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Hortensis

(58,785 posts)

152. I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Fri Nov 6, 2015, 04:58 AM

Nov 2015

Although the GOP establishment is determined to keep Obama from having credit for any achievements, of course, as the party of business they are for the TPP.

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Full Text of TPP Released to Public... And It's HORRIBLE [View all] Segami Nov 2015 OP

The American people have at least 60 days to examine the proposed TPP Hortensis Nov 2015 #1

BEFORE he can sign it? Baitball Blogger Nov 2015 #3

Nope. And ITM, please don't trust sensationalist doomsday stories. Hortensis Nov 2015 #8

Huh? Unknown Beatle Nov 2015 #96

"And then there's this" from WHAT, though? Hortensis Nov 2015 #100

Oh, I get it now. Unknown Beatle Nov 2015 #110

Please send pictures. :) Hortensis Nov 2015 #122

Okay Unknown Beatle Nov 2015 #125

The view is spectacular, I have to admit. :) Easy maintenance yard, too. Hortensis Nov 2015 #126

It's a damn nightmare for sure. BeanMusical Nov 2015 #196

My god are you delusional n/t moonbeam23 Nov 2015 #120

Moonbeam, I'm not sure what to make of that. Hortensis Nov 2015 #124

i've been here since 2004 at least moonbeam23 Nov 2015 #134

Okay. I do feel that is quite an exaggeration, though. Hortensis Nov 2015 #155

Not officially NobodyHere Nov 2015 #9

I think we can assume they will, ultimately on behalf of business. Hortensis Nov 2015 #44

It has been public knowledge for months that Obama is fighting with the GOP for this pos. cui bono Nov 2015 #147

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Hortensis Nov 2015 #152

I mean what I said. Obama and the GOP are working together in the fight for TPP. n/t cui bono Nov 2015 #189

Okay. Yes, they definitely are, just not for all the same reasons. Hortensis Nov 2015 #190

The deck has been stacked to slide it through unimpeded. Theoretically it might not be enacted ... GoneFishin Nov 2015 #11

It's a done deal. We're in Kabuki mode now. jeff47 Nov 2015 #87

What happens if there is a massive public protest organized in the coming weeks over this? Baitball Blogger Nov 2015 #94

Nothing. jeff47 Nov 2015 #95

BUT the party is in a battle for the future of America. Hortensis Nov 2015 #108

:rofl: jeff47 Nov 2015 #109

Pffft. What a crock. BO went to bat for TPP, blew his complete wad of political capital on it. GoneFishin Nov 2015 #168

you need a SOPA style or FCC style protest joshcryer Nov 2015 #116

It's his "legacy" hifiguy Nov 2015 #129

So you believe our president betrayed America for 50 pieces of silver. Hortensis Nov 2015 #158

Not believe, know for certain. GoneFishin Nov 2015 #169

You mean like the ones prior to the Iraq war? truebrit71 Nov 2015 #185

I guess what bothers me is why don't they quote the trouble aspects from the agreement, instead of still_one Nov 2015 #102

Perhaps ... We should compile a list of, or at least, ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #174

Krugman was a big cheerleader for NAFTA, bvar22 Nov 2015 #197

Does that mean he cannot be objective in his analysis of TPP? ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #198

You asked, I answered, clearly and unambiguously, with reputable sources. bvar22 Nov 2015 #199

How is your NOT responding to the question ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #200

Here is the Sierra Club's initial analysis. progressoid Nov 2015 #188

I just started reading it ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #2

do you have a link to the actual document please. Sunlei Nov 2015 #12

Here it is. pampango Nov 2015 #16

Thank you. was so much on https://ustr.gov/ , I couldn't find the plain text :P Sunlei Nov 2015 #22

Thanks still_one Nov 2015 #105

Link is in the OP but here it is again Jim Lane Nov 2015 #30

Thank you, yes I found it, & got lost in the letters over some fish callad 'Basa' Vietnam will Sunlei Nov 2015 #43

They agree to us USA food safety regulations? Glorioski, that sounds almost...like a good thing. nt Hekate Nov 2015 #58

yes, & some of the drug 'deals' use Canadas much better than USA consumer RX drug 'laws' Sunlei Nov 2015 #60

OH NOES, CANADA?! No true Murkin would ever buy drugs from Canada...oh, wait. Hekate Nov 2015 #62

Just don't look at the part regarding intellectual property rights on those drugs. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #81

yes, the USA has a lot wrong with 'rights on meds' thats why its better to use Canada's and other Sunlei Nov 2015 #85

It doesn't use Canada's laws. It uses more-or-less US laws. jeff47 Nov 2015 #91

Japan has better food safety regulations Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #80

Dolphins don't think so Sunlei Nov 2015 #88

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #90

It does to Dolphins! Sunlei Nov 2015 #92

OMG that has been an epic 10-year absurd fight Recursion Nov 2015 #154

It's huge still_one Nov 2015 #103

Any thing- ruffburr Nov 2015 #4

Well, how do you spell "60 days to examine"? I'm not reading it myself, Hortensis Nov 2015 #6

Like the Iran nuclear deal? Every treaty is negotiated without your or my involvement. randome Nov 2015 #7

Granted. Now, which will have more of an impact on your life? Scootaloo Nov 2015 #135

Probably the Iran deal. I haven't seen much different from our existing trade agreements yet (nt) Recursion Nov 2015 #153

More Here: WillyT Nov 2015 #5

Thom Hartmann Punx Nov 2015 #10

Yeah I'll be talking to mine this week. Nt F4lconF16 Nov 2015 #17

... AzDar Nov 2015 #13

I like these "firsts" quite a bit. USA already has these rules but some other TPPcountries do not. Sunlei Nov 2015 #14

Gee, acceptable working conditions and no forced labor? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked... Hekate Nov 2015 #59

OK with me if we call it Obamatrade :P Sunlei Nov 2015 #63

Just don't look too closely on the recent forced labor report on Malaysia. jeff47 Nov 2015 #78

"discourage imports of goods produced by forced labor " Now that's some tough language. rhett o rick Nov 2015 #97

Hillary will tell them to cut it out. n/t Admiral Loinpresser Nov 2015 #101

Just what I was thinking. Corporations are benevolent. They would never do any harm to us. Enthusiast Nov 2015 #121

This is a "first commitment" for some of these countries.Can you find what happens in the TPP text? Sunlei Nov 2015 #106

Much more important is the required changes to Vietnam, Malaysia, and Brunei's laws Recursion Nov 2015 #162

Better than what existed before. With Obama, it's never good enough. Hoyt Nov 2015 #165

"discourage"? That doesn't sound very toothsome tkmorris Nov 2015 #132

Check out the changes to domestic law Malaysia and Brunei have to make to ratify Recursion Nov 2015 #167

Regulations, rules and laws are nothing w/o enforcement. nm rhett o rick Nov 2015 #181

Yeah, that's what those "secret tribunals" people complain about are for Recursion Nov 2015 #183

We need to start calling this ObamaTrade fbc Nov 2015 #15

That's what Thom Hartmann suggested Populist_Prole Nov 2015 #19

The republican base is way ahead of you on this. pampango Nov 2015 #21

I guess Republicans ciggie Corps, don't want plain pack ciggies like they have in Australia :P Sunlei Nov 2015 #45

'We now have concrete evidence that the Trans-Pacific Partnership threatens our families..... blackspade Nov 2015 #18

And now they caution us Fairgo Nov 2015 #50

Or, contrariwise, you can read it for yourself like the free citizen you are. nt Hekate Nov 2015 #61

Sure! That way you can not know that Malaysia has slave labor jeff47 Nov 2015 #73

I look forward to the citations, as we used to call them in Ye Olde Days. Hekate Nov 2015 #82

Don't ask for what you do not want to see. jeff47 Nov 2015 #84

Errrrrr.. uhhhmmmm frylock Nov 2015 #133

Thats embarrassing Fairgo Nov 2015 #164

Have you seen the legal changes Malaysia has agreed to make? Recursion Nov 2015 #170

Yes, and I expect them to be utterly toothless, since we went ahead and jeff47 Nov 2015 #184

And they're still telling us to just wait until it can be explained to us. /eyes RedCappedBandit Nov 2015 #175

so it can still be voided or voted down? barbtries Nov 2015 #20

Yup... SoapBox Nov 2015 #24

The U.S. won't be included unless Congress approves, but the path is greased. Jim Lane Nov 2015 #34

Not really. jeff47 Nov 2015 #68

Technically it can be voted down, but not likely with the Corps controlling most of Congress. nm rhett o rick Nov 2015 #128

Sickening. SoapBox Nov 2015 #23

Are you kidding? Plucketeer Nov 2015 #32

I'm guessing "sickening" doesn't know, just feels it in the gut? :) Hortensis Nov 2015 #40

Maybe she meant to say 'Mold Standard'? AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #47

Or "Old" standard Plucketeer Nov 2015 #53

LOL, did they write this "article" before it was even released, just had it ready to go! snooper2 Nov 2015 #25

Surely responsible journalists and commentators would have read it all the way through first. Right? Hekate Nov 2015 #64

No aspirant Nov 2015 #148

It doesn't take long to confirm the leaked chapters are in the final agreement. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #79

I'm surprised the corporate DUers haven't jumped to Obama and Hillary's defense on this one. jalan48 Nov 2015 #26

Oh shucks. Generic insults are pass�. Try again. Hekate Nov 2015 #65

It's not genetic. jalan48 Nov 2015 #66

Ge-ner-ic Hekate Nov 2015 #69

My bad on the spell check. jalan48 Nov 2015 #72

But Woody likes it! OnyxCollie Nov 2015 #27

This land ain't your land n/t IDemo Nov 2015 #31

I always found that avatar ironic Fairgo Nov 2015 #55

You should read it, parts of it are facinating to me like this letter (here) about fish trade. Sunlei Nov 2015 #39

Ahhh, catfish. Very tasty... Hekate Nov 2015 #67

It looks to me that the only commitment in the text you have is to talk and come to some agreement in the future. salib Nov 2015 #137

if it is as bad as it appears, restorefreedom Nov 2015 #28

Where does it a"appear" to be bad? Please explain what is so "horrible." Corporate take over??? kelliekat44 Nov 2015 #143

are you sure you are in the right place? restorefreedom Nov 2015 #151

I too feel heart broken olddots Nov 2015 #29

I am truly impressed at how fast you've all read it all the way through. Hekate Nov 2015 #33

If you KNOW it is bad, or if you KNOW it is good, it does not take long for find confirmation. pampango Nov 2015 #36

All foreign trade deals Marty McGraw Nov 2015 #41

Before FDR we did forego all trade deals though we weren't exactly doing just fine as a country. pampango Nov 2015 #107

Really? blackspade Nov 2015 #177

He did stop oil shipments to Japan pscot Nov 2015 #180

Well, be honest zipplewrath Nov 2015 #56

Many bad parts are already out there thanks to Wikileaks riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #52

Well at least Japan has agreed to allow imports of more french fries from the US, under this deal JPZenger Nov 2015 #35

China is not a signer or party to TPP. China would like to continue to exploit Vietnam 'workers' Sunlei Nov 2015 #42

And China will exploit Vietnam's workers. jeff47 Nov 2015 #70

Thats right and China does exploit their workers and probably will continue to off any fishing boats Sunlei Nov 2015 #75

There's a reason China is NOT a signatory. TPP links all the other Pacific nations... Hekate Nov 2015 #86

It doesn't do shit against China. jeff47 Nov 2015 #93

Several of the TPP countries already have such agreements with China: Australia, New Zealand, Chile, pampango Nov 2015 #111

It's not a declaration of war, it's a trade agreement. Hekate Nov 2015 #112

And the trade agreement could require not entering into other trade agreements. jeff47 Nov 2015 #114

It could. But does it? Hekate Nov 2015 #117

You could bother to read the last 2 sentences of that post. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #118

It most assuredly is a delcaration of war--on the 99% by the 1% n/t eridani Nov 2015 #150

The Table of Contents is a dozen pages or so. You've read the whole thing already? George II Nov 2015 #37

Leaks were already analyzed. It doesn't take long to confirm the leaked chapters are in it. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #71

So TPP is a Fascist road map for world takeover? AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #38

So is that what you think? nm rhett o rick Nov 2015 #98

Corporate government = fascism AgingAmerican Nov 2015 #140

I agree. I thought that you were being facetious in the other post. nm rhett o rick Nov 2015 #146

The tea party folks think it is a Socialist road map for world takeover. pampango Nov 2015 #113

It's always heartwarming to see the far right and the far left shake hands. nt Hekate Nov 2015 #115

It is more feudal than fascist. hifiguy Nov 2015 #130

well knock me over with a feather! I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! marym625 Nov 2015 #46

Blink blink blink Phlem Nov 2015 #48

Feeling vindicated and sick at the same time. lark Nov 2015 #49

New World Order lovuian Nov 2015 #51

Boy I miss cali... riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #54

Second that Fairgo Nov 2015 #57

I have been following this closely Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #83

I'm going to stalk your name then for the next few weeks! riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #89

Here's my OP from last May Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #131

Thank you, Art_from_Ark. Outstanding OP and thread. Octafish Nov 2015 #144

Here's a more recent thread about the TPP Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #179

So let's play "Track the Tactic". Shandris Nov 2015 #74

Don't forget "pretend the language in the agreement trumps reality". jeff47 Nov 2015 #77

One has to be trained to read around the rhetoric. Lots of rhetoric. nm rhett o rick Nov 2015 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Nov 2015 #76

He's had to negotiate a treaty that Republicans will support. Octafish Nov 2015 #145

Fuckin' gold standard! polichick Nov 2015 #104

Kicked and recommended! Hear that? It's feckin' horrible! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #119

That's what you go off of? Egnever Nov 2015 #157

It sucks. It's horrible. Enthusiast Nov 2015 #163

Kneel before your corporate overlords, pigs. hifiguy Nov 2015 #123

The FIRE industries furnished most of President Obama's campaign cash. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #127

He's already said he will sign this "sometime after January" Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #141

The need to reign in corporate power is self-evident and always has been. sulphurdunn Nov 2015 #136

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #138

Paper clip collecting uppityperson Nov 2015 #139

I just wish that when a critical statement is made that it be referenced in the TPP text and be kelliekat44 Nov 2015 #142

Bernie's staff aspirant Nov 2015 #149

Boy are you going to be disapointed Egnever Nov 2015 #156

Disappointed with Hillary aspirant Nov 2015 #173

Well, to start -- he and Warren can no longer yell about it not being released until 4 years after Hoyt Nov 2015 #166

Who cares about that aspirant Nov 2015 #172

Obama Blackmailed? billhicks76 Nov 2015 #159

No, it's a fairly decent deal, and in many ways better than our current bilateral agreements Recursion Nov 2015 #171

K & R davidpdx Nov 2015 #160

I agree with Sierra about the environmental problems Recursion Nov 2015 #161

What shareholders want, shareholders get. raouldukelives Nov 2015 #176

the only "good" thing I have heard about the TPP was a few weeks ago, when I learned that the reason secondwind Nov 2015 #178

China's political influence or the influence of Chinese Money? HereSince1628 Nov 2015 #186

The corporate bootlickers love it! Rex Nov 2015 #182

Beati pauperes spiritu, dammit. BeanMusical Nov 2015 #191

You're right of course. Rex Nov 2015 #192

Yep. BeanMusical Nov 2015 #193

I got bugs from this thread! Rex Nov 2015 #194

Lol! BeanMusical Nov 2015 #195

We are so fucked. BeanMusical Nov 2015 #187