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Igel

(37,493 posts)
35. One of these things is not like the other.
Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:43 PM
Nov 2015

And since there are two, it's not a problem to point to the dissimilar things.

Downing the plane is defense of airspace. After repeated warnings that Russian pilots have ignored (they have rights but not responsibilities), they were fired upon. That's on their heads and those of their commanders.

Killing the pilots as they parachuted down doesn't have the same status. However, not all tribal cultures have signed on to the Geneva Conventions or the ideas of "modern" warfare.

At the same time, without defending the Turkmen tribesmen, I can understand them: These were their enemies, those who (impersonally) were trying to kill people just like those who did the shooting. If the Russians had touched down, would they have just surrendered or engaged in a firefight that could have killed Turkmen? It's really a strange idea to say, "Hey, they were trying to kill me, so I'll be nice to them. Heck, I'll even let them shoot at me and maybe kill me, just out of fairness. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt--maybe they won't try to kill us, and if they surrender maybe Russia won't launch a raid that gets us killed when we don't just practice catch-and-release."

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

what is BNO News? librechik Nov 2015 #1
BNO from Wiki LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #8
"Breaking News On" Are_grits_groceries Nov 2015 #11
thanks--I found a Reuters link below. Soon to be confirmed, no doubt... librechik Nov 2015 #14
Omg .... polly7 Nov 2015 #2
What is who trying to provoke? maxsolomon Nov 2015 #37
Cowardly? Cowardly is... mwrguy Nov 2015 #80
I don't believe it. The "rebels" would love to get them alive. nt thereismore Nov 2015 #3
Who was shooting? Turks? Kurds? Syrians? JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2015 #4
Syrian Turkmen rebels. Chan790 Nov 2015 #6
Did they land in Turkey or Syria? Renew Deal Nov 2015 #9
Syria. Chan790 Nov 2015 #17
A question... msrizzo Nov 2015 #28
That seems to be the case, yes. n/t Chan790 Nov 2015 #32
what do you mean by "us?" librechik Nov 2015 #7
By "us", of course, I mean Democrats JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2015 #24
If the Turks did it, it was "us" librechik Nov 2015 #26
Casus belli is a Latin expression meaning "An act or event that provokes or is used to justify war". saturnsring Nov 2015 #31
Unwarranted incursion into sovereign airspace is indeed a causus belli LanternWaste Nov 2015 #33
They shot the plane down in matter of seconds darkangel218 Nov 2015 #63
And Moscow has been repeatedly warned over the last 72 hours to avoid Turkish airspace LanternWaste Nov 2015 #71
That still doesn't explain why the plane was shot down within matter of seconds. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #72
If the jet had been hitting targets near the Turkish border that Turkey did not want hit, they may CentralMass Nov 2015 #76
Its more than obvious that Turkey has a problem with Russia going after ISIS. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #77
Th Russians are also htting non ISIS Syrîan rebels who are trying to over throw Assad. CentralMass Nov 2015 #84
ISIS is trying to "overthrow" Assad. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #85
In this case Russia went after Turkmen who had taken a Syrian government position. bluedigger Nov 2015 #90
Sometimes, I think "The Turks can't possibly find another way to be the pain in the ass of NATO." Chan790 Nov 2015 #5
"Turkmen forces in Syria shot dead pilots of downed Russian jet". Russia has been bombing Turkmen pampango Nov 2015 #10
Here is a Reuters link librechik Nov 2015 #12
How awful to shoot them in the air like that... cwydro Nov 2015 #13
Well, they had been bombing people, after all. bluedigger Nov 2015 #91
I know that. I'd probably feel the same toward them. cwydro Nov 2015 #92
I guess I would take getting shot madville Nov 2015 #15
Is Saudi Arabia and member of NATO too? Democat Nov 2015 #16
Saudi Arabia is not a NATO member iandhr Nov 2015 #19
But they might as well be. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #53
Vladimir Putin vents fury as Turkey downs Russian jet and pilot is shot at while descending polly7 Nov 2015 #18
Reports now that the rebels have shot down a Russian search and rescue helicopter Ex Lurker Nov 2015 #21
FFS. polly7 Nov 2015 #22
. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #52
Putin seems overly emotional, and rather hysterical LanternWaste Nov 2015 #73
Haven't the Russians been bombing these rebels? panader0 Nov 2015 #20
Damn, that's sickening packman Nov 2015 #23
Thats exactly how i feel. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #50
with all due respect... mike_c Nov 2015 #54
And by the Geneva protocol, they should have been aprehended and held as POWs darkangel218 Nov 2015 #55
no, not if they were armed and were not surrendering... mike_c Nov 2015 #56
They were shot IN THE AIR, as they were parachuting. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #57
I understand that.... mike_c Nov 2015 #58
I hear you. I blame Turkey for shooting the plane to begin with. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #61
Putin chose to ignore international law and protocol... it really is that simple LanternWaste Nov 2015 #74
If you are going to shoot down a jet, at least give them time to clear your air space! darkangel218 Nov 2015 #75
And read this, for clarifiation: darkangel218 Nov 2015 #62
well again, in fairness... mike_c Nov 2015 #66
It doesnt matter what type of plane it was! you give them time to change route! darkangel218 Nov 2015 #68
Who balances with turkey against russia? I don't know Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #78
Fucking morons... Blue_Tires Nov 2015 #25
Yup, darkangel218 Nov 2015 #27
As well as Moscow... LanternWaste Nov 2015 #29
One of these things is not like the other. Igel Nov 2015 #35
It was the Syrian rebels who killed the pilots, not Turkey. randome Nov 2015 #39
Turkey shot the plane down. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #41
If they gave warnings that were unacknowledged, like they said, I don't fault them for that. randome Nov 2015 #42
You don't fault them for shutting down a plane on a mission to kill ISIS? darkangel218 Nov 2015 #43
The Russians have been bombing Turkmen in the area, not ISIS, for the past week. pampango Nov 2015 #46
Turkmen didnt shoot the plane down. Turkey did. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #47
Fair point. But the Russian bombers had been bombing, not ISIS, but Turkmen who were fighting ISIS. pampango Nov 2015 #48
Jeebus Christ.. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #49
You seemed to believe that the target of the bomber was relevant. I agree. pampango Nov 2015 #65
The bomber's mission was not to "kill ISIS enemies". darkangel218 Nov 2015 #67
From the articles detailing that Russia has been bombing Turkmen rebels for days rather than ISIS pampango Nov 2015 #69
maybe thats where ISIS were hiding. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #70
Breaking News! EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #30
Just a reminder ... Russia and Turkey were on opposite sides in WWI. eppur_se_muova Nov 2015 #34
I always assumed it was because post-Ataturk Turkey was nominally a secular Democratic Republic. Chan790 Nov 2015 #36
I didn't realize "secular democratic republic" engaged in genocide eissa Nov 2015 #38
Two things. Chan790 Nov 2015 #45
The Armenian Genocide was during the Ottoman Empire (1915) DFW Nov 2015 #64
Think more "the (new) enemy of my (centuries-old) enemy is my friend." nt eppur_se_muova Nov 2015 #44
Russian dislike of the Turks goes back much further. Xithras Nov 2015 #59
Yep, see the link to Wikipedia in my post. Centuries of bad blood. nt eppur_se_muova Nov 2015 #60
Reuters Reporting It Now... WillyT Nov 2015 #40
''They massacred my boy.'' Octafish Nov 2015 #51
Exactly, Octafish. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #81
War Octafish Nov 2015 #83
What are Syrian Turkmen? Renew Deal Nov 2015 #87
The second cemaphonic Nov 2015 #93
Putin will bow down to Erdogan 6chars Nov 2015 #79
Turkey violates the airspace of Greece constantly forsaken mortal Nov 2015 #82
This message was self-deleted by its author Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #86
Well if you can wage illegal wars, torture people and bomb hospitals malaise Nov 2015 #88
Turkey is going to lose planes if they try to bomb Kurds. roamer65 Nov 2015 #89
+1,000,000. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #94
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