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etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)

36. Eeee gad .... that's why my examples involved 2 men and crimes other than rape

Reply to obamanut2012 (Reply #34)

Thu Sep 29, 2016, 12:41 PM

Sep 2016

... albeit, stealing is far less egregious than rape

Why is it so easy to understand that if someone is really, really drunk its not ok to take money from their wallet or purse ... yet (for some) they can't understand that "sex" with the same individual is rape (regardless of how drunk the perpetrator is).

WtF?

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] Dream Girl Sep 2016 OP

Incapacitated? Define it. Warpy Sep 2016 #1

You are making a couple incorrect assumptions here WestCoastLib Sep 2016 #38

Yes.... mrmpa Sep 2016 #2

NO IS NO Doreen Sep 2016 #3

That's not the issue. If neither one says YES, did either one positively consent? pnwmom Sep 2016 #128

This is a difficult topic that would probably be better served elsewhere than GD Hekate Sep 2016 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #19

First, let me say I liked the "Tea" stick figures. Second... Hekate Sep 2016 #42

If your son is so drunk that he does not know if he is having sex or not INdemo Sep 2016 #104

typically, alcohol is used as an EXCUSE by men when they rape Skittles Sep 2016 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #25

you should be ashamed obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #33

Completely and absolutely disagree with you. It's an EXCELLENT question. closeupready Sep 2016 #40

lolz obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #118

I do too Skittles Sep 2016 #94

thank you!! niyad Sep 2016 #50

the people who claim they don't get it Skittles Sep 2016 #97

yes, it certainly is. niyad Sep 2016 #120

You're not answering the OP's question. If neither one objects to sex, ,but BOTH partners are pnwmom Sep 2016 #129

If neither OBJECTS, then neither SAID NO. It's really that simple. KittyWampus Sep 2016 #160

But if a person is incapacitated, are they capable of giving consent? pnwmom Sep 2016 #161

If neither objects that is a non-factor. It is merely an abstraction and non of your business. KittyWampus Sep 2016 #162

If two guys are drunk (guy A and guy B) .... etherealtruth Sep 2016 #6

WHY DOES GUY A HAVE TO BE TEH ADULT?!11!1 obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #34

Eeee gad .... that's why my examples involved 2 men and crimes other than rape etherealtruth Sep 2016 #36

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Sep 2016 #88

unfortunately, this conversation gets a lot of absolutism on people having sex after drinking Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #7

I think if either partner is incapacitated jamzrockz Sep 2016 #138

Seems you have your answer 6chars Sep 2016 #8

BULLSHIT! Women are always held accountable for their actions and are blamed for what they did Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2016 #53

exactly!!!!! niyad Sep 2016 #59

There are very specific statutes about this. yardwork Sep 2016 #9

I'm sorry to hear that you suffered a sexual assault Orrex Sep 2016 #10

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #16

It's always ugly. Thank you for sharing. Orrex Sep 2016 #17

Teach our sons and men to be responsible...just as pressure is put on girls/women for the same. Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2016 #11

My personal rule is if I think either of us is drunk mythology Sep 2016 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #15

Better question malaise Sep 2016 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #20

No - in these parts parents introduced us to beer and wine malaise Sep 2016 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #14

two people getting drunk and consensually screwing isn't rape geek tragedy Sep 2016 #18

You know it is not that simple jberryhill Sep 2016 #70

both should be treated equally, assuming there's no element of coersion etc. geek tragedy Sep 2016 #93

I think Nye Bevan nails it down thread jberryhill Sep 2016 #95

too drunk to consent but sober enough for a mens rea finding? nt geek tragedy Sep 2016 #106

I'd have to see a relevant sexual assault statute jberryhill Sep 2016 #113

You do need to remember false rape accusations are rare mythology Sep 2016 #24

Exactly. athena Sep 2016 #123

When both are drunk.... demgurl Sep 2016 #48

Your son is terrified of that happening? alcibiades_mystery Sep 2016 #22

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #41

Oh, OK alcibiades_mystery Sep 2016 #44

Well, yeah. Adrahil Sep 2016 #23

Both parties have to be conscience enough to say yes WDIM Sep 2016 #26

conscious Skittles Sep 2016 #103

Conscience works, too. kwassa Sep 2016 #119

My take on it is Else You Are Mad Sep 2016 #27

Jesus Christ ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #28

.... obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #29

Holy Shit ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #32

yuppers obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #35

I would love the context salin Sep 2016 #108

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #45

Saying "no" is not required ... giving consent is required etherealtruth Sep 2016 #68

Your son is only 16? athena Sep 2016 #151

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #66

You mean if two people drink until they black out or are otherwise impaired? ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #99

That's because rape is taken slightly more seriously these days ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #107

Here's what I would say to the young man. haele Sep 2016 #30

This excellent, very cogent and on point. Thank you. Dream Girl Sep 2016 #60

Right. What do you say to the young woman? Can she have sex with a young man pnwmom Sep 2016 #140

Same thing. haele Sep 2016 #155

Come on now gollygee Sep 2016 #31

Not always. Two people could BOTH be drunk and not objecting to sex. Are they raping each other pnwmom Sep 2016 #131

It takes more than just two people not objecting gollygee Sep 2016 #165

My thoughts ArtD48 Sep 2016 #37

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #47

It's not a different standard ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #56

So if a man commits rape while intoxicted ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #54

It reads like that :puke: etherealtruth Sep 2016 #71

It certainly could be. Women rape men, but here on DU, that's unpopular closeupready Sep 2016 #39

What a creative and unsupported allegation! LanternWaste Sep 2016 #43

we see this crap all the time here--and can pretty well predict how quickly it will show up. niyad Sep 2016 #49

Rape is rape ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #57

Rape is rape, yes, agree - members of both genders commit rape. closeupready Sep 2016 #61

Well sure ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #75

Not going to respond to you any further. closeupready Sep 2016 #77

Okey dokey ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #78

This subject causes emotions to run high tymorial Sep 2016 #62

Oh, my - so sorry to hear that. :( closeupready Sep 2016 #76

Thanks but I am okay tymorial Sep 2016 #137

"women are not children"--well, NEITHER ARE MEN!!!!!! you are teaching your son niyad Sep 2016 #46

Exactly ismnotwasm Sep 2016 #51

Yes. Incapacitated people cannot really consent to anything. guillaumeb Sep 2016 #52

as a matter of curiosity, why are you specifically concerned about college rape and not niyad Sep 2016 #55

I was wondering the same thing. WillowTree Sep 2016 #58

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #63

the title of your thread was college rape. was asking why that, specifically, period. niyad Sep 2016 #64

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #72

I am truly sorry for what happened to you, and appreciate that you are trying to make niyad Sep 2016 #73

Suggestion for your son. WillowTree Sep 2016 #65

I'm 48 d_r Sep 2016 #67

In an effort to protect your son, you're using the same old rhetoric... cynatnite Sep 2016 #69

Borrowing a word from religion: AMEN!!!!!!! etherealtruth Sep 2016 #74

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #80

Yes. n/t TygrBright Sep 2016 #84

Yes. n/t cynatnite Sep 2016 #122

it would seem, they both rape each other. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #130

I once awoke in a woman's bedroom, missing my clothing and any recollection of the previous 6 hours. Moostache Sep 2016 #79

If two totally wasted people have consensual sex, there is no way one can call it "rape." rumdude Sep 2016 #82

Ask your son whether it would be rape if a drunk man had sex with him when he was incapacitated Heidi Sep 2016 #81

That's not the question being asked davidn3600 Sep 2016 #86

Re-read my reply. (nt) Heidi Sep 2016 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #91

If ANY person involved says no or is incapacitated, it is rape. So, YES, it is. n/t TygrBright Sep 2016 #83

Entirely possible for both parties to be guilty of rape under today's standards. Nye Bevan Sep 2016 #85

I believe you are correct jberryhill Sep 2016 #96

Similar to, I guess, two drunk drivers who run into each other going closeupready Sep 2016 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #100

Rape under the influence is a crime. Kingofalldems Sep 2016 #101

Correct - if they are both drunk, they are both guilty jberryhill Sep 2016 #114

Correct. .... Am I missing something? Are you objecting to my post? closeupready Sep 2016 #102

A decade ago when i was in college, my fraternity attended a seminar put on by our national Calista241 Sep 2016 #90

People should not have sex with drunk people that they're not in a real relationship with. prayin4rain Sep 2016 #92

I notice that some of the responses to your OP have missed your point ... Whiskeytide Sep 2016 #105

If your son was out cold on the bed and his drunk male roommate penetrated him... Fresh_Start Sep 2016 #109

consensual drunk sex is not rape - period taught_me_patience Sep 2016 #110

Here's where you go off the rails jberryhill Sep 2016 #115

Didn't I also say too drunk to stand or throwing up? taught_me_patience Sep 2016 #116

Good question. deathrind Sep 2016 #111

"Who is being raped?" The one who signs a complaint first. jmg257 Sep 2016 #112

An even more unpopular question: Nevernose Sep 2016 #117

I think the issue is that colleges have their own disciplinary systems, Nye Bevan Sep 2016 #143

That's almost exactly what my daughter told me Nevernose Sep 2016 #158

Considering how difficult it is athena Sep 2016 #121

+1000 DLevine Sep 2016 #124

It is offensive gollygee Sep 2016 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #133

Unprocessed feelings don't disappear. athena Sep 2016 #149

It is obamanut2012 Sep 2016 #136

The answer is always NO until a sober YES is given. Thinkingabout Sep 2016 #126

Sober? So people who have been drinking can't ever have sex? Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #127

What if both people are drunk and incapacitated? Have they both just raped each other? pnwmom Sep 2016 #132

"no sex after ingesting alcohol" seems like a mind-boggling unrealistic standard, no? Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #134

Since alcohol reduces inhibitions, it seems pretty unrealistic. n/t pnwmom Sep 2016 #139

True. Im also talking about what actually happens, out there in the world. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #146

My wife wasn't in the mood but changed her mind after a couple of glasses of wine. Nye Bevan Sep 2016 #142

Pah. My wife has a glass of wine and falls asleep on the couch, that's how exciting we are. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #148

Good thing she's not a fan of DU. closeupready Sep 2016 #153

Folks keep using the word "incapacitated", but I think with very varied meanings. salin Sep 2016 #145

That is a pretty clear case, the Brock Turner thing, to my mind. Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #150

Warren, I appreciate your thoughtful posts. salin Sep 2016 #154

I think it's a valuable conversation, but really I think the clear messaging should be around Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #156

Good point. salin Sep 2016 #159

My standard since I was a young guy has MineralMan Sep 2016 #135

Exactly. athena Sep 2016 #147

I remember one time, in my college days. MineralMan Sep 2016 #166

Legally, yes: it is possible for two people to rape one another Recursion Sep 2016 #141

If both are incapacitated then there is no sex. dilby Sep 2016 #144

Good grief folks-don't you know a SPAM post when you see one?? Boxerfan Sep 2016 #152

I say sit back and enjoy the show. Pass the butter. Initech Sep 2016 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #163

This message was self-deleted by its author Dream Girl Sep 2016 #164