General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,697 posts)

22. I don't have an opinion one way or the other as to whether someone should wear a hijab.

Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:28 PM

Dec 2016

I believe every woman has the right to make that choice for herself.

What I find offensive is the OPs refusal to believe a woman who says she has made a free choice (whatever that choice is) (1) without evidence (2) because it isn't a logical choice or (3) because some other women don't have a choice. Oh - but wait - the OP is only making those demands of women who make a different choice than the one the OP has designated as logical.

"Real live" was perhaps a poor choice of words, but what I am suggesting is that the OP actually strike up a friendship with women who have actually made a choice and have some one-on-one conversations about the choice - rather than pretend to support choice, but reject that choice as lying or not logical or not freely made without ever actually sitting down and having a real conversation with anyone who has wrestled with the choice.

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I was thinking about the issues surrounding the hijab yesterday [View all] Coventina Dec 2016 OP

There are no veils between God and oppressed worshippers in Islam. MADem Dec 2016 #1

Do you feel the way Tibetan Buddhist monks dress is bogus and unreasonably ostentatious? pangaia Dec 2016 #26

I think all religious garb is attention-seeking. MADem Dec 2016 #37

Fashion and grooming in general are sexist and unhealthy HoneyBadger Dec 2016 #2

Someone hasn't seen any recent issues of Men's Health, I take it? MADem Dec 2016 #60

I find it equally insulting to men, implying... TreasonousBastard Dec 2016 #3

I think the hijab is sexist and oppressive. However, I would fight to the death for Squinch Dec 2016 #4

Agree completely that anything that hides the identity of a person should be outlawed. Coventina Dec 2016 #5

Slavery is inherently not a choice. Ms. Toad Dec 2016 #8

Yea...nope. Squinch Dec 2016 #17

Yes. cwydro Dec 2016 #9

You seem to be intentionally twisting what the Muslim women I have spoken to Ms. Toad Dec 2016 #6

I am not intentionally twisting anything. This is what I was told by a Muslim woman who said she Coventina Dec 2016 #7

But you're imposing your narrow restrictions on the broad principle she stated. Ms. Toad Dec 2016 #10

Why is it that these supposed "choices" are suspiciously all male centered? Coventina Dec 2016 #12

It is up to each Muslim woman - lesbian or not. Ms. Toad Dec 2016 #15

I put "choice" in scare quotes because I happen to NOT believe it truly is a choice. Coventina Dec 2016 #16

Then why pretend to support individual choice Ms. Toad Dec 2016 #18

What is a real live Muslim woman. romanic Dec 2016 #19

I don't have an opinion one way or the other as to whether someone should wear a hijab. Ms. Toad Dec 2016 #22

Having followed your discussion here, pangaia Dec 2016 #27

You consistently focus on little straw men of your own design. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #38

Nope. I support all kinds of choices I don't approve of. Coventina Dec 2016 #20

When they tell you they are making a free choice, as the woman you mentioned did Ms. Toad Dec 2016 #21

That would be all very well and good, if it weren't for the fact that millions of women get murdered Coventina Dec 2016 #23

So because many women are raped, Ms. Toad Dec 2016 #24

You are placing all kinds of words in my mouth that were never there. Coventina Dec 2016 #29

You are incredibly brave for posting this. cwydro Dec 2016 #31

It maybe a free choice, but it being a free choice doesn't unshackle it from the misogyny.. JHan Dec 2016 #34

True. A burka or face veils purpose is to disappear women from society and having any power therein. stevenleser Dec 2016 #48

"All of these "choices" that you seem to think are so freely made just do not hold up to any logical stevenleser Dec 2016 #25

Thank you. I just don't understand why that is so difficult to see. n/t Coventina Dec 2016 #30

She cannot really speak for anyone other than herself. MADem Dec 2016 #49

Well, I really don't know what to say about that, except that she was from our local Islamic Coventina Dec 2016 #51

Trump talks a lot, too, but that doesn't mean what he says is true. MADem Dec 2016 #53

Yes, I totally agree. When I pondered her reasoning after the talk, the logic just didn't hold up Coventina Dec 2016 #54

Oh, it absolutely IS taught. Carefully, too (Like the song from South Pacific) MADem Dec 2016 #56

So here's my next question: why are some liberals (see this thread) so DETERMINED to defend it? Coventina Dec 2016 #57

Because they don't understand it and don't have meaningful conversations with anyone who MADem Dec 2016 #58

This: guillaumeb Dec 2016 #55

The hijab also isnt religiously mandated Arazi Dec 2016 #11

True, and this is why some devout Muslim women do not wear any head covering. Coventina Dec 2016 #13

There are no veils between supplicants and Allah. nt MADem Dec 2016 #50

I have truly bifurcated feelings about the hijab etherealtruth Dec 2016 #14

That is one confused argument bhikkhu Dec 2016 #28

I totally agree with you for the most part. Coventina Dec 2016 #32

Not a fan of it but if it is voluntary it is the woman's right. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2016 #33

Question for those who are defending the hijab as a choice Jake Stern Dec 2016 #35

The hijab is an emblem frogmarch Dec 2016 #36

The last thing a "wearer" needs is your look of disgust. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #40

Yeah, for sure. frogmarch Dec 2016 #42

What other victims of male dominated and oppressive religions earn your look of disgust? nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #43

Willing ones. frogmarch Dec 2016 #45

Now it makes sense. You lack understanding of oppression. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #46

Many Catholic women will go to the confessional.... NCTraveler Dec 2016 #39

I totally agree that all three Abrahamic faiths are full of sexism, misogyny, racism and violence. Coventina Dec 2016 #41

Women appear naked in front of their husbands (and vice versa), but most... LAS14 Dec 2016 #44

My point is that when you drill down beneath the surface "reasons" Coventina Dec 2016 #47

Forced to wear it get the red out Dec 2016 #52

It's more complicated than you can imagine... there are women who wear it for cultural reasons JCMach1 Dec 2016 #59