General Discussion

hill2016

(1,772 posts)

270. well

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:45 PM

Jun 2016

#1. is irrelevant. No matter how or why the vote was called, it has taken place and a majority of voters have spoken.

#2. The results was caused by people who wanted out from the EU compact. Open trades requires free borders. People collectively weighted the pros and cons and decided one way.

#3. Are you absolutely sure that nobody on the Left could possibly be upset at the free borders of the EU resulting in immigration to the UK?

#4. Agree but so what? Everybody gets one vote. Unless you believe some votes should count more than others?

#5. I believe in the right of a people to self-determination. I think that's the most progressive ideal above all else?

#6. No arguments but refer to #1 and #5.
#7. No arguments but refer to #1 and #5.
#8. Refer to #5. Is it not possible to support the same outcome for different reasons? Didn't both FDR and Stalin team up to beat Germany?
#9. Didn't Remain lie as well about getting more concessions from the EU? The EU that right now is discussing how to kick the UK out as soon as possible? Nobody's hands are perfectly clean.

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OH MY GOD let's get several things straight about Brexit [View all] auntpurl Jun 2016 OP

"Thatcherism" was UK's Reaganomics FreakinDJ Jun 2016 #1

Yes - they were best pals and influenced each other a lot LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #252

A sovereign nation may be better able to defeat Reaganism/Thatcherism nt The Far Left Jun 2016 #279

+1, Trump and Putin supported Brexit ... Obama was against it, bout all I need to know to about it.. uponit7771 Jun 2016 #2

Where is the quote Putin weighed in on this at all? davidn3600 Jun 2016 #8

link inside uponit7771 Jun 2016 #15

That's his reaction to it davidn3600 Jun 2016 #44

That was his position from the start, not just his reaction uponit7771 Jun 2016 #49

boris the spider bora13 Jun 2016 #169

I can't disagree with Putin. 840high Jun 2016 #222

You are correct. In fact he implied recently that it was not a good thing newthinking Jun 2016 #226

That isn't what your article says. ronnie624 Jun 2016 #66

Red Herring, my point is he supported it no matter how much he weighed in on it... I think I made uponit7771 Jun 2016 #68

What is clear, is that your assertion is false. n/t ronnie624 Jun 2016 #71

Geez, what is your issue with Putin? I've only read about a gazillion articles regarding Putin's Native Jun 2016 #93

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2016 #124

It comes from the same place that the "Putin said he wants the USSR back" came from newthinking Jun 2016 #228

This is false on its face, His comment wasn't made BECAUSE of the leave vote his thinking was... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #106

Ideally, ronnie624 Jun 2016 #157

Even 3 days ago he was keeping his opinion to himself. OnlinePoker Jun 2016 #114

Yeap, his opinion was he supported it IE his "weak nation" phrase uponit7771 Jun 2016 #119

Obama is for the TPP, Trump is against it. end of line n/t PatrynXX Jun 2016 #110

That's even more of a reason to take a second look at the TPP too, I'm not anti trade I'm anti uponit7771 Jun 2016 #116

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #202

Since TPP written by corportations, I'm sure just fine. George Eliot Jun 2016 #267

So its 100% written by corps or were they allowed to weigh in? I'm not anti corporation either, ... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #268

Perhaps I'm wrong but these are my sources. George Eliot Jun 2016 #281

I'd like hard proof that it was 100% written by corps not conjecture, again... I'm not anti .... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #282

It's a sad commentary on our times, isn't it? forest444 Jun 2016 #129

+1 TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #172

Right GulfCoast66 Jun 2016 #198

I've seen nothing to suggest that Merkel was trying to get other nations to emulate Germany's labor w4rma Jun 2016 #223

So you actually didn't read about this at all. runaway hero Jun 2016 #237

Thank you. An excellent summary. Koinos Jun 2016 #3

As an American anoNY42 Jun 2016 #4

But that's two different issues ... Whiskeytide Jun 2016 #167

I am a Californian The Green Manalishi Jun 2016 #265

Nicely stated! No American progressive or any other educated human should support Brexit. LonePirate Jun 2016 #5

Says you RelativelyJones Jun 2016 #33

There is very little that is progressive BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #72

It would seem ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #89

Too true. BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #91

+1, OP worthy uponit7771 Jun 2016 #120

Yup wryter2000 Jun 2016 #180

Really? RelativelyJones Jun 2016 #131

LOL - buh-bye! eom BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #142

Can you please elaborate on what you mean by "McKinseyeqse (sic)"? n/t xocet Jun 2016 #168

Bob & Doug? bigbrother05 Jun 2016 #192

Start with the trade unions' position on how the EU gives workers protection: muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #190

Then you don't know or understand Britain PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #275

Imposing views is all well and fine. Igel Jun 2016 #65

Good point except English haven't had an indigenous population since the 300's. haele Jun 2016 #112

But they have formed a unique cukture elljay Jun 2016 #161

Again, the problem is that there is not really an "English Culture" any more than the "US" culture. haele Jun 2016 #210

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #244

Actually, I do know what I'm talking about. I saw the breakdown of the Brexit vote. haele Jun 2016 #246

Thank you for your time in helping us to libdem4life Jun 2016 #261

Well, the people SHOULD have a right to vote on it, whether we like the outcome or not 7962 Jun 2016 #165

For folks disillusioned with Global Capitalism's un-democratic domination, Brexit is hitting back nikto Jun 2016 #262

More related material. proverbialwisdom Jun 2016 #271

Thanks! nikto Jun 2016 #272

This is worth learning about. I appreciate your hefty compilation of material, thank you! (nt) proverbialwisdom Jun 2016 #273

Excellent summary! Kelvin Mace Jun 2016 #6

LOL!! truebrit71 Jun 2016 #209

Sing it, sister! Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #7

that's the sad part NewJeffCT Jun 2016 #37

Yup. And immigrants. n/t Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #40

If it would only be 52% that would speak highly of them as humans The Green Manalishi Jun 2016 #280

Great post auntpurl! JustAnotherGen Jun 2016 #9

I can't believe some of what I'm reading here. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2016 #10

A big, fat K&R! CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2016 #11

PM Cameron fucked a pig. Really? Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #12

I never called anyone ignorant, and I never said they were supporting Trump. auntpurl Jun 2016 #31

Perhaps you should re-read your post! Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #88

He is correct for all I have seen and read. Jim Beard Jun 2016 #269

Trump supports Brexit. Those who support Brexit side with Trump Logic 101! leftofcool Jun 2016 #83

No..that is an informal fallacy. Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #90

Siding with Trump =/= Trump supporter. Dr Hobbitstein Jun 2016 #218

Thank you for this op La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #13

Thank you. DUers cheering this crap on are perplexing,to sufrommich Jun 2016 #14

I'm trying to think of the number of fucks Americans really care about this snooper2 Jun 2016 #16

Sure, sure. Dow's down by 500, I'm sure it'll be fine. auntpurl Jun 2016 #22

As of now it's down 366. nt cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #41

And was up substantially yesterday on the assumption that Remain would triumph FBaggins Jun 2016 #69

One would think the British Isles are being towed to the middle of The Pond and readied for sinking. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #174

Enough people here seemingly care enough about it... Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #30

Two Words, snoooper2: Unintended Consequences Native Jun 2016 #98

Yep. ExPat daughter and British husband have cancelled plans vanlassie Jun 2016 #173

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #17

Great points! texstad79 Jun 2016 #18

72.2% voter turnout. That's very high. No UK General Election has had such high turnout since Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #42

Nice analysis. You're right, of course. No one is better off because of Brexit. PatrickforO Jun 2016 #19

But many perceive that they will be better off. Igel Jun 2016 #76

+1. Thanks for stating what should be obvious. KPN Jun 2016 #148

I so agree with that. TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #176

Thank you for the clarification. nt fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #20

Did you know the Labour party was Eurosceptic party kcjohn1 Jun 2016 #21

Agreed but there is Identity to consider flamingdem Jun 2016 #23

Just like here wryter2000 Jun 2016 #24

It's not just about well informed Craig234 Jun 2016 #39

The differences between being misinformed and ignorant sometimes seem subtle but nolabels Jun 2016 #147

true or maybe they really are willing treestar Jun 2016 #150

Excellent summary of key aspects of Brexit -- and future is grim ... some speculation cloudythescribbler Jun 2016 #25

Re, your #3, it would be awesome if we had an opposition party to speak of. auntpurl Jun 2016 #47

Well then, why don't you have an effective Labour Party? KPN Jun 2016 #175

Probably exactly because of the kinds of arguments you're making in your post. auntpurl Jun 2016 #178

I'm not sure I see how the left is eating its own ... KPN Jun 2016 #186

In the short term NewJeffCT Jun 2016 #50

Alas, it's hard to picture voters who are likely to vote for Trump paying SheilaT Jun 2016 #73

NeoLiberalism is promising human unity by screwing the workers everywhere equally. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2016 #26

There are more workers then screwers but workers will never be strong enough fragmented uponit7771 Jun 2016 #51

Um yeah....fragmented working class is not a good thing Armstead Jun 2016 #77

K&R! Because I feel you auntpurl, loud and clear. apnu Jun 2016 #27

Amen frazzled Jun 2016 #28

I agree with every word you've posted. The number of sufrommich Jun 2016 #35

+1, some folk aren't as progressive as they think they are... humility is a good thing +1 uponit7771 Jun 2016 #52

As I wrote earlier ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #99

SO true... that's about what surrounds the nihilist... themselves uponit7771 Jun 2016 #101

Great post. nt auntpurl Jun 2016 #140

+1 Dr Hobbitstein Jun 2016 #216

So agree with all you said. I am tired of the angry populism too. AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #278

Thank you for your explanation lovemydog Jun 2016 #29

Trump laid a big fat turd by going to Scotland and crowing about the results. yellowcanine Jun 2016 #32

Classic example of an ignoramus. SheilaT Jun 2016 #75

Amazing. auntpurl Jun 2016 #138

Just to add re point #1 TubbersUK Jun 2016 #34

A spat between two Eton schoolboys has just cost the UK 10% of its value overnight nt auntpurl Jun 2016 #57

Absolutely n/t TubbersUK Jun 2016 #62

could be worse. A bunch of squabbling cousins caused World War I philosslayer Jun 2016 #255

Great post at clarifying the issues. Craig234 Jun 2016 #36

This is an outstanding post! Thank you very much! NurseJackie Jun 2016 #38

wow that graphic treestar Jun 2016 #43

Excellent summary! Mandos the Judge Jun 2016 #45

Yes TubbersUK Jun 2016 #53

Cornwall voted to Leave and now wants to make sure their EU subsidies will be provided auntpurl Jun 2016 #55

That's right up there with SheilaT Jun 2016 #78

That's hilarious. Meldread Jun 2016 #81

EU should pull these first, unfortinaly these pulls wont happen for another two years uponit7771 Jun 2016 #107

Oh brother... calimary Jun 2016 #155

Yeah, no, I'm sure it's fine. auntpurl Jun 2016 #158

Let them eat Sovereignty! The_Editor Jun 2016 #183

Complete and utter morons. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #220

As you say, it is particularly sad when BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #80

Reccing with the force of a thousand atom smashers. forjusticethunders Jun 2016 #46

Comprehensive, point by point exposition of this disastrous referendum result. Surya Gayatri Jun 2016 #48

You are absolutely right on OBrien Jun 2016 #54

Thank you whatthehey Jun 2016 #56

Great post. auntpurl Jun 2016 #145

Thank you. DetlefK Jun 2016 #58

If there's anything humans are good at, it's cutting off their nose to spite their face. AtheistCrusader Jun 2016 #59

Thank you! betsuni Jun 2016 #60

Beautifully done! It's sad, of course, but you've really explained this perfectly Bucky Jun 2016 #61

K&R Solly Mack Jun 2016 #63

Good OP. Thanks. yardwork Jun 2016 #64

this was my basic impression-- thanks for writing it up nicely! Fast Walker 52 Jun 2016 #67

Thank you, auntpurl! BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #70

But he EU began as a trading union TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #121

For real information about the EU, try its own BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #137

I think there's a good chance that TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #149

We do concur on that BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #153

Yes. TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #170

Excellent post! herding cats Jun 2016 #74

Thanks. I am tried of seeing BREXIT hailed as a win for progressives. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #79

I know TubbersUK Jun 2016 #86

K & R n/t TubbersUK Jun 2016 #82

Thank you for this information. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2016 #84

Trump is happy about the vote. That's all I need to know. n/t TonyPDX Jun 2016 #85

He's happy because he thinks the weaker pound means The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2016 #123

+100000000 I am horrified at the pro-Brexit crowd here. Meldread Jun 2016 #87

So glad you decided not to take a break from DU after all, auntpurl - people need to be educated. Native Jun 2016 #92

There's always spin in the aftermath of an unexpected vote result - FBaggins Jun 2016 #94

Great post! Cali_Democrat Jun 2016 #95

outstanding post - I may be over-generalizing here but NoMoreRepugs Jun 2016 #96

THE best explanation of it all that I've seen yet -- thank you! Hope you don't mind if I ancianita Jun 2016 #97

Quote away. auntpurl Jun 2016 #102

Preach it sister! stevenleser Jun 2016 #100

Good job-- opposition was entirely emotional... TreasonousBastard Jun 2016 #103

I have a question: The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2016 #104

Yes, it is possible. auntpurl Jun 2016 #113

Thanks! It's good to know there might be a way out. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2016 #122

Maybe. auntpurl Jun 2016 #128

It's vanishingly unlikely to happen, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #133

Thank you for that clarification. auntpurl Jun 2016 #151

I think I was among the hordes that hit Google HARD in the last 48 hours! Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #154

Thank you for this thread.(eom) CanSocDem Jun 2016 #136

Damned if you do, dawned if you don't... ymetca Jun 2016 #195

simply, Parliament. Ironing Man Jun 2016 #146

The fringe or far left rarely attacks the right, instead they attack the left. nt BootinUp Jun 2016 #105

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2016 #109

That's where their bread is buttered. joshcryer Jun 2016 #230

If I'm Pro Environment now I'm right wing?? PatrynXX Jun 2016 #108

The average Leave voter has literally never heard of the TPP. auntpurl Jun 2016 #118

I believe you. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2016 #126

I don't think anyone thinks exit will be good for the environment muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #197

Pro-environment voters supported Remaining in EU by a huge margin. yardwork Jun 2016 #242

Kick! JohnnyRingo Jun 2016 #111

There is a certain DU contingent for whom charges of "neoliberalism" are the knee-jerk response... Nitram Jun 2016 #115

the OP author admits they don't know what neoliberalism means in this context nashville_brook Jun 2016 #260

Thank you for this! liberalmuse Jun 2016 #117

I just have to say ITER Energy ---------------what happens to Britain in this partership turbinetree Jun 2016 #125

Conservatives fuck up the economy and safety net with austerity and neoliberal market policies killbotfactory Jun 2016 #127

Yes, it's a real head scratcher. auntpurl Jun 2016 #130

Do you have anything in place that will nullify this since the framers of this Loki Jun 2016 #135

See the subthread above with the Credit Suisse infographic auntpurl Jun 2016 #152

Its what the fuck they do Cosmocat Jun 2016 #194

K&R ismnotwasm Jun 2016 #132

Most awesome rant ever! radical noodle Jun 2016 #134

Well said underpants Jun 2016 #139

K&R BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #141

Outstanding summary. This needs to be pushed in the mass media. DrBulldog Jun 2016 #143

Don't bring facts and math into this! nt msanthrope Jun 2016 #144

10. The people feel disconnected from wealth and knowledge. They want something to blame. Festivito Jun 2016 #156

We'll see what will come soon. auntpurl Jun 2016 #159

Wasn't the Brexit vote that exactly? KPN Jun 2016 #191

Yes. My point. auntpurl Jun 2016 #193

Ah, yes, my bad. KPN Jun 2016 #200

We don't, but should. eom Festivito Jun 2016 #207

Yup. We here in the USA are heading down the same path. KPN Jun 2016 #177

Exactly. eom Festivito Jun 2016 #208

Thanks for this. Great graphic, too - really makes it clear. nt cyberswede Jun 2016 #160

Excellent post, excellent analysis, excellent information. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #162

thank you for that excellent summary. will be handy when I have to explain this to niyad Jun 2016 #163

OUTSTANDING! NastyRiffraff Jun 2016 #164

Thank you for this post, auntpurl. brer cat Jun 2016 #166

Thank you Rupert Murdoch, you have almost completely Jim Beard Jun 2016 #171

K & R - because this thread deserves max visibility n/t TubbersUK Jun 2016 #179

We took all of our money out of the stock market. liberalnarb Jun 2016 #181

You are NOT in tune with my reality. fasttense Jun 2016 #182

Thank you! KPN Jun 2016 #189

"But not all of us disagree with the fascists!" joshcryer Jun 2016 #231

After watching the world markets drop like a rock I finally had a stiff drink and went to bed Hekate Jun 2016 #184

thank you RazBerryBeret Jun 2016 #185

Great post! dsharp88 Jun 2016 #187

Big kick! mcar Jun 2016 #188

Sounds to me like just more neoliberal thinking. The stuff that has gotten us KPN Jun 2016 #196

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #199

Disagree with point three - at least some socialist thinkers on the left favored leaving hueymahl Jun 2016 #201

AUNTPURL FOR PM !!!!! GusBob Jun 2016 #203

I'm not even allowed to vote. auntpurl Jun 2016 #204

Very nice OP lillypaddle Jun 2016 #205

Absolutely spot on. truebrit71 Jun 2016 #206

You can't disappear "neoliberalism" under the label "conservative". arendt Jun 2016 #211

...ok. auntpurl Jun 2016 #212

Meaning what? Agree? Don't give a shit? What? n/t arendt Jun 2016 #213

Some can't accept the word "liberal" being associated with anything bad. They just Skeeter Barnes Jun 2016 #227

This fight was pretty much Tory-on-Tory. Corbyn was "remain". But it really was about neoliberalism. arendt Jun 2016 #221

Calling everything neoliberalism is scare mongering. joshcryer Jun 2016 #234

Neoliberal skellingtons under your bed! NuclearDem Jun 2016 #238

You must be joking. This is an ignorant, juvenille comment. n/t arendt Jun 2016 #239

mighty pretty words auntpurl saidsimplesimon Jun 2016 #214

"May you live in interesting times" - Chinese curse auntpurl Jun 2016 #215

71% of "leave" voters hate the internet??? Odin2005 Jun 2016 #217

No. You have not read it clearly. You misunderstand the presentation. Read it again. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #283

Google reported that searches for "what is the EU" spiked AFTER the vote nadine_mn Jun 2016 #219

Neo-liberalism is right wing BlindTiresias Jun 2016 #224

Yes and the EU neoliberals.. sendero Jun 2016 #233

you left out: exploitation of cheap labor, and eradicate unions YOHABLO Jun 2016 #277

Ireland lakercub Jun 2016 #225

No, you are absolutely not reading too much into it. auntpurl Jun 2016 #229

A total disaster anigbrowl Jun 2016 #250

This has got to be so upsetting for you .... etherealtruth Jun 2016 #232

Posts like this make me fall in love in DU rocktivity Jun 2016 #235

Aunt Purl, thanks for the most informative post! Raster Jun 2016 #236

Great rant, but you really should learn what neo-liberalism is, since it is a major cause Rex Jun 2016 #240

I would trust Auntpurl's economic opinions far more than yours... anigbrowl Jun 2016 #249

So you didn't read her OP where she says she doesn't know what it is? Rex Jun 2016 #258

The referendum is non-binding. roamer65 Jun 2016 #241

If he ignored it, his party would throw him out, and elect a leader as PM who will exit the EU muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #245

I understand the parliamentary system. roamer65 Jun 2016 #251

Then he never would have risked the referendum in the first place muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #253

Agree Totally colsohlibgal Jun 2016 #243

Excellent OP! Spazito Jun 2016 #247

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #248

Good riddance to Morgan Stanley, I wish we could get rid of them swhisper1 Jun 2016 #254

Reports are the UK is going to be offered "associate member" status in the EU. roamer65 Jun 2016 #256

Could you point me towards the reports please? n/t TubbersUK Jun 2016 #276

Excellent post malaise Jun 2016 #257

Thanks for the break down nt MrScorpio Jun 2016 #259

The “Black Mirror” episode that imagined David Cameron’s dalliance with a pig Chico Man Jun 2016 #263

Excellent write up of the situation. Stand and Fight Jun 2016 #264

Media coups are becoming a norm around the world. Brazil the best example. L. Coyote Jun 2016 #266

well hill2016 Jun 2016 #270

Thanks for this thread PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #274