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haele

(15,373 posts)
30. Here's what I would say to the young man.
Thu Sep 29, 2016, 12:32 PM
Sep 2016

Son, before you head out into the world, let me tell you a few things about being an adult.

First: Everyone has the right and responsibility to own their sexuality. You are not ever, ever entitled to someone else's sexuality just because you feel horny and want to exercise your penis.
That being said, here's a few rules about responsible adult sex.

1. Anyone who wants you to get too drunk to be aware of what you're doing is a tool that either wants to take advantage of you, or is a loser who wants to surround himself/herself with equally loser friends. While it's okay to get a bit tipsy around other people, never get so drunk or stoned you can't be in control of yourself - that's just stupid, letting the alcohol or drug take control of your life.

2. Only the initial and enthusiastic "Yes" is consent to have sex. People might be too confused or conflicted to say "no" when they don't want sex. Lack of a qualified yes or no, or having to be badgered or "convinced" to have sex is not consent. And just because you're a "nice guy" or you paid for dinner or drinks doesn't mean you deserve sex from a woman you may want to have sex with - you have to be upfront with the fact you want to have sex with her and are looking for that enthusiastic yes as consent. If you're stuck in the friend zone, don't try to change it unless or until the other party is willing to go the next step.

If someone is not coherent, in an altered or overly emotional state, or is drunk, there is no consent; lack of consent when having sex can always be considered rape.

3. Likewise, sexual coercion or sex being used to control someone is rape, no matter what the gender. Since you are a man, you will tend to have the greater body strength and appearance that can be coercive to someone who is smaller and perhaps less certain of what they really want. If you have to keep asking until she (or he) says yes, or if you have to trick her, or if you have to get them inebriated before they say yes, then it's rape.
A warning - there are a very few sociopathic women who will choose and try to coerce men they want to gain control over to have sex to get that control - so if you don't let your little head take over your thinking, and remain sober enough to recognize when someone is trying to convince you to have sex, you won't become a victim of either a woman looking for a Mr. to rescue her, or of a woman who just wants someone to take responsibility for her shortcomings. Most women you meet aren't like that.

So whether you go out and party with your friends, or go out looking for casual sex, or go out looking for a relationship, remember that only a sober and enthusiastic "yes" is consent to have sex.
Anything else can and will be used against you eventually, either legally or to your social reputation.


Haele

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Incapacitated? Define it. Warpy Sep 2016 #1
You are making a couple incorrect assumptions here WestCoastLib Sep 2016 #38
Yes.... mrmpa Sep 2016 #2
NO IS NO Doreen Sep 2016 #3
That's not the issue. If neither one says YES, did either one positively consent? pnwmom Sep 2016 #128
This is a difficult topic that would probably be better served elsewhere than GD Hekate Sep 2016 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #19
First, let me say I liked the "Tea" stick figures. Second... Hekate Sep 2016 #42
If your son is so drunk that he does not know if he is having sex or not INdemo Sep 2016 #104
typically, alcohol is used as an EXCUSE by men when they rape Skittles Sep 2016 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #25
you should be ashamed obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #33
Completely and absolutely disagree with you. It's an EXCELLENT question. closeupready Sep 2016 #40
lolz obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #118
I do too Skittles Sep 2016 #94
thank you!! niyad Sep 2016 #50
the people who claim they don't get it Skittles Sep 2016 #97
yes, it certainly is. niyad Sep 2016 #120
You're not answering the OP's question. If neither one objects to sex, ,but BOTH partners are pnwmom Sep 2016 #129
If neither OBJECTS, then neither SAID NO. It's really that simple. KittyWampus Sep 2016 #160
But if a person is incapacitated, are they capable of giving consent? pnwmom Sep 2016 #161
If neither objects that is a non-factor. It is merely an abstraction and non of your business. KittyWampus Sep 2016 #162
If two guys are drunk (guy A and guy B) .... etherealtruth Sep 2016 #6
WHY DOES GUY A HAVE TO BE TEH ADULT?!11!1 obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #34
Eeee gad .... that's why my examples involved 2 men and crimes other than rape etherealtruth Sep 2016 #36
Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Sep 2016 #88
unfortunately, this conversation gets a lot of absolutism on people having sex after drinking Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #7
I think if either partner is incapacitated jamzrockz Sep 2016 #138
Seems you have your answer 6chars Sep 2016 #8
BULLSHIT! Women are always held accountable for their actions and are blamed for what they did Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2016 #53
exactly!!!!! niyad Sep 2016 #59
There are very specific statutes about this. yardwork Sep 2016 #9
I'm sorry to hear that you suffered a sexual assault Orrex Sep 2016 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #16
It's always ugly. Thank you for sharing. Orrex Sep 2016 #17
Teach our sons and men to be responsible...just as pressure is put on girls/women for the same. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2016 #11
My personal rule is if I think either of us is drunk mythology Sep 2016 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #15
Better question malaise Sep 2016 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #20
No - in these parts parents introduced us to beer and wine malaise Sep 2016 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #14
two people getting drunk and consensually screwing isn't rape geek tragedy Sep 2016 #18
You know it is not that simple jberryhill Sep 2016 #70
both should be treated equally, assuming there's no element of coersion etc. geek tragedy Sep 2016 #93
I think Nye Bevan nails it down thread jberryhill Sep 2016 #95
too drunk to consent but sober enough for a mens rea finding? nt geek tragedy Sep 2016 #106
I'd have to see a relevant sexual assault statute jberryhill Sep 2016 #113
You do need to remember false rape accusations are rare mythology Sep 2016 #24
Exactly. athena Sep 2016 #123
When both are drunk.... demgurl Sep 2016 #48
Your son is terrified of that happening? alcibiades_mystery Sep 2016 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #41
Oh, OK alcibiades_mystery Sep 2016 #44
Well, yeah. Adrahil Sep 2016 #23
Both parties have to be conscience enough to say yes WDIM Sep 2016 #26
conscious Skittles Sep 2016 #103
Conscience works, too. kwassa Sep 2016 #119
My take on it is Else You Are Mad Sep 2016 #27
Jesus Christ ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #28
.... obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #29
Holy Shit ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #32
yuppers obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #35
I would love the context salin Sep 2016 #108
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #45
Saying "no" is not required ... giving consent is required etherealtruth Sep 2016 #68
Your son is only 16? athena Sep 2016 #151
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #66
You mean if two people drink until they black out or are otherwise impaired? ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #89
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #99
That's because rape is taken slightly more seriously these days ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #107
Here's what I would say to the young man. haele Sep 2016 #30
This excellent, very cogent and on point. Thank you. Dream Girl Sep 2016 #60
Right. What do you say to the young woman? Can she have sex with a young man pnwmom Sep 2016 #140
Same thing. haele Sep 2016 #155
Come on now gollygee Sep 2016 #31
Not always. Two people could BOTH be drunk and not objecting to sex. Are they raping each other pnwmom Sep 2016 #131
It takes more than just two people not objecting gollygee Sep 2016 #165
My thoughts ArtD48 Sep 2016 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #47
It's not a different standard ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #56
So if a man commits rape while intoxicted ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #54
It reads like that :puke: etherealtruth Sep 2016 #71
It certainly could be. Women rape men, but here on DU, that's unpopular closeupready Sep 2016 #39
What a creative and unsupported allegation! LanternWaste Sep 2016 #43
we see this crap all the time here--and can pretty well predict how quickly it will show up. niyad Sep 2016 #49
Rape is rape ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #57
Rape is rape, yes, agree - members of both genders commit rape. closeupready Sep 2016 #61
Well sure ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #75
Not going to respond to you any further. closeupready Sep 2016 #77
Okey dokey ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #78
This subject causes emotions to run high tymorial Sep 2016 #62
Oh, my - so sorry to hear that. :( closeupready Sep 2016 #76
Thanks but I am okay tymorial Sep 2016 #137
"women are not children"--well, NEITHER ARE MEN!!!!!! you are teaching your son niyad Sep 2016 #46
Exactly ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #51
Yes. Incapacitated people cannot really consent to anything. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #52
as a matter of curiosity, why are you specifically concerned about college rape and not niyad Sep 2016 #55
I was wondering the same thing. WillowTree Sep 2016 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #63
the title of your thread was college rape. was asking why that, specifically, period. niyad Sep 2016 #64
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #72
I am truly sorry for what happened to you, and appreciate that you are trying to make niyad Sep 2016 #73
Suggestion for your son. WillowTree Sep 2016 #65
I'm 48 d_r Sep 2016 #67
In an effort to protect your son, you're using the same old rhetoric... cynatnite Sep 2016 #69
Borrowing a word from religion: AMEN!!!!!!! etherealtruth Sep 2016 #74
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #80
Yes. n/t TygrBright Sep 2016 #84
Yes. n/t cynatnite Sep 2016 #122
it would seem, they both rape each other. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #130
I once awoke in a woman's bedroom, missing my clothing and any recollection of the previous 6 hours. Moostache Sep 2016 #79
If two totally wasted people have consensual sex, there is no way one can call it "rape." rumdude Sep 2016 #82
Ask your son whether it would be rape if a drunk man had sex with him when he was incapacitated Heidi Sep 2016 #81
That's not the question being asked davidn3600 Sep 2016 #86
Re-read my reply. (nt) Heidi Sep 2016 #87
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #91
If ANY person involved says no or is incapacitated, it is rape. So, YES, it is. n/t TygrBright Sep 2016 #83
Entirely possible for both parties to be guilty of rape under today's standards. Nye Bevan Sep 2016 #85
I believe you are correct jberryhill Sep 2016 #96
Similar to, I guess, two drunk drivers who run into each other going closeupready Sep 2016 #98
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #100
Rape under the influence is a crime. Kingofalldems Sep 2016 #101
Correct - if they are both drunk, they are both guilty jberryhill Sep 2016 #114
Correct. .... Am I missing something? Are you objecting to my post? closeupready Sep 2016 #102
A decade ago when i was in college, my fraternity attended a seminar put on by our national Calista241 Sep 2016 #90
People should not have sex with drunk people that they're not in a real relationship with. prayin4rain Sep 2016 #92
I notice that some of the responses to your OP have missed your point ... Whiskeytide Sep 2016 #105
If your son was out cold on the bed and his drunk male roommate penetrated him... Fresh_Start Sep 2016 #109
consensual drunk sex is not rape - period taught_me_patience Sep 2016 #110
Here's where you go off the rails jberryhill Sep 2016 #115
Didn't I also say too drunk to stand or throwing up? taught_me_patience Sep 2016 #116
Good question. deathrind Sep 2016 #111
"Who is being raped?" The one who signs a complaint first. jmg257 Sep 2016 #112
An even more unpopular question: Nevernose Sep 2016 #117
I think the issue is that colleges have their own disciplinary systems, Nye Bevan Sep 2016 #143
That's almost exactly what my daughter told me Nevernose Sep 2016 #158
Considering how difficult it is athena Sep 2016 #121
+1000 DLevine Sep 2016 #124
It is offensive gollygee Sep 2016 #125
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #133
Unprocessed feelings don't disappear. athena Sep 2016 #149
It is obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #136
The answer is always NO until a sober YES is given. Thinkingabout Sep 2016 #126
Sober? So people who have been drinking can't ever have sex? Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #127
What if both people are drunk and incapacitated? Have they both just raped each other? pnwmom Sep 2016 #132
"no sex after ingesting alcohol" seems like a mind-boggling unrealistic standard, no? Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #134
Since alcohol reduces inhibitions, it seems pretty unrealistic. n/t pnwmom Sep 2016 #139
True. Im also talking about what actually happens, out there in the world. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #146
My wife wasn't in the mood but changed her mind after a couple of glasses of wine. Nye Bevan Sep 2016 #142
Pah. My wife has a glass of wine and falls asleep on the couch, that's how exciting we are. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #148
Good thing she's not a fan of DU. closeupready Sep 2016 #153
Folks keep using the word "incapacitated", but I think with very varied meanings. salin Sep 2016 #145
That is a pretty clear case, the Brock Turner thing, to my mind. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #150
Warren, I appreciate your thoughtful posts. salin Sep 2016 #154
I think it's a valuable conversation, but really I think the clear messaging should be around Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #156
Good point. salin Sep 2016 #159
My standard since I was a young guy has MineralMan Sep 2016 #135
Exactly. athena Sep 2016 #147
I remember one time, in my college days. MineralMan Sep 2016 #166
Legally, yes: it is possible for two people to rape one another Recursion Sep 2016 #141
If both are incapacitated then there is no sex. dilby Sep 2016 #144
Good grief folks-don't you know a SPAM post when you see one?? Boxerfan Sep 2016 #152
I say sit back and enjoy the show. Pass the butter. Initech Sep 2016 #157
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #163
This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #164
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