 2012 #194

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #207