Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: The Pain You Feel is Capitalism Dying [View all]ronnie624
(5,764 posts)73. An interesting excerpt.
Money acts as a mutually agreed-upon intermediary between everyone in a society, representing the relative value of the claims of ownership of items that are offered for exchange. It is like a formalized, but anonymous, handshake as in the barter system. Because everyone accepts money as being a valuable thing to receive in return for giving up ownership of something real, you accept what is otherwise a worthless token, from some stranger youve never seen before, in exchange for something useful because you know that in the future you will be able to trade it in for some other real item of value that you want. You dont know exactly what you will want or when you will want it, but you accept money as a representation of the wealth that you could own. So at its core, money is simply a symbolic representation of ownership, a non-specific claim over real world goods, services, or rights that hasnt been exercised yet; the ownership is hypothetical.
[center]◇◇◇◇◇◇◇[/center]
So from the above it becomes clear that all of the claims of wealth that money serves as a proxy for basically just boil down to claims on human labour, and by extension all of the ecological production that went into supporting that labour, since that is where the vast majority of all this stuff and energy come from that enable these goods, services, and rights to be produced. So to state it once more: money is a claim on ecological production, and specifically on how that ecological production is turned into useful or enjoyable things or services for us, via our brains, bodies, and machinery.
[center]◇◇◇◇◇◇◇[/center]
So from the above it becomes clear that all of the claims of wealth that money serves as a proxy for basically just boil down to claims on human labour, and by extension all of the ecological production that went into supporting that labour, since that is where the vast majority of all this stuff and energy come from that enable these goods, services, and rights to be produced. So to state it once more: money is a claim on ecological production, and specifically on how that ecological production is turned into useful or enjoyable things or services for us, via our brains, bodies, and machinery.
https://markbc.net/doomer-economic-commentary/thermodynamics-for-economists/
The concept of wealth implies growth in value beyond that which exists in the physical universe in the form of usable energy or goods and services. Since value is directly related to a given quantity of resources and energy, and creating matter and energy is at odds with the Laws of Thermodynamics, it logically follows that creating wealth is impossible.
It's helpful to keep in mind, that we never create. All we are ever doing through our economic activity, is converting and dispersing energy, and in the process, we will always sustain a net loss.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
75 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
so you believe that 9 years of ZIRP policy by the Federal Reserve is a sign of good economic health?
virtualobserver
May 2016
#3
The end game is when robot workers start selling hamburgers to robot customers.
Xipe Totec
May 2016
#20
The Establishment Agenda Is Always The Same - Enslave The 99% - Enrich The 1%
cantbeserious
May 2016
#2
I guess that might be dependent on the definition of "value". What is your source? nm
rhett o rick
May 2016
#6
If I am not mistaken, the notion of value being produced by labor is present from Locke to Marx.
beastie boy
May 2016
#17
Wow, that's some essay. I have skimmed it and intend to read more thoroughly.
rhett o rick
May 2016
#53
A lot of people have difficulty understanding the nature and fluidity of energy
ronnie624
May 2016
#55
I have studied thermodynamics and understand enery somewhat. I like the application
rhett o rick
May 2016
#56
Growth can occur only if there is energy entering the system from an outside source.
ronnie624
May 2016
#57
I think economic growth comes from creating something that is of value to someone.
rhett o rick
May 2016
#58
History. The experience in Mexico and other countries with staggering inequality
Califonz
May 2016
#8
its a different world now. If we come down, and we will crash huge, the world will follow.
litlbilly
May 2016
#11
capitalism has raise the living standard of more people in the history of he world...
AlbertCat
May 2016
#67
Our economy depends on selling overpriced fraudulent financial products to each other in a game
whereisjustice
May 2016
#19
What Fuller called "lawyer capitalism" has outlived its purpose and is long dead.
beastie boy
May 2016
#24
You can call it fusion capitalism, but it's just capitalism. This is what it does.
Hydra
May 2016
#25
of course it's just capitalism. The label just indicates a new twist to it.
beastie boy
May 2016
#32
No. It is the capitalists trying to make -us- die. If it was them dying they would be feeling the
jtuck004
May 2016
#28