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bettyellen

(47,209 posts)

110. not if their customs are degrading or abusive, nope.

Reply to EdwardBernays (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 26, 2015, 07:34 PM

Nov 2015

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Switzerland overwhelmingly votes for burqa ban with �6,500 fine for Muslim women who rebel [View all] philosslayer Nov 2015 OP

Europe is not a progressive utopia LittleBlue Nov 2015 #1

Try having women show their elbows in those countries that mandate the coverings. patsimp Nov 2015 #3

Not sure what you're talking about LittleBlue Nov 2015 #12

I think the poster leftynyc Nov 2015 #45

thank you for understanding what i was trying to say. patsimp Nov 2015 #99

That's not the point Alittleliberal Nov 2015 #134

No leftynyc Nov 2015 #139

Well I'm young and full of energy Alittleliberal Nov 2015 #141

I completely understand leftynyc Nov 2015 #144

I don't think all cultures are equal Alittleliberal Nov 2015 #145

All excellent points leftynyc Nov 2015 #149

^^^ spot on ^^^ Yorktown Nov 2015 #50

I think there are some Catholics in all of our countries that jwirr Nov 2015 #177

Chapel veils. ScreamingMeemie Nov 2015 #190

I knew a bit about it because I often went to services with jwirr Nov 2015 #195

In Russia they are still serious about this- and have a lattice screen at the entrance where they bettyellen Nov 2015 #196

Plus, long unbound hair was considered to be witchcraft, as the witch wasn't "bound" in her magics, Hestia Nov 2015 #203

Yes, most of the customs we women have and hate came jwirr Nov 2015 #208

Bullshit. A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #52

You group two completely diffterent things together. ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2015 #76

How do the vast majority of Europeans dress? A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #84

... cwydro Nov 2015 #87

Because its DU, and here the Pope is cursed out vigorously because he won't allow women to Drahthaardogs Nov 2015 #91

Can you show me a post where a Duer has defended stoning a woman or killing a daughter? ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2015 #102

While the ooster leftynyc Nov 2015 #136

I don't agree with forcing women to wear them. ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2015 #150

I honestly don't think leftynyc Nov 2015 #155

You have given me something to think about. ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2015 #160

That's the nicest thing leftynyc Nov 2015 #163

well put patsimp Nov 2015 #104

You are right. patsimp Nov 2015 #100

So when you go to Saudi Arabia, will you feel the same way...? pangaia Nov 2015 #111

I've lived overseas, OK? A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #123

So people allowing someone to wear a Burqa is completely modifiying their way of life. OK. nt ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2015 #124

My point....------> . A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #128

The thread and your response I replied to is about dress. ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2015 #152

Ya got me. Fair enough. It was hyperbole writ holiday alcohol large. A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #156

I hear what you are saying but you forget that we still have jwirr Nov 2015 #178

Being progressive doesn't include forcing people to wear European dress LittleBlue Nov 2015 #121

Its not religious, its cultural riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #125

if you wanted to wear a full face mask w0nderer Nov 2015 #138

It isn't? Quantess Nov 2015 #129

Good for them. patsimp Nov 2015 #2

Really? smiley Nov 2015 #5

I am sure these types would. Makes me fucking SICK to hear that shit, though randys1 Nov 2015 #28

yes patsimp Nov 2015 #101

yikes smiley Nov 2015 #113

Hate them Muslims, do we? randys1 Nov 2015 #26

Hyperbolic bullshit leftynyc Nov 2015 #46

Thanks - well put. patsimp Nov 2015 #103

...+1 840high Nov 2015 #114

Agreed! Quantess Nov 2015 #167

Randys1, you and I usually agree, but I disagree with you on this one. Squinch Nov 2015 #56

I am sure you are right, I agree. randys1 Nov 2015 #82

Exceedingly well said. hifiguy Nov 2015 #109

well put w0nderer Nov 2015 #143

No problem with a head covering. TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #97

seems to me (haven't read original text) w0nderer Nov 2015 #146

Yes, I'm fine with the law TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #171

i wonder how covered muslim women feel about women in a bathing suit patsimp Nov 2015 #105

No. I support women's equality in the public sphere, which cannot be pnwmom Nov 2015 #162

These women should decide for themselves Politicalboi Nov 2015 #35

If I thought for even one second leftynyc Nov 2015 #47

I have come to the conclusion that European Christianity came about..... A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #57

"Frankly, Arab men and those of Arab descent must have really tiny dicks,...." pangaia Nov 2015 #115

Thanks! A HERETIC I AM Nov 2015 #122

So arrest and fine the women! jberryhill Nov 2015 #75

Enable their oppressors leftynyc Nov 2015 #130

This law has no impact on men jberryhill Nov 2015 #135

It's telling them leftynyc Nov 2015 #142

I disagree that this law has no impact on men riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #170

They're not allowed to decide for themselves. Their husband or male leader of their MADem Nov 2015 #51

Ummmm, when I went to Iran dhol82 Nov 2015 #112

More slide into fascism, Patsimp. You probably Hortensis Nov 2015 #43

"You probably haven't thought this through." Squinch Nov 2015 #168

So what if the woman has to wear one because of the men in her family? Marrah_G Nov 2015 #4

There needs to be some community resources to help these women Zing Zing Zingbah Nov 2015 #24

There is no community resource. It's ostracism, death, or go along and get along. MADem Nov 2015 #55

Thank you! get the red out Nov 2015 #63

Yes, but if they are living in Switzerland Zing Zing Zingbah Nov 2015 #65

There are still no resources. Leave your family and culture and put yourself in the hands of MADem Nov 2015 #67

So are you telling me the answer is to just allow this to continue Zing Zing Zingbah Nov 2015 #71

No, the answer is to arrest and fine the women jberryhill Nov 2015 #73

Yeah, and don't forget about the horrible concept of 'honor killing' PatrickforO Nov 2015 #117

I know some very 'on trend' young Persian fellows--they and their MADem Nov 2015 #164

No, the women need to be arrested and fined jberryhill Nov 2015 #74

While I don't necessarily agree with the fine, it would not be the women who are fined. Squinch Nov 2015 #90

Okay... jberryhill Nov 2015 #95

But she has no money. He would have to pay it. No one would have to testify that he made her Squinch Nov 2015 #148

Great point, as usual the Woman is caught between a backward thinking male and his randys1 Nov 2015 #29

What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that cultural traditions passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #161

^^THIS^^ Android3.14 Nov 2015 #70

I expect they want such men out of Switzerland. And I can't say I disagree with them. Marr Nov 2015 #77

Ticino is not a terribly liberal BlueMTexpat Nov 2015 #6

Thank you for your input. Very much appreciated. /nt think Nov 2015 #34

I see it is governed by conservative parties and is the only pampango Nov 2015 #54

And many on this very board are down with it. n/t Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #173

Sad but true. n/t pampango Nov 2015 #175

Bigots. NCTraveler Nov 2015 #7

The Swiss prize conformity. For Example there's an "approved list" for naming children riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #8

I love Switzerland, but OMG... meaculpa2011 Nov 2015 #14

Our pool at the club did that to when we were younger. yeoman6987 Nov 2015 #27

The title of the article is BlueMTexpat Nov 2015 #44

I realize its only one canton. Thanks for your excellent perspective! nt riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #72

Might check out #6 and ensuing comments. Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #182

Does the Quran say anything specific about burqas? daredtowork Nov 2015 #9

There isn't. It's a cultural garment, not religious riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #10

So not even a religious requirement, just an asshole MALE Requirement randys1 Nov 2015 #30

i knew that.. ditto on the rest. juxtaposed Nov 2015 #32

Historically female face covering was only done by wealthy women as a symbol of snagglepuss Nov 2015 #39

you got it patsimp Nov 2015 #107

No leftynyc Nov 2015 #48

I find it oppressive that the burqa is usually black, while the men wear the lighter colors woodsprite Nov 2015 #11

Actually, for flowing clothes, at worst it doesn't matter and at best black is preferential. redgreenandblue Nov 2015 #79

I like it. FLPanhandle Nov 2015 #13

I'm gonna go with you. cwydro Nov 2015 #25

Really, though, no one has any problem with a head covering. It's these tents that Squinch Nov 2015 #59

+1 get the red out Nov 2015 #64

I agree. cwydro Nov 2015 #88

As one poster has stated twice, pangaia Nov 2015 #118

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #15

I have seen Burqa worn here in San Francisco yuiyoshida Nov 2015 #16

Nobody gives a full body burqa a second look? I have to doubt that KittyWampus Nov 2015 #17

I have walked around the downtown yuiyoshida Nov 2015 #18

I don't think I could tell who Go Vols Nov 2015 #20

same repression, No less I feel juxtaposed Nov 2015 #33

I think it is very, very different. A burqua erases a woman's identity. And that is its purpose. Squinch Nov 2015 #61

Even the simple chador is OBVIOUS as hell. MADem Nov 2015 #53

I frequently see women here in burqas walking their kids to elementary school arcane1 Nov 2015 #176

but they can still wear headscarf and other things ? JI7 Nov 2015 #19

Every woman in Ticino should wear one KamaAina Nov 2015 #21

Yes. +1 Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #22

So all women leftynyc Nov 2015 #49

That made it impossible for the Nazis to identify actual Jews. KamaAina Nov 2015 #96

I agree what the leftynyc Nov 2015 #131

I love it.. :>)))) pangaia Nov 2015 #120

We have a lot of Somali Muslims in my community. Zing Zing Zingbah Nov 2015 #23

There are many women who wear them in an area where I work. The burquas are freaking hazards. Squinch Nov 2015 #62

Actually, the burqa is a practical piece of clothing for a person living in a desert. redgreenandblue Nov 2015 #80

Ain't no way anyone should be crossing a busy Bronx intersection with three or four kids in tow Squinch Nov 2015 #94

And they are ridiculous in high heat and humidity TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #98

Many desert tribes wear little to nothing - Australia, Africa riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #127

Why aren't the men all wearing them? Marrah_G Nov 2015 #137

Then why don't we see men wearing them? (n/t) Retrograde Nov 2015 #147

This is one of the posts that I don't know what to think. Guess I have to get educated on it. BlueJazz Nov 2015 #31

The garment is cultural, not religious. riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #36

I see your point. (didn't know that) "Its designed to erase women from society" BlueJazz Nov 2015 #37

Historically only wealthy women masked their faces as the masses were snagglepuss Nov 2015 #40

Burqas kcjohn1 Nov 2015 #38

I feel similarly about this as I do about fundamentalist LDS polygamy. David__77 Nov 2015 #41

FUCKING GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!! onecent Nov 2015 #42

They should arrest men who force their wives and daughters to wear these oberliner Nov 2015 #58

+1. As long as MEN don't wear the burqa I'm all for banning it. CharlotteVale Nov 2015 #69

Headline is false, Switzerland cast no such vote, one canton did. Also the source is a UPIK Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #60

The irony EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #66

Good point. Progressives seem to value respecting the rights of others, pampango Nov 2015 #68

WELL SAID!!!! onecent Nov 2015 #86

not if their customs are degrading or abusive, nope. bettyellen Nov 2015 #110

Have you ever travelled to the Middle East? EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #119

I have chosen not to go places where the inequity is too much, and gone to others bettyellen Nov 2015 #165

It's obviously complex EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #166

I don't believe morality is fluid enough that subjugation is okay. bettyellen Nov 2015 #181

But EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #188

just because I don't expect any society to achieve perfection, does no mean that in anyway, you bettyellen Nov 2015 #192

You can of course compare them EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #193

I was specifically discussing social policies that degrade and abuse individual citizens, so nope. bettyellen Nov 2015 #194

I'm not saying that EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #197

And you are defining the subjugation of women as not "meaningful" enough. I disagree. bettyellen Nov 2015 #198

No EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #201

I won't engage in a derail from the topic of oppressive "customs" and feeling forced to tolerate bettyellen Nov 2015 #202

Right EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #204

Never said you support anything- except veering far off topic. Not pretending there are totally good bettyellen Nov 2015 #205

The fact that you are saying that EdwardBernays Nov 2015 #207

Baloney- you have no point because you were responding to what you expected me to say- bettyellen Nov 2015 #210

It should be banned for security reasons too. Waiting For Everyman Nov 2015 #78

Women are as prone as men to accept the tyranny of faith Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #81

This article seems to imply that all 40,000 Muslim women there Cal Carpenter Nov 2015 #83

They are rare in the west Marrah_G Nov 2015 #140

The government already does leftynyc Nov 2015 #151

It was one canton. And anyway, leave the Swiss ALOOOOOONE! WinkyDink Nov 2015 #85

Good. The burqa should be banned in all Western countries. Coventina Nov 2015 #89

Shame on you. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2015 #184

Sorry, not feelin' it. Coventina Nov 2015 #187

There are security concerns. moondust Nov 2015 #92

You can also hide explosives in a backpack or under a coat. Did the Paris attackers wear Burqas? ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2015 #108

True. moondust Nov 2015 #126

Yes, but that can also be done with a hat, bandana, glasses, scarf, makeup, and other various ways. ohnoyoudidnt Nov 2015 #154

A current example moondust Nov 2015 #157

Reminds me of a newspaper comic I'd seen once... Lancero Nov 2015 #93

Most of us have seen it, and it is a practically non-sequitor comparison. Quantess Nov 2015 #133

I would not want this ban in the U.S., and it's probably not good in this canton. Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #183

A full-face covering would be acceptable to you? Quantess Nov 2015 #189

The ban can only help women burdened by second-class citizenry. nt valerief Nov 2015 #106

Support an end to the oppression of women, or support the right of men to force women to wear it. cherokeeprogressive Nov 2015 #116

It's tempting to opt for an easy fix like this ban, but it doesn't help. Here is how France's 5-year tblue37 Nov 2015 #132

The burqa ban worked rather well in France Yorktown Nov 2015 #159

In what sense? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2015 #185

In the sense it makes the type of intimidationin the UK video impossible Yorktown Nov 2015 #186

OMG you are so "racist"!!!!!!! Quantess Nov 2015 #199

Clearly what Muslim women need is for a *different* group of men Recursion Nov 2015 #153

I'm not seeing much of a difference ... NanceGreggs Nov 2015 #158

That is an incredibly naive point of view. Quantess Nov 2015 #200

Would not surprise me if one of our GOP-run states did the same. pampango Nov 2015 #169

Is it technically banned in NYC? Reter Nov 2015 #172

If it is, it is not enforced. There are areas of NYC where they are quite common. Squinch Nov 2015 #209

Good decision, Switzerland. Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #174

Switzerland? Or Ticino? Iggo Nov 2015 #179

How is it intolerant for Swizerland to defend women? Matrosov Nov 2015 #180

I see nothing wrong here. romanic Nov 2015 #191

Islamophobic garbage mwrguy Nov 2015 #206