General Discussion

Jim Beard

(2,535 posts)

47. Seems like I had dental pain all the time

Sun May 1, 2016, 03:29 AM

May 2016

When they started, I had very little money and they charged $90 a tooth for extraction. Managed to do that for a while as that would make me feel better for a while. It has been tough paying out all that money. I should have had them pulled all at once.

I would have saved a lot of money. I spent a fortune on crown, bridges & double bridges.

After this SOB dentist soaked me for all the above mentioned, he tried to charge me $2,100 for a lower plate. I said screw you and went to one of those discount place's and got them for $800 and a few months later I replaced the top plate that the asshole dentist made for $1500, for $500. I am eating corn on the cob and couldn't feel better.

There are some problems with the discount places but stay on them to make it right. After all, it IS money!

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I have a painful tooth that must come out (plea for help) [View all] TorchTheWitch Apr 2016 OP

I'm so sorry. stage left Apr 2016 #1

Sad! If you read down through the replies below, you'll find . . . Petrushka May 2016 #234

Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #2

who are you to judge? Skittles Apr 2016 #3

A longtime reader of DU Milestone Apr 2016 #7

you do not know her Skittles Apr 2016 #8

Oh, come on now wain Apr 2016 #20

it's more than three digits...just sayin Demonaut Apr 2016 #29

It's more than 4 and 5, too pintobean Apr 2016 #33

It's entirely possible to get to 5-digits and be a malingering asshole the entire time. Chan790 May 2016 #140

It's not a TOS violation, pintobean May 2016 #141

Just block this "longtime reader", like I did. nt silvershadow May 2016 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #64

Seriously? After the crap she pulled last time with misanthrope? Egnever Apr 2016 #18

+1 obamanut2012 May 2016 #65

What happened ? DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #108

I must have missed the Misanthrope to do. 1StrongBlackMan May 2016 #110

Misanthrope and her husband stepped up and tried to rescue the dog and help TTW in person Hekate May 2016 #120

Okay ... I vaguely remember this. ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2016 #128

she was not honest with Misanthrope about how hostile and dangerous the dog was..... bettyellen May 2016 #212

I agree.. she was not honest. Texasgal May 2016 #214

What she needs, DU cannot supply. AtheistCrusader May 2016 #216

I simply said I hope Texasgal May 2016 #219

You and I were also discussing this downthread. AtheistCrusader May 2016 #221

It's just frustration that she is still not ready to get the real help she needs. bettyellen May 2016 #223

+1 this is a big part of it, yes AtheistCrusader May 2016 #224

I am on the side Dorian Gray May 2016 #237

This is less about piling on with AtheistCrusader May 2016 #243

Actually, I think people are gleefully piling on. pintobean May 2016 #244

I stand by every single post I made. AtheistCrusader May 2016 #246

Yeah Dorian Gray May 2016 #313

Thanks Hekate malaise May 2016 #178

And you know this with 36 posts? malaise Apr 2016 #6

Yeah... and about that: Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #16

Thanks malaise Apr 2016 #17

Medicaid is for poor people and it covers everything including dental care 2naSalit May 2016 #124

In some areas it can be difficult to find a dentist who will accept Medicaid dflprincess May 2016 #182

Medicaid here Chuuku Davis May 2016 #336

You do realize that post count is not an accurate measure of length of time at DU, right? Drahthaardogs May 2016 #94

I have roughly the same story and I've been here since just after Andy passed and... ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #102

Roughly. pintobean May 2016 #104

Well, why not attempt to smoothe it out for everyone here on DU as to what... ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #256

Other things that come to mind are Drahthaardogs May 2016 #122

I feel your pain. I worked with a guy that was scared to death of doctors doc03 Apr 2016 #4

It's sad how dentists... scscholar Apr 2016 #5

You don't believe dentists should get paid for the work they do? Demit Apr 2016 #10

It's sad how dentists... always put profit above people. AlbertCat Apr 2016 #13

I went for my regular cleaning earlier this week malaise Apr 2016 #15

I hear ya....I'm thinking about taking out a car loan (low interest rate) to pay a kennedy Apr 2016 #22

Try making an implant by hand, yourself. AtheistCrusader Apr 2016 #35

perhaps this hfojvt May 2016 #50

Use that car to drive to Los Algodones Nevernose May 2016 #285

not always hfojvt May 2016 #49

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #52

Healthcare isn't considered a right. ronnie624 May 2016 #81

I'm guessing the 'scholar' bit in your nom de plume is intended as irony, yes? LanternWaste May 2016 #262

*rrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiP! snnnnnniiiiifffffffffff!* ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #266

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #9

Get some Anbesol, some good booze, and a lance. LuvLoogie Apr 2016 #11

Hi, TTW. polly7 Apr 2016 #12

Why is dental care always left out of talk about single payer nt tikka Apr 2016 #14

How is Yoshi? MoonRiver Apr 2016 #19

Yoshi is good TorchTheWitch Apr 2016 #36

The dog doesn't deserve to be kept in this situation. AtheistCrusader Apr 2016 #38

You'll be alerted for not believing this time. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #63

exactly obamanut2012 May 2016 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #62

I bookmarked that saga from last August. It's on the record. Hekate May 2016 #123

I'm so sorry you are having dental pain.. Texasgal Apr 2016 #21

thank you TorchTheWitch Apr 2016 #37

Recent Salon article: We can't keep pretending dental work is cosmetic. kskiska Apr 2016 #23

Yeah, but Medicaid does cover extractions. n/t pnwmom May 2016 #155

In March you said you'd lost work because your wifi was crap, now it's your teeth? LeftyMom Apr 2016 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #54

Yep. cwydro May 2016 #58

Kick Liberal_in_LA Apr 2016 #25

Free dental near you: LeftyMom Apr 2016 #26

I am also skeptical, given the history. And it's hard to understand pnwmom Apr 2016 #28

They would - I have had intensive surgery done at a dental school obamanut2012 May 2016 #67

While I am also skeptical of this, who does the work at the dental school may depend on what needs dflprincess May 2016 #184

Well, this was one tooth and it wasn't an impacted wisdom tooth. pnwmom May 2016 #203

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #53

It's amazing, isn't it? cwydro May 2016 #59

+100000 Hekate May 2016 #127

Where are u located? basselope Apr 2016 #27

Dentist do a lot of discount work sorefeet Apr 2016 #30

Seems like I had dental pain all the time Jim Beard May 2016 #47

Just had a tooth pulled by a top Dental Surgeon in my area because he was putting in an implant womanofthehills May 2016 #114

Plus, pulling a root-canaled tooth that is moonscape May 2016 #326

Oh for F's. Sake! 7wo7rees Apr 2016 #31

I rest my case. Here she is again ripping up this pretty amazing 7wo7rees May 2016 #187

She's trying to watch Game of Thrones 6.2 online with a crappy internet router Brother Buzz May 2016 #191

Where is your dog, Yoshi, right? 7wo7rees Apr 2016 #32

He's right here TorchTheWitch May 2016 #39

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #57

"The last time I made a plea for him he was stolen from me" obamanut2012 May 2016 #68

What a horrible, mean-spirited lie. Codeine May 2016 #88

As I recall, the only help this OP has accepted is that which is deposited in that gofundme account. ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #97

Exactly. cwydro May 2016 #126

no, it is NOT a lie TorchTheWitch May 2016 #176

I have the word of a respected member Codeine May 2016 #181

lolz obamanut2012 May 2016 #193

You had nothing. Which is why no one from any agency you contacted believed you. ntt msanthrope May 2016 #263

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #55

I see refusing help, insisting on keeping the dog has led to all the financial stability you hoped AtheistCrusader Apr 2016 #34

How many responses will be hidden for not believing this OP? nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #41

By this time, there better be none. People can start posting links to the previous grift. Hekate May 2016 #125

I can't figure out this online donation business .. Do I need some sort of account ?? 30Draw May 2016 #42

Yes, if you're a scammer or someone who actually needs help, you'll need a way... ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #43

It's just so heartbreaking reading about a fellow DUer suffering :( 30Draw May 2016 #44

True suffering is always heartbreaking, DUer or not. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #74

absolutely times 10,000 n/t zazen May 2016 #85

As I recall the husband of the poster took the dog in, LisaL May 2016 #87

The accusations of theft that the OP made against the man who tried to do her a favor pnwmom May 2016 #148

The dog was going to be fostered by an Akita rescue obamanut2012 May 2016 #158

Right -- I'd forgotten that detail. Thanks. pnwmom May 2016 #159

No worries -- obamanut2012 May 2016 #194

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #179

Yoshi is fiercely loyal to their master ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #284

As an experienced Akita owner - Mother Of Four May 2016 #295

Thank you for that ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #296

This DUer put another DUer thru a ton of hell ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #46

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #60

There's a point where you are helping someone in need or enabling toxic behavior. KittyWampus May 2016 #83

The OP is a grifter. Codeine May 2016 #90

Yes, it is, but read through the posts here and find the ones from 2015. AngryOldDem May 2016 #115

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #56

The one and only time I was needing a tooth to come out and was dead broke... phleshdef May 2016 #48

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #61

and the results are in! yuiyoshida May 2016 #69

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #70

It would appear 5 out of 7 jurors remember the last thread. AtheistCrusader May 2016 #98

Silly alerter said "pure harrasment" from rjsquirrel, as if a grifter deserves anything less. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #99

Yep. TTW not only wasted the help offered, but she made it less likely AtheistCrusader May 2016 #101

I'm just sorry that several well-intentioned people made good efforts to help... AngryOldDem May 2016 #112

I am, too obamanut2012 May 2016 #142

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #109

I can't stand seeing good people get scammed. AngryOldDem May 2016 #113

That's exactly it. Even at ten bucks. For some people, that donation of 10$ was their AtheistCrusader May 2016 #129

Jury voted 5-2 to leave your post alone. trof May 2016 #71

Bookmarked to see where this leads, I remember the last time. Paper Roses May 2016 #72

I'm also bookmarking to add to last year's mess. She'll be back. Hekate May 2016 #225

After the way you treated another DUer that tried to help you? MissB May 2016 #73

If you've had a root canal in that tooth Sekhmets Daughter May 2016 #75

Lol! Good catch! cwydro May 2016 #76

Actually, I looked that up yesterday to check, and it's possible. Demit May 2016 #77

Right. For example, if a bit of the root is accidentally left it can cause problems later. pnwmom May 2016 #149

You can still have pain around the tooth..happened to me nadine_mn May 2016 #78

Not that I'm supporting the OP, but yes there is. SusanCalvin May 2016 #79

If the canal collapses, like it did in my case you can most certainly feel pain. Rex May 2016 #118

Sorry, but not correct. hamsterjill May 2016 #199

Just donated. Xox elehhhhna May 2016 #80

lolz obamanut2012 May 2016 #105

I am not understanding the part about a temp agency refusing to hire because of tooth pain nadine_mn May 2016 #82

It is hard to understand because it did not happen. Drahthaardogs May 2016 #95

I don't buy the part about the dental school refusing to do a difficult extraction. pnwmom May 2016 #150

An ER is only going to do emergency extractions if they actually SheilaT May 2016 #257

shouldn't this be vetted by admins before posting? it hurts people with genuine causes zazen May 2016 #84

I don't follow. LisaL May 2016 #86

It's being vetted in this thread. pintobean May 2016 #96

Is there an organization in your area that can provide free or low-cost dental work? meow2u3 May 2016 #89

Why would she be too rich to qualify for Medicaid? As far as I can tell she has no assets. LisaL May 2016 #91

Good point meow2u3 May 2016 #92

LeftyMom posted several options up thread before TTW 'lost her wifi' AtheistCrusader May 2016 #100

this obamanut2012 May 2016 #107

A big, honking, red-light-flashing clue. n/t trotsky May 2016 #245

I didn't know clues "honked" and "flashed" CreekDog May 2016 #267

Hello TorchTheWitch CountAllVotes May 2016 #93

perhaps if you post the name of the dentist who RX the antibiotics & will treat the tooth, someone Sunlei May 2016 #103

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #106

I know, right? cwydro May 2016 #134

See now I was just thinking this. Mother Of Four May 2016 #164

About $10 at your local hardware store. Kang Colby May 2016 #111

What a cruel suggestion. nt stage left May 2016 #151

This poster is a well noted scammer. n/t Kang Colby May 2016 #175

That's much too brutal. Here's a photo of an instrument similar to the one my dad used . . . Petrushka May 2016 #229

Provide me your Dentist phone number-contact info--- and I will call him or her.... trumad May 2016 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #121

Tick Tock trumad May 2016 #145

I would guess that your sincerity is in question pintobean May 2016 #152

Problems in your story 2naSalit May 2016 #117

She was living in a Philadelphia close suburb last time. Demit May 2016 #133

Well 2naSalit May 2016 #135

It was near Havertown, if I remember correctly obamanut2012 May 2016 #143

the last person I knew who did this was an ADDICT zazen May 2016 #165

Why keep calling for Admin to stop this? Sissyk May 2016 #173

because there is no post on this thread on which to alert, and people are being scammed zazen May 2016 #177

You have a choice ya know.. Texasgal May 2016 #180

I don't think DUers are that shallow. Sissyk May 2016 #183

I know all about tooth pain, as bad as kidney stones. Rex May 2016 #119

... ScreamingMeemie May 2016 #130

I just checked out all three of these PasadenaTrudy May 2016 #131

PM me. ScreamingMeemie May 2016 #132

Fellow DUers who are concerned: here are links to the last "emergency" Hekate May 2016 #136

Good on ya for posting these. cwydro May 2016 #137

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #139

K&R Jeffersons Ghost May 2016 #138

You're lying when you say that dental schools won't do it -- I am an RN in Philadelphia Heddi May 2016 #144

Thanks for posting this. cwydro May 2016 #146

This is a grifter POS that should have been banned from DU long ago. alphafemale May 2016 #324

May I suggest that everyone do a site search: Paper Roses May 2016 #147

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #153

I wish the admins would just not allow posts like these. Period. AngryOldDem May 2016 #160

You recall correctly... OneGrassRoot May 2016 #166

I agree. hamsterjill May 2016 #247

In PA, Medicaid covers extractions. Here are more PA options for low-income people: pnwmom May 2016 #154

Post removed Post removed May 2016 #156

And there is that... nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #157

Well, damn! I must have missed something in one of the previous episodes of this drama! Siwsan May 2016 #161

Yep, you missed a classic thread. noamnety May 2016 #168

I found a $10 in my spring jacket pocket, this year, and did a WHOO HOO dance Siwsan May 2016 #171

Post 21 in your link is very interesting. unapatriciated May 2016 #190

You would be a good detective. 3catwoman3 May 2016 #222

Although Post #21 was difficult to find (macular degeneration), locating it was worth the trouble. Petrushka May 2016 #230

Good for you for following up with some of the links to TTW's escapades Hekate May 2016 #259

I guess that means she's down to her last roll of ten dollar bills. Scurrilous May 2016 #202

Soon as I saw the "down to my last $20 and roll of toilet paper," I knew there would be trouble. betsuni May 2016 #210

Shame on me for laughing! Petrushka May 2016 #231

That was a low statement. nt Mojorabbit May 2016 #162

Tell it to TTW, she's the one who said it. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #163

She said it in a thread here once, boasting about how much $ she made stripping. Demit May 2016 #167

and just to be clear noamnety May 2016 #169

I don't recall that what she was sneering at was a donation... Demit May 2016 #185

Yes, it was something TTW stated about her past. MoonRiver May 2016 #170

The post deserved to be hidden. Texasgal May 2016 #174

I don't agree that it was slut-shaming. Demit May 2016 #186

A jury did. Texasgal May 2016 #188

The jury results don't say anything about stripping=sluttish. Demit May 2016 #189

How do you know Texasgal May 2016 #192

We both of us only see the number results. Not what they said. Demit May 2016 #198

TEN years ago! Texasgal May 2016 #200

It seems to be the only reason *you* can think of, that's for sure. Demit May 2016 #206

The jury agreed. Texasgal May 2016 #207

The following question might be asking you to compare apples to oranges; but . . . Petrushka May 2016 #232

Jury results Omaha Steve May 2016 #204

Exactly!!! nt Mojorabbit May 2016 #195

it wasn'y slut shaming at all obamanut2012 May 2016 #196

From a post that was made over ten years ago? Texasgal May 2016 #197

That TTW is not exactly a good investment charity-wise. AtheistCrusader May 2016 #208

Yes it was. Texasgal May 2016 #209

Go ahead. AtheistCrusader May 2016 #211

Ugh. Texasgal May 2016 #213

That was a SINGLE data point. One. AtheistCrusader May 2016 #215

Hello! Texasgal May 2016 #217

We make such a big deal out of the money point AtheistCrusader May 2016 #220

I remember in one thread she put down social workers and city workers too. cwydro May 2016 #236

Yep, that's it exactly. noamnety May 2016 #242

This is the thing, yes. Unlike millions of Americans, she's obviously literate. closeupready May 2016 #248

Not everything is slut-shaming. Sometimes it's just an accurate observation/direct quote. Hekate May 2016 #226

So, are all strippers "sluts", or just some of them? nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #251

Yes it is. Shame on the poster. 840high May 2016 #172

Damn.... A HERETIC I AM May 2016 #201

"1000+ Havertown, Pennsylvania jobs found on Monster" SMC22307 May 2016 #205

Do you live lancer78 May 2016 #218

What! Yoshi needs a tooth transplant? gwheezie May 2016 #227

TTW! How I've missed you! SheilaT May 2016 #228

Here's another post where she mentions her "dentures" (plural) and talks about "them" (plural) ---> Petrushka May 2016 #233

OMG I forgot about that -- great find obamanut2012 May 2016 #238

Someone upthread gave a link & said to check Post #21 . . . and . . . Petrushka May 2016 #239

I think that's a common way to refer to them, even if you only have uppers or lowers. Vinca May 2016 #240

I thought that might be the case, at first. But, then I read . . . Petrushka May 2016 #241

DAMN. trotsky May 2016 #249

It shows she tries to scam using something she knows a little about so it sounds legit ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #292

Or maybe she thinks there's an even greater turnover SheilaT May 2016 #293

You have to admit it takes chutzpah ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #294

Without knowing TTW's exact circumstances, and without SheilaT May 2016 #299

I, for one, would like you to post them. betsuni May 2016 #302

I've sent you a PM with all the threads. SheilaT May 2016 #306

I finally posted the links I have bookmarked, but I know there's more out there Hekate May 2016 #307

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #316

I remember that, people were really mad at you and you were right all along. betsuni May 2016 #300

Would $10,000 cover it? bvf May 2016 #235

colloidal silver might help stop the infection J_J_ May 2016 #250

It also might turn you blue. trotsky May 2016 #252

Sorry. Just too many blatant holes in this person's story(ies). Frank Cannon May 2016 #253

Maybe DU isn't the only site she's asking for money from. Demit May 2016 #254

I've done a bit of sleuthing on this but then I lost all my give a fuck. She probably... ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #255

Yeah, I'm just interested in the way she spins her stories. Demit May 2016 #258

There's at least one place where she uses the same name BDize May 2016 #261

Fascinating info. Welcome to DU at this interesting time. Hekate May 2016 #268

Also this: dgibby May 2016 #272

Looks like the dog is in exactly the same place as in the older videos. betsuni May 2016 #278

This may have been posted before dgibby May 2016 #301

It's just that the last one was posted on 2015/12/25, long after she moved. betsuni May 2016 #311

Is he living outside in that carrier?! obamanut2012 May 2016 #282

I don't know. dgibby May 2016 #303

How long ago was it that she was supposed to have moved? nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #288

There was a post saying she left her old place last summer. nt betsuni May 2016 #298

Thanks, betsuni. dgibby May 2016 #305

I'm not sure. n/t dgibby May 2016 #304

I've been mostly a lurker for a couple of years BDize May 2016 #320

You often think of bobbolink?! Jeez, so do I. She's another one who caused great division at DU... Hekate May 2016 #260

Anyone who wants to give money should speak to me first about my experience with her. nt msanthrope May 2016 #264

My thought for anyone who's wanting to help out is to look around in their own lives pnwmom May 2016 #312

This is the best advice. Demit May 2016 #322

I actually wish you would Dorian Gray May 2016 #314

Several of us have posted links in this thread. The saga is documented in them. Short version: Hekate May 2016 #329

I remember the WHOLE story Dorian Gray May 2016 #330

When I posted publicly, I was hidden. nt msanthrope May 2016 #333

Ah, that makes sense Dorian Gray May 2016 #335

I tried to give Bobblink a laptop (not sure if I'm the only one) and it ended badly. Stardust May 2016 #325

People were not mean to her ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #289

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #318

How much money has your PayPal donation link raised since you began fundraising with it a while back CreekDog May 2016 #265

A tooth extraction here in the San Francisco Bay Area is $80 cash, no Medicaid or Medical REP May 2016 #269

If you live near Philly I'll do it for free... PCIntern May 2016 #270

she is in a philly suburb obamanut2012 May 2016 #271

That is really, really nice of you PC! Marrah_G May 2016 #273

I'll keep a good thought for you... Hekate May 2016 #274

Could she sue him if frogmarch May 2016 #275

of course obamanut2012 May 2016 #276

Upthread there's a link to a post by TTW claiming she has dentures and no more dental pain.Dentures. Hekate May 2016 #277

Yep. AngryOldDem May 2016 #280

yup obamanut2012 May 2016 #283

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #319

I'm not saying don't do it. But you might want to speak to me....and my ex..... msanthrope May 2016 #279

I suspect that offer will be the end of this thread. pnwmom May 2016 #281

I agree, it will probably end here or BDize May 2016 #321

Thank you. nt msanthrope May 2016 #338

I've read back through all the threads - Mother Of Four May 2016 #297

Very generous offer PC, but don't do it. panader0 May 2016 #286

I agree. betsuni May 2016 #287

Agreed ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2016 #291

She won't contact you and she won't accept your generous offer of help despite being in Philly. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #290

Don't be silly gwheezie May 2016 #308

Well, that would need to be a separate thread... ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #309

This is a real solution Dorian Gray May 2016 #315

You're a saint, PC. Make sure there is a witness in the room. Vinca May 2016 #317

DLPA - an amino acid- helps releive pain Baobab May 2016 #310

Oh, you again n/t Godhumor May 2016 #323

I can't believe she just dropped this, although the info ohheckyeah May 2016 #327

She dropped in once to argue a post I made Codeine May 2016 #331

She didn't totally disappear after yelling at you Brother Buzz May 2016 #334

And hasn't returned BDize May 2016 #337

Good God. Again? nruthie May 2016 #328

Over 18,000 views. lpbk2713 May 2016 #332

Not this shit again alphafemale May 2016 #339

Post removed Post removed Dec 2020 #340