General Discussion

patrice

(47,992 posts)

107. True. We don't know OP's thoughts on class relative to this question. & There are different skill

Wed Jun 20, 2012, 04:56 PM

Jun 2012

levels on this board. Not everyone is as rhetorically advanced as you are. I am defending that fact. Objectivity requires that we find out what is naive and what is disingenuous. I think that is a useful point to the goals of your own, or anyone's, efforts, because the difference between naive and disingenuous is the difference between a potential ally for your goals, or more opposition to y/our goals.

If a person is naive, helping them see the mistakes in their assumptions helps everyone.

I have already decided that OP's previous support of the KKK in that other thread is definite/conclusive support of the KKK, and yes you are right there is nothing in that support which denotes anything about class, but the fact remains that, for all I know, his/her support of the KKK could be as much out of error as it could be out of actual racism and I would rather ask a person to clarify than accuse them without enough information, because if racism is wrong, because any one of us is valuable, then it is wrong because ALL of us are valuable and I'd like to at least give that value a chance to make its own autonomous choices, before I engage in any oppression based on such limited information.

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I did NOT "defend the Klan" [View all] SaB2012 Jun 2012 OP

Happens to many of us from time to time. ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #1

Agreed! n/t hrmjustin Jun 2012 #3

That. DOES. happen. nt patrice Jun 2012 #12

Oh yeah, yesphan Jun 2012 #34

Why are you defending the Klan!! AngryAmish Jun 2012 #70

Funny. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #84

Yes, it unfortunately happens. Some people don't read an entire post, Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #121

Yes, the KKK supported wonderful reforms like the Volstead Act. Popcorn, anyone? slackmaster Jun 2012 #2

Thanks for the straw man SaB2012 Jun 2012 #4

get used to this sort of thing if u plan to stay here - words in your mouth-r-us lol nt msongs Jun 2012 #9

I can't tell what you actually said, because you haven't linked to it or fully quoted yourself slackmaster Jun 2012 #10

Probably not SaB2012 Jun 2012 #19

that is not fair this person never said that they were wonderful. n/t hrmjustin Jun 2012 #27

Always Entertaining To See a Fella Double Down, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2012 #5

No, I didn't SaB2012 Jun 2012 #6

All Terror Organizations Have Political and Social Aims, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2012 #15

But that's not what I did SaB2012 Jun 2012 #18

There Is No Other Reason To State They 'Attempted To Produce Reforms', Sir, But Mitigation The Magistrate Jun 2012 #22

Actually, yes, there is another reason SaB2012 Jun 2012 #25

Again, Fella, You Just Need To Relax, Take In a Show.... The Magistrate Jun 2012 #32

does fox news provide you guys with a fair and balanced primer on logical fallacies now? datasuspect Jun 2012 #33

Don't watch Fox. SaB2012 Jun 2012 #40

To enhace your "complete historical narative" you could also mention bluerum Jun 2012 #76

People call attention to them also when their aim is to shed light on historical context. redgreenandblue Jun 2012 #68

People Who Have Called Me Arrogant And Condescending, Sir, Is Not A Very Exclusive Club.... The Magistrate Jun 2012 #78

Thanks for the context. I have read neither "Birth of Nation" nor said materials. redgreenandblue Jun 2012 #87

Life Is Short, Sir, And Passes On Quickly At My Age.... The Magistrate Jun 2012 #89

There does seem to be a noticable age gap here at DU. redgreenandblue Jun 2012 #97

Or just simple identify speculation as speculation. Absolutes are highly improbable, admit the patrice Jun 2012 #102

"Granted, I read only this thread and not the original one" <--- I wish you'd typed that first, apocalypsehow Jun 2012 #80

to say "hitler was popular because he promised..." is rather different from saying "hitler was a HiPointDem Jun 2012 #94

This is a Meta OP -- you need to post it there obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #7

Okay. Sorry. SaB2012 Jun 2012 #16

I'm not completely sure what all happened (and I'm NOT going to go read it all), but people may have patrice Jun 2012 #8

What happened SaB2012 Jun 2012 #13

k. Carry on. I do find it interesting that the KKK got so huge so quickly and then very quickly ALSO patrice Jun 2012 #44

same reason the tea party got so huge. it was funded in a climate of tax cuts, immigration contro- HiPointDem Jun 2012 #62

Despite the fact that at least SOME Tea Partyers, at least at some point, had more authentic patrice Jun 2012 #67

Sorry about all of those "at least"s; trying to think about ranges of possibilities here and various patrice Jun 2012 #69

we're not talking about the motivations of individual kkk members. we're talking about the kkk HiPointDem Jun 2012 #74

Good point. Wholes are almost always more than the sum of their parts and there are those who, like patrice Jun 2012 #105

'Essentially correct'. NO, You said this statement 'ACTUALLY IS TRUE' ProgressiveEconomist Jun 2012 #45

In other words, WHERE THERE'S SMOKE, THERE'S FIRE. ProgressiveEconomist Jun 2012 #55

Hell, the trains ran on time in Nazi Germany too datasuspect Jun 2012 #11

But stating that Germany's trains ran on time SaB2012 Jun 2012 #14

It was actually Mussolini who made the trains run on time slackmaster Jun 2012 #17

Careful SaB2012 Jun 2012 #20

In all fairness, I was defending the Italian Fascists slackmaster Jun 2012 #56

You should be embarrassed for making that comparison. n/t Dawgs Jun 2012 #21

Why? datasuspect Jun 2012 #23

Thank you I had the same question n/t HangOnKids Jun 2012 #29

Thanks. I always worry about questions we are not allowed to raise. If there's some rational reason patrice Jun 2012 #37

still trying to figure out what i said datasuspect Jun 2012 #38

HOLY SHIT!!!! SaB2012 Jun 2012 #42

no questions were raised. the poster asserted that the kkk was a social reform outfit, as HiPointDem Jun 2012 #66

k. thanks. Do you mind giving me the post #? I MUST get out of here and into my email. tks! nt patrice Jun 2012 #72

s/he makes the claim repeatedly in the thread. as do a few others, though not so persistently. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #75

Okay, yes, SaB2012 conclusively defended the KKK. That's either naive argumentation or disingenuous. patrice Jun 2012 #95

For comparing the Klan to the Nazis? Really? Lucy Goosey Jun 2012 #39

Question SaB2012 Jun 2012 #28

bless your heart datasuspect Jun 2012 #30

Just going by your and others' example, dude SaB2012 Jun 2012 #35

there have been many others before you datasuspect Jun 2012 #36

Post removed Post removed Jun 2012 #41

P.S. I do appreciate an effort to separate the authentic wheat from the chads amongst populist patrice Jun 2012 #24

Hanging chads? :) SaB2012 Jun 2012 #26

It was a pun on our completely fucked up voting mechanism, i.e. the source of practially everything patrice Jun 2012 #31

"A pun, a play on words� There�s only one word, how much play could there be?" Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2012 #88

k. an allusion. patrice Jun 2012 #96

Well, uh� I meant it to be a parable. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2012 #100

Yes, a narrative about in-determinance, chads:chaff, actual racists:guilt-by-ignorance patrice Jun 2012 #101

It would be more accurate to say they engaged in regressive social deconstruction. bluerum Jun 2012 #43

Good point: All reform may desconstruct, but not all deconstruction is reform. nt patrice Jun 2012 #47

gosh, & you've got a lot of low-post posters defending you too. yeah, those kkk social reformers, HiPointDem Jun 2012 #46

I live in a state in which the Eisenhower Republicans are horrified by our Teapublican governor, patrice Jun 2012 #54

while your points are well-taken concerning politics, they have less relevance to disingenuous HiPointDem Jun 2012 #57

Maybe my standards of "proof" as to "disingenuousness" are higher than some - OR - patrice Jun 2012 #64

there's nothing class-based about it. & the kkk was started by the upper-class, not the lower. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #77

And that's not class?! Drive through the South today and tell me what kinds of yards have patrice Jun 2012 #99

i'm saying that this poster's defense of the kkk has nothing to do with class. if you want to HiPointDem Jun 2012 #104

True. We don't know OP's thoughts on class relative to this question. & There are different skill patrice Jun 2012 #107

In short, low posters are not necessarily KKK supporters or trolls. nt patrice Jun 2012 #58

no one said low posters were necessarily kkk supporters or trolls. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #60

Check out my post below, MadHound Jun 2012 #108

I'm sure Hitler was a pretty nice guy as well, if you just got to know him Hugabear Jun 2012 #48

Enjoyed Jelly Omletes, Sir, A Vegetarian: What is Not To Like...? The Magistrate Jun 2012 #49

That former Klansman Robert Byrd, too. An Exalted Cyclops, no less. Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #73

He Joined Young, Sir, He Quit, He Apologized The Magistrate Jun 2012 #81

I don't like it when people defend someone who almost certainly participated Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #92

For That Statement, Sir, there is Absolutely No Evidence At All The Magistrate Jun 2012 #120

he quit the klan & renounced it. the poster is defending the klan as an organization. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #83

Why are you interrupting the vagina threads with this crap? retread Jun 2012 #50

Haha! Inkfreak Jun 2012 #98

Welcome to DU, Inkfreak pinboy3niner Jun 2012 #103

We tend to under-analyze hate groups as just being "evil" Dash87 Jun 2012 #51

1+++++++ patrice Jun 2012 #111

Well, gosh. Starry Messenger Jun 2012 #52

You are a noob who got locked out of their own thread for using a homophobic slur Jamastiene Jun 2012 #53

And has a rec from a poster who had a weird "gay" thread of their own a few days ago HangOnKids Jun 2012 #59

Is there a link to the thread in question? NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #61

Check No. 45 Above, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2012 #63

Thank you, Sir NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #82

here. i just kicked it to pg 1 as well, for everyone's edification. he's not the only one. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #65

Just read it and some of the stuff posted there is very troubling NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #79

They also want adopt a highway in Georgia. Dr. Strange Jun 2012 #71

"Georgia: Land of Lakes, Mountains, Scenic Beauty, Friendly People...." Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2012 #91

I believe that should read, "my interpretation of known historical facts..." LanternWaste Jun 2012 #85

To be fair, Hitler did make a hell of an automobile. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2012 #86

The Barbie Museum! Dr. Strange Jun 2012 #90

This thread has breastfeeding pitbulls eating cornflake chicken at Olive Garden written all over it. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2012 #93

You made the mistake of going against the popular political narrative MadHound Jun 2012 #106

I believe Jefferson Cowie more-or-less agrees with your point: patrice Jun 2012 #110

+1000 GeorgeGist Jun 2012 #112

So. You're a white supremacist, too. Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #116

If you love them so much, ithinkmyliverhurts Jun 2012 #109

Unfortunately knee jerks are quite vocal on DU. GeorgeGist Jun 2012 #113

Hey SaB2012 (Jay McHue) , Is this your blog? Vanje Jun 2012 #114

Is this your twitter ? Vanje Jun 2012 #115

He's dead, Jim pinboy3niner Jun 2012 #117

They did it to get gullible fools to join them DevonRex Jun 2012 #118

And Mussolini was a reformer... RagAss Jun 2012 #119

Too bad you're DOA already. cliffordu Jun 2012 #122

I'm going to further spoil the fun by locking this thread. scarletwoman Jun 2012 #123

Yes, the poster of this OP is now among the departed, however, this OP never met the SOP of GD scarletwoman Jun 2012 #124