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haele

(12,693 posts)
34. That was a friend's bb-gun that had been lent to him that day.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:31 PM
Dec 2015

No one ever has told me if the friend had picked at the orange tip to remove it or if Tamir had. Kids - and a 12 year old is still a kid! - modify their toys like that all the time, especially if they think a part that otherwise does nothing looks lame on their toy.
You're still blaming the kid for 1) being 12 years old and black, 2) with a toy gun, 3) out in public on a playground by himself, where he's easy prey.

Because sure as hell, if he had not been by himself, the police would have been a lot more cautious approaching him, and he probably would have been given a warning for playing with a bb-gun, instead of being rolled up on and shot before he had a chance to react to anything.

It's rather like the "situational liability/contributing factor" insurance assessment of injured parties after the fact.
While it's both a moral and criminal wrong to assault or rob someone, and the criminal is 100% at fault, when it comes to insurance companies, not being aware of your situation or failure to take reasonable protective is a contributing factor when looking at the liability and determining "fault" for restitution determination in an insurance settlement. If your home gets robbed and a house-guest gets injured in the process, they will look at what you did to "burglar proof" your home and everything that could have been done to avoid the injury as part of their assessment on how much they are going to pay you and cover the medical bills of person being injured.
In other words, the victim's situational liability becomes a contributing factor in the pay-out for the situation.

Unfortunately, situational liability been used in courts to mitigate the "fault" of the person doing the crime, especially when the criminal comes from a class of defendants that have the resources to pay for protection from liability - like corporations, wealth, or public service.

Finding anything to blame Tamir Rice, who had not done anything that carried penalty under the law, for his own death is attempting to create a contributing factor for his murder to be his "responsibility", a tactic to lessen the accountability on the police - y'know, the cowards who drove up at high speed and fatally shot him within two seconds of swinging open a patrol car door because they saw a black youth sitting alone in a park, and "knew" he had to be a criminal thug that was a drag on society.

Might as well say that because he was playing with a bb-gun missing it's orange tip now, that is a sure indicator that in just two years, he'd have been a gun-toting gang-banger shooting up a neighborhood in a turf war, randomly killing toddlers and school kids - so it's just better to shoot him now, while he's just a lil'shorty, before he turns into a crack-smoking, heroin-dealing cold blooded thug.


If this sounds a bit hyperbolic, it's because that stereotype ends up being the underlying reasoning for most people I've discussed this with who try to say "why didn't his parents teach him how to act in public", or "he shouldn't have been on the playground with a toy gun that looked real" or "the police had a right to be in fear of their lives, how did they know he wasn't in a gang and going to shoot them..."

I have found that behind the argument that Tamir Rice bears any responsibility for the police shooting him always goes back to a race-based assumption. It's always been the "feeling" that young black men are at heart gang-bangers, no matter if they stay in the 'hood, or if they go to Harvard. And there's a certain type of law-and-order personality (not just white) that believes that young black men (and women) need to be neutered; if they aren't under strict social control, the color of their skin indicates that their true nature , which is to run wild and rampant, and they will infect good, hardworking (white) kids with their drugs and parties and casual, lazy "other-ness".
And it's very difficult to convince these people that they're fearful, ridiculously judgmental reactionaries.

Haele

That's typical of almost every website related to gunz. There's a link between racism and gunz. Hoyt Dec 2015 #1
Wow! Let's talk about Gunz... er... racism in GD! Something new! Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #2
True. We should by all means minimize the device used to kill Tamir LanternWaste Dec 2015 #3
Please see #7. Will you back such a change? If not, why not? nt Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #8
Typical response from gungeoneers. As long as you got your gunz, who cares who gets killed, shot, Hoyt Dec 2015 #4
Please inform the Hosts of GD you wanna open the forum up to Gunz... Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #7
Lol, not sure you would be fair! Nt Logical Dec 2015 #17
?? Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #36
Any excuse, however ghoulish, to indulge in hate and bigotry. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #5
Gratifying to see so many in the comment section calling bullshit, though. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #6
But... But... The Narrative®! Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #9
Oh, right...I forgot! Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #10
Maybe you should figure out why you give off that impression, because you do. I'm not trying to MillennialDem Dec 2015 #12
Me, personally? Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #13
Not you personally. Why do you think that is? And maybe you should clean house if you MillennialDem Dec 2015 #15
What do you mean by 'clean house'? Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #19
Do everything you can to purge (not literally) those members from your movement MillennialDem Dec 2015 #23
My movement? Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #28
Right after you guys purge the gun banner types from your own movement. beevul Dec 2015 #31
A gun banner is not an extremist. MillennialDem Dec 2015 #33
You must be new to gun threads. Real new. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #38
Gun ban proponents are the textbook definition of extremists. beevul Dec 2015 #42
"A gun banner is not an extremist." GGJohn Dec 2015 #44
Collective guilt is a RW value, not a progressive one hack89 Dec 2015 #39
Being a strong pro gun activist is a choice, not the same as race or sexual orientation. And we do MillennialDem Dec 2015 #41
I am not an activist. I am merely a gun owner. hack89 Dec 2015 #43
Why do some do that? I have no idea. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #29
A 12 year old is legal to open carry under Ohio law? GGJohn Dec 2015 #11
The cop's claim that they did not know or believe Tamir was a child makes that moot etherealtruth Dec 2015 #25
You nailed it gwheezie Dec 2015 #51
Almost everyone involved, included Tamir... TipTok Dec 2015 #14
No need for the kid's decision to be a fatal one, though. nomorenomore08 Dec 2015 #16
It's just really unfortunate... TipTok Dec 2015 #18
Tamir was a 12 year old kid, how the fuck did he make a bad decision ? JI7 Dec 2015 #21
A couple of things... TipTok Dec 2015 #32
That was a friend's bb-gun that had been lent to him that day. haele Dec 2015 #34
"who had not done anything that carried penalty under the law" TipTok Dec 2015 #49
12-year-olds with a toy gun don't deserve second chances MrScorpio Dec 2015 #22
Gun nuts tend to think that way Bettie Dec 2015 #20
I don't think an underage person can open carry in Ohio. Waldorf Dec 2015 #24
The cops claim that they did not know or believe Tamir was a kid etherealtruth Dec 2015 #26
Twice in this discussion so far My Good Babushka Dec 2015 #27
One would have to ask what is legal open carry? ileus Dec 2015 #37
I"m one of those that brought that up and in no way did I use it as an excuse. eom. GGJohn Dec 2015 #45
Open carry may be legal, but brandishing isn't XemaSab Dec 2015 #30
Not that it would mean much to some in this thread, but good point. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #40
There was no "brandishing" in that video. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #47
Did you watch the video I posted? XemaSab Dec 2015 #50
Yes, eom MohRokTah Dec 2015 #52
You're surprised?? Blue_Tires Dec 2015 #35
Their white supremacy is showing. eom MohRokTah Dec 2015 #46
The kid should have been more law-abiding. Like Cliven Bundy and his supporters. Rec. no text. Mc Mike Dec 2015 #48
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